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madmole

Alpha 19 Dev Diary

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52 minutes ago, madmole said:

If you are mining on less than 50% food, then I have to question your priorities and actions. How hard is it to read the stats on items and notice the stamina, or stamina regen qualities they have and utilize them? Its like potions in skyrim it isn't rocket science. We're failing? You are failing to read and live by the laws of the game, which aren't as bad as you make them out to be. Why should you be able to mine endlessly with a heavy iron tool as a noob?
 

It all makes sense eventually, but there are multiple complex systems in this game and new players won't have a frame of reference for what those values mean until they start using that item in the world. The numbers are arbitrary, so I still have no idea what a +5 heat resist shirt actually means for me, other than it's better than a +2 shirt I'm already wearing.

 

Maybe if a player runs out of stamina X times per X minutes (new players stuck in a frustrating loop), a journal entry on "Stamina Management For Dummies" pops up until they actually open it, which explains they can reduce the drain with perks, temporary buffs, or mods. Or the game could check the viability of a tool using a basic calculation, and if a player fails the minToolViablity check then include a warning on the stats page like "This tool looks heavy in your weak arms and will be unwieldy" so they don't spend all their money on a shiny tool from the trader without knowing it will kick their @%$*#!. Small little quality of life changes that would help point new players in the right direction without annoying veteran players with intrusive pop ups.

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1 hour ago, Adam the Waster said:

damn i didn't know that! i don't understand some items ingame, mostly with items with limited uses. Take snow berry's and Testosterone extract!

Snow berries had a use but have been fazed out! what could they be used for? More meds! Pain killers, injections and other medical items! but right now they don't have much of a use!

 

Testo extract has 2 USES. Steroids but i don't craft them due to me finding them more then Extract and cigars! thats it! what could it be used for? I don't know!

Snowberries have a use again in A19. Early game food. Smash em with your stone axe as you walk by and snack on them. It's pretty easy to gather 20 or so a day of not more without spending any extra time doing so. That's a couple of steaks worth of food for free. And yes I did mean to say WALK by, don't run 100% of the time and you won't need the massive amounts of food people are complaining about.

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, JCrook1028 said:

Snowberries have a use again in A19. Early game food. Smash em with your stone axe as you walk by and snack on them. It's pretty easy to gather 20 or so a day of not more without spending any extra time doing so. That's a couple of steaks worth of food for free. And yes I did mean to say WALK by, don't run 100% of the time and you won't need the massive amounts of food people are complaining about.

i thought they were poisonous....

 

but i guess thats a use. 

 

Also just the stone axe?

Edited by Adam the Waster (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, madmole said:

there are 5000 ways to make mining easier, stop trying to change my  mind about something I tested 500 hours and is good already, instead spend 10 minutes learning how to work around the issue, its much more rewarding than arguing with me I assure you :)

Sure there are, and I know most of them. Again, I am not the one with the problem (though I can understand why you might think so). YOU spent 500 hours testing. You didn't get 50 1-10 hour players testing the first 5-10 hours of A19 for you yet. I'm telling you, I've got a 10-20 hour player here that is frustrated because your mechanics aren't clear. If she were totally brand new it might be different, but even then it'd be frustrating.

 

And yes, we're mining on 50% food, because we don't have a choice. Your own team members are telling you food is rough in MP. What are we supposed to do, completely ignore that there's a horde night coming? Or do we mine for gunpowder to try and survive it?

Edited by bobross (see edit history)

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1 minute ago, Adam the Waster said:

i thought they were poisonous....

 

but i guess thats a use. 

 

Also just the stone axe?

Read the snowberries' stats .... they are not poisonous anymore. Never assume things are the same in Alpha changes. Read and learn. :)

 

I use the stone axe and smack the little wood bushes as I walk/run by, free wood. Also use it for tearing down the nests for the extra feathers. and for berries. Even grass if nothing else as I go. Yes I even pick up the loose stones along my path. Free stone with no extra time involved. USE that walking/running time! They all have a use and xp attached and the stone axe is so cheap to repair it is the tool for the job. This is all early game stuff.

3 minutes ago, bobross said:

Sure there are, and I know most of them. Again, I am not the one with the problem (though I can understand why you might think so). YOU spent 500 hours testing. You didn't get 50 1-10 hour players testing the first 5-10 hours of A19 for you yet. I'm telling you, I've got a 10-20 hour player here that is frustrated because your mechanics aren't clear. If she were totally brand new it might be different, but even then it'd be frustrating.

 

And yes, we're mining on 50% food, because we don't have a choice. Your own team members are telling you food is rough in MP. What are we supposed to do, completely ignore that there's a horde night coming? Or do we mine for gunpowder to try and survive it?

You're panicking and killing yourselves to prep for a fairly benign D7 horde..... Maybe try calming and teaching your newbs instead of reinforcing their perceived problems?

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2 hours ago, bobross said:

I love ya Madmole, but sometimes I wonder. Do you really think I'd be in here saying early game A19 is too rough for newbies if the reasoning was they can't use the Blue Iron Pickaxe I found for them?

 

Our newb is our second miner. She had points in Miner 69er before I did and made the (orange) pickaxes we're currently using. She is angry and frustrated by the fact that she cannot use the tool she spent her first perk point to enable her to make worth a damn. She is frustrated that there is nothing saying "iron tool mining won't work unless you're overeating and drinking coffee" anywhere in the game. She accepts that I'm correct about it, but here we are very early Day 6 with nowhere near enough food for us to keep uniformly above the 50% hunger mark, and she can either "mine endlessly with a stone axe" and take 3+ times as long to break down a block, or she can take a 5 second pause after every block.

 

You want this game to bring in new players, then you need to make sure they can figure out how to play the game without coming to the forums. Right now, for mining, you are failing at that objective.

 

EDIT: 3 times as long was a pick from a hat, but it's close. 13 seconds vs. 29 seconds for iron pickaxe vs. stone axe. Except for the running out of stamina part, anyhow, that pushes it to 2 times as long.

The problem is that your friend is essentially asking for TFP to never change the game. That’s not going to happen as long as the game is in alpha. Your friend rushed iron tools because that worked in 18.4. That’s no longer a good idea in A19. Until you have 2-3 points in Sex-Rex, iron tools will be rough to use. With one point in Sex-Rex, you have solid stamina with stone tools.  Two in sex-Rex will make it bearable to use iron tools provided you are keeping your water level up and aren’t wearing stamina draining armor. 

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Green stone axe + 2 mods is pretty nice and pretty obtainable during the first week. No real need to rush to an orange iron pickaxe. 

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hey MM, I read back there that you are considering level looting the higher end schematics. Are you considering doing that for t2 mods as well? t2 being the customized fitting mods v's the improved fitting mods, etc. I am finding the t2 gas tanks and mods on day 3 is why I am asking, I woulda thought finding t1 mods early would been the best I could hope for.

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2 hours ago, madmole said:

When its done. Sorry but I can't give timelines and educated guesses are historically late.

I found a Fire station with a "White River" flag right at the front... I was wandering if those new POIs are the ones we'll be defending, rebuilding or fortifying in the coming quests for the WR story-line. 🤔

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, madmole said:

However the guys all tell me in MP they are starving early game so I can sympathize with some kind of solution, but in SP I'm always swimming in food once I'm past the first week.

 

This is exactly my experience - in co-op, it's a constant food hunt at the moment (will improve once the farm is producing decent amounts and perks offset food drain) but in single player my pantry is looking pretty sweet. I'll still need to pay attention to my food situation in SP more than in the past, and I have to invest the right perks to keep things comfortable, but it's not desperate like co-op is currently. Honestly, in co-op we'd probably already be dead if not for the 4 nearby vending machines. LOL My nightly duty is to make the vending run at 21:00.

 

A few days ago, I was ready to do some ugly crying about this. But I held off from posting much about it, and I'm glad I took a wait-and-see approach. It's horribly annoying in early days, yes, but it feels like by the time we're about 10 or so days in, things in co-op should be on fairly equal footing with SP. SP will still have the advantage of only one person to feed, but MP has the advantage of splitting up the responsibilities so that once you get over the initial hump, each of our respective builds will be stronger because we don't have to spread out as many points on support skills to get self-sufficient. Shared quests also means double rewards so that when food is available, we can buy more of it.

 

I feel like it all will work out after enough looting, leveling, and adapting. I don't really know how to convince people to hang in long enough to get there. I also feel like some new players don't get that your very first playthrough in this game is probably going to be a mess and that's okay! That's how we learn to get better!

 

Edited to add: Just saw your tavern! I love it!

Edited by Mahnogard
added (see edit history)

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Is there anything that can be done to dynamically adjust the game time progression?

 

As an example, we have maybe 10 or so players that play on the server.  One or 2 of them play off hours from the rest.  When either group logs in, there could be several days have passed (sometimes a week or more if we have a player going nuts).  Sure, we could tell them "don't play this great game so much!", but... not really what we want to do.

 

It would be nice if we could set something so that if the game time progression was slower the fewer people that were online, etc.

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1 hour ago, bobross said:

Sure there are, and I know most of them. Again, I am not the one with the problem (though I can understand why you might think so). YOU spent 500 hours testing. You didn't get 50 1-10 hour players testing the first 5-10 hours of A19 for you yet. I'm telling you, I've got a 10-20 hour player here that is frustrated because your mechanics aren't clear. If she were totally brand new it might be different, but even then it'd be frustrating.

 

And yes, we're mining on 50% food, because we don't have a choice. Your own team members are telling you food is rough in MP. What are we supposed to do, completely ignore that there's a horde night coming? Or do we mine for gunpowder to try and survive it?

While i can not speak for the Pimps, I've been here long enough to know that they usually do what is best for the players while trying to maintain the integrity of their game.

You're suggesting they rebalance the entire game around 5-10 hour players. Thats ludicrous for both a game in development so long and for a survival game. I dare you to start any other survival game, scratch that ANY other game at all, where at some point you dont either need to ask advice or do a slight bit of research either through youtube or asking teammates for help.

 

Your suggestions would decimate challenge in mod-late game. I know some here love to have it all week 1 and be worry free the rest of their time but I trust that this is not what the guys in charge are looking for.

Instead of coming here asking for them t change the game for your friend and group try to assist them, explain to them. There was a time when we had grid crafting and no recipe list via ingredient and had to research everything. 7 Days has always been a bit of a thinking game. If your friend s not enjoying it it is because you may not be doing your part to help them enjoy it.

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are the piles of cement or cobblestone affected by any of the resource gathering perks?

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2 minutes ago, wolfbain5 said:

are the piles of cement or cobblestone affected by any of the resource gathering perks?

Nope. I believe the stone and wood piles are though.

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Posted (edited)

I just want to give thanks to TFP for refining combat. Whether I use a club, knuckles, a sledge, a knife, a spear, or a baton, I am combat capable, hell even with my bare fists I can clear POI's; Because they have refined the animations and hit boxes so much that it actually feels like each blow, regardless of weapon choice, has impact. I was extremely dissatisfied with combat in Alpha 18, but alpha 19 seems truly flawless in that regard. I am extremely grateful for the hard work they've put into making the game not only more beautiful, but more playable. I hope you guys make very little changes to combat in the future. My favorite build, believe it or not, is agility, because I find the knife to be such a smooth and stamina-efficient weapon. 10 stamina per power attack, 3 headshots to kill a female, 4 to kill a male, 6 to kill a tank; Extremely fast, accurate, it FEELS like a knife. The club FEELS like a club. No longer are the days of some weapons feeling Jankier than others; Their work shines through so beautifully in this alpha, and I'm extremely proud of the entire development team, because I know I wasn't the only player to throw a hissyfit in Alpha 18 because of the combat. I can't praise Alpha 19 enough for how much of a different beast it seems to be. 7 Days to Die is reaching the potential we all saw way back when, and it is SO damn satisfying to see. We love you TFP team, and I'm sorry that I personally wasn't patient with you and accused you of ruining combat in Alpha 18. It's easy to forget that it's still in development, and it's easy to forget that it's your baby, and that you guys aren't going to raise it wrong because you love it as much as we do. Rock on TFP, and keep kickin' butt, zombie slayers \m/ Especially you Kage, lol. If I have one criticism about Alpha 19, it's that Trader Jen looked better before you plugged a tire-pump into her tits XD I miss the old model, it seemed less sexualized and more human. Food for thought!

Edited by Trunks_Budo (see edit history)
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15 minutes ago, Trunks_Budo said:

Trader Jen looked better before you plugged a tire-pump into her tits XD I miss the old model, it seemed less sexualized and more human. Food for thought!

The guy that designed her model was inspired in his wife and his wife is human I assume so...yeah.

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59 minutes ago, Trekkan said:

Is there anything that can be done to dynamically adjust the game time progression?

 

As an example, we have maybe 10 or so players that play on the server.  One or 2 of them play off hours from the rest.  When either group logs in, there could be several days have passed (sometimes a week or more if we have a player going nuts).  Sure, we could tell them "don't play this great game so much!", but... not really what we want to do.

 

It would be nice if we could set something so that if the game time progression was slower the fewer people that were online, etc.

Not sure why you need to adjust. Both loot and zombie spawn is based on the player GameStage, while does not increase while the player is away. There are only things like airdrops, crop growth and trader/loot respawn that are based on server days. If your lower level players are feeling left behind, I would simply suggest they can make and maintain their own base. There is room on most maps for 2 or 3 groups of people to be spread out in different areas without running into each other too much.

31 minutes ago, wolfbain5 said:

are the piles of cement or cobblestone affected by any of the resource gathering perks?

Possibly Miner69er? But not sure.

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3 hours ago, JCrook1028 said:

You're panicking and killing yourselves to prep for a fairly benign D7 horde..... Maybe try calming and teaching your newbs instead of reinforcing their perceived problems?

Have you done MP A19 Horde Night yet? We haven't. We've had Feral Wights and Cops on Day 7, Radiateds on Day 14, and Demolishers in quantity on Day 21 in A18. Sure they've nerfed the MP horde nights. I don't buy it until we've experienced it, repeatedly.

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hum Z cop who breaks block in the line :

 

 

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1 hour ago, JaxTeller718 said:

While i can not speak for the Pimps, I've been here long enough to know that they usually do what is best for the players while trying to maintain the integrity of their game.

You're suggesting they rebalance the entire game around 5-10 hour players. Thats ludicrous for both a game in development so long and for a survival game. I dare you to start any other survival game, scratch that ANY other game at all, where at some point you dont either need to ask advice or do a slight bit of research either through youtube or asking teammates for help.

 

Your suggestions would decimate challenge in mod-late game. I know some here love to have it all week 1 and be worry free the rest of their time but I trust that this is not what the guys in charge are looking for.

Instead of coming here asking for them t change the game for your friend and group try to assist them, explain to them. There was a time when we had grid crafting and no recipe list via ingredient and had to research everything. 7 Days has always been a bit of a thinking game. If your friend s not enjoying it it is because you may not be doing your part to help them enjoy it.

I am NOT suggesting they rebalance the game around 5-10 hour players, and I don't know what I need to do to get that point across to people. I am providing feedback from a newish player who is frustrated with their game. I have gone out of my way to state I think that this will be net beneficial late game and am suggesting that MAYBE something pointing out that YOU NEED TO EAT HIGH END FOODS TO MINE EFFECTIVELY MIGHT BE A GOOD IDEA.

 

I've been gaming for 40 damned years now. I've done it the hard way, and there is a way to make it challenging without breaking new players as they walk in the door. I am not asking them to rebalance everything on the basis of Day 6 of a playthrough of a new Alpha. I am saying that, if they are balancing one system around the function of a completely DIFFERENT system, I think they need to do a better job of making that very clear to players.

 

I am not coming here asking for a fix, I'm providing the Pimps feedback. I've noticed in the past (like, when we were getting 17+ demolishers on a Day 21 horde night) that getting the idea that a problem exists through to Madmole's - ESPECIALLY when it's a problem in Multiplayer - requires additional effort because he doesn't play MP. This is obviously not to that level, but it'd be nice if some consideration of how much a minor alteration in food availability might impact a particular playstyle. It's balanced fine in SP, but when you've gotta feed 5 people out of the same rough area, balancing around food becomes problematic.

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4 hours ago, Adam the Waster said:

After the patch. i updated this morning!

 

Had a blood moon going on, and i had to scrap my bed for Springs! i forgot to place a bedrole, went though the blood moon, died once, had to run back, and everything worked fine. until i had to go help my mom and i shut down my PC. came back, booted up game and a roaming horde came and all my Wires and engines were gone!

 

I hope you shut down the game BEFORE shutting down the PC.

 

1 hour ago, Trankitas said:

The guy that designed her model was inspired in his wife and his wife is human I assume so...yeah.

 

Her? The old or the new one?

 

 

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