Alpha 19 Dev Diary

[diegodgo87]

6 minutes ago, requiemdios said:

May I suggest to the folks saying that certain game mechanics make the game unrealistic find another word. Its a zombie game. Maybe just say you don't like the game mechanic. 

Yeah, it is a zombie game, but I like some realistic things, like finding food in kitchens and parts in a car, you don't open a Messiah shotgun box expecting food you expect weapons, ammo or mods. The same way you can not  open a Working stiff sealed box and find stone tools, the suggestion of removing stone tools from this crates for early game don't sound too bad.

[Laz Man]

I get why the stone age stuff are in boxes for gameplay balance but it still hurts my immersion a bit.  Probably because our loot containers are shiny sealed remnant boxes from the past...at least that's how I perceive them.

 

I'm sure I will get over it but it would be nice if it were done a different way. (I'm sure easier said then done)

 

A) stone weapons/tools moved to other more immersive loot containers (e.g. back packs, weapons bags, tool bag, etc.)

 

[madmole]

5 hours ago, Gazz said:

You can mod the game so that store crates only drop steel tools.

I absolutely agree that iron/stone tools in such a loot container are highly unrealistic. (like it currently is in A18)

 

By using that mod you just have to accept that realistically there will only be one tier of items in the game. /shrug

Steel tools are completely unrealistic now though. All the top end guns are made from scrap parts and duct taped together. So finding those in a sealed box at a store doesn't make sense supposedly... but it does because gun stores deal in used/modded weapons, and anyone can take a crate and reuse it.

I don't think its unrealistic, you just have to be a landlord for a few months to see what people actually do IRL. I found 4 pallets of sealed wrapped with plastic dog food in the basement of a house I owned. Like the tenant literally put the pallet down there then carried all the dog food and stacked it nice and then wrapped it in plastic because there was no way in hell a loaded pallet would fit down those stairs. People re-use containers all the time. Maybe the Duke likes all the items organized and boxed up before it gets put in his warehouse so his bandits get things ready before loading the trucks, zombies come along... really people you just have to use your imagination, the apocalypse has probably been going on 5 years already when the player spawns.

5 hours ago, Khalagar said:

 

It's so bad it's a meme, even on the dev stream you could tell by Lathan and Rick's reactions they knew it was pretty much a waste of time to even try it. Even the full bow is only okayish. The bow is in a pretty weird spot. It competes against the Pistol for use in it's own tree, and loses badly. The only advantage the bow has is explosive ammo, but actual explosives from the perception tree are better. In fact, the hunting rifle from the perception tree is better than the crossbow too . . .

 

I do think bows need a bit of a TLC update, I think most players would rather have a level 3 pistol than a level 5 compound bow or compound crossbow, and that's a problem. I tried doing a crossbow build in A18 and even with perk investment and a level 5 compound crossbow, I literally couldn't find a use for it that my level 2 unperked hunting rifle didn't do 10 times better.

 

Compound bow is kinda where where the Wooden bow needs to be damage wise imo, and primitive bow is just bad, I can't think of a single situation where a primitive bow is worth building over just crafting 4-5 spears and throwing those instead

 

 

Bow does 3.5x sneak damage with no perks. You just have to know how to use it.

[diegodgo87]

2 minutes ago, madmole said:

the apocalypse has probably been going on 5 years already when the player spawns.

And we still are eating the food? as new player didn't know that, damn start cooking my own food instead Expired Sham can

[madmole]

37 minutes ago, Guppycur said:

C'mon gazz, finding hand made stone tools in a sealed crate is kinda dumb for both realism and gameplay.

 

...just remove the stone tools from the tables (the easy out) or remove the ability to infinitely repair tools (like you had in the past) so those iron/steel tools were only a temporary boon. 

 

Bonus, the latter would encourage looting /and/ increase excitement when finding more of the same.

That would encourage a min maxing type of stupid strategy guide game play... "Oh don't open that loot container yet wait until you are a higher level" kind of crap. Honestly stone tools of high quality are kind of nice to find.

If the entire world knee jerks over stone tools, we can do something about it. This is a first pass at getting an actual primitive stage in the game.

[Damocles]

Would be interesting to know what the actual timeline should be.

Canned food can survive 5 years. But a lot of buildings have damages that look way older, and some are very pristine.

 

Is there some time-since-the-apocalypse that you aim for in the design?

[Adam the Waster]

42 minutes ago, Guppycur said:

C'mon gazz, finding hand made stone tools in a sealed crate is kinda dumb for both realism and gameplay.

 

...just remove the stone tools from the tables (the easy out) or remove the ability to infinitely repair tools (like you had in the past) so those iron/steel tools were only a temporary boon. 

 

Bonus, the latter would encourage looting /and/ increase excitement when finding more of the same.

lets just wait. you never know how it will go!

[Laz Man]

15 minutes ago, madmole said:

Steel tools are completely unrealistic now though. All the top end guns are made from scrap parts and duct taped together. So finding those in a sealed box at a store doesn't make sense supposedly... but it does because gun stores deal in used/modded weapons, and anyone can take a crate and reuse it.

I don't think its unrealistic, you just have to be a landlord for a few months to see what people actually do IRL. I found 4 pallets of sealed wrapped with plastic dog food in the basement of a house I owned. Like the tenant literally put the pallet down there then carried all the dog food and stacked it nice and then wrapped it in plastic because there was no way in hell a loaded pallet would fit down those stairs. People re-use containers all the time. Maybe the Duke likes all the items organized and boxed up before it gets put in his warehouse so his bandits get things ready before loading the trucks, zombies come along... really people you just have to use your imagination, the apocalypse has probably been going on 5 years already when the player spawns.

Bow does 3.5x sneak damage with no perks. You just have to know how to use it.

It is what it is.  But it was just my first reaction to it.

 

The stoneage stuff looted do seem to be an upgrade to what the player currently has so its not all bad.  Will just need taking getting use to.  You could replaace the texture on all the branded sealed crates with something more worn/cobbled together and it might be enough to maintain the immersion.  Not sure the work is worth it or not, just sharing with you my first impressions of it and a possible solution...

 

At the end of the day its a minor detail and A19 is still so much awesome.

[Adam the Waster]

2 minutes ago, madmole said:

That would encourage a min maxing type of stupid strategy guide game play... "Oh don't open that loot container yet wait until you are a higher level" kind of crap. Honestly stone tools of high quality are kind of nice to find.

If the entire world knee jerks over stone tools, we can do something about it. This is a first pass at getting an actual primitive stage in the game.

i 101% support the stone age.

 

 

for me it was so easy to go from using stone axe to Iron pick and everything else.

 

and also i saw that you can get arrows from ammo piles, do you think one day we can find other arrows or even arrow heads in ammo piles, like fire arrows!

 

 

now i don't know about the other black powder weapons, ill have to think and imagine it! but at the same time, it is kinda odd that there is just a blunderbuss! not anyother

[Guppycur]

9 minutes ago, madmole said:

That would encourage a min maxing type of stupid strategy guide game play... "Oh don't open that loot container yet wait until you are a higher level" kind of crap. Honestly stone tools of high quality are kind of nice to find.

If the entire world knee jerks over stone tools, we can do something about it. This is a first pass at getting an actual primitive stage in the game.

...but the game already encourages that by using leveled loot instead of danger based loot.  "Hey StompyNZ, you have the highest GS and perks in lucky looter and are wearing the goggles, eat that magic candy and open this crate for us".

 

It's already happening.  You /sound/ like you don't like/want it to happen, so is that a sign that y'all are possibly thinking of changing it?

[Usimian]

1 minute ago, Guppycur said:

...but the game already encourages that by using leveled loot instead of danger based loot.  "Hey StompyNZ, you have the highest GS and perks in lucky looter and are wearing the goggles, eat that magic candy and open this crate for us".

 

It's already happening.  You /sound/ like you don't like/want it to happen, so is that a sign that y'all are possibly thinking of changing it?

Anyone who's played for long enough already does the min/max strategy.  We all know what things we can do that make the game easier even if it's not realistic.  I prefer the danger strategy.  The reward should reflect the danger.  This is what game devs wrestle with all the time, balancing while players keep trying to find the shortest path to progressing.

[Laz Man]

10 minutes ago, Guppycur said:

...but the game already encourages that by using leveled loot instead of danger based loot.  "Hey StompyNZ, you have the highest GS and perks in lucky looter and are wearing the goggles, eat that magic candy and open this crate for us".

 

It's already happening.  You /sound/ like you don't like/want it to happen, so is that a sign that y'all are possibly thinking of changing it?

I am afraid a change of that magnitude is probably too late at this stage in development even if they wanted to do it.  On a static map, they could sorta make certain biomes with harder difficulty with better loot but then they would need to rework all of the prefabs again and will need to rework their RWG generation as well.  Easier said the done probably.  Maybe for 7 days to die 2? *Shurgs*

 

There are probably other design issues with location based difficulty with open world maps as well.  In a linear closed world, its easy, you just dont allow the player to go the the higher difficulty location until they are close to being ready.  In MMORPG they actually tell the player what level range a zone or instance is for usability so players dont waste their time and get frustrated/wrecked.

[MajorMunchy]

Sorry Page not Found

[Tin]

Why not just change the nameplate on the crates then? 

idk, something like "Expedition Supplies", or "White River Exploratory Supplies", painted over top of the "Working Stiff" stencil?

At least then it tells the player "hey, you might not get the best loot in this crate, but it might be better than what you have".

Like it was from a past looting expedition that failed. Put a little note in it, something like: Supplies for expedition "blah blah".

 

Then as the players GS goes up, the new buildings you enter, have some of the original "Working Stiff" crates inside. 

    

[Perlin_Worm]

Considering the current stone age in A18 doesnt even last a day, I dont mind this change.

[Jugom]

Speaking of stone shovels.. anyone else noticed the player was using the shovel sideways? he's not gonna pick much dirt that way... x)
also, the stone axe handle is rotated backwards. the curve shoud be pointing to the sharp side, not to the user. 

[xfejiou5]

@faatal, are you planning on doing a dev stream? I looked at the descriptions of 1 through 5 but didn't see you mentioned as a guest.

[MajorMunchy]

link to recorded stream #6?

 

[Adam the Waster]

1 minute ago, MajorMunchy said:

link to recorded stream #6?

 

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/659744429

 

[Jugom]

I didn't realize last night it was exclusively in 1080p and chewed through 2GB of my data plan in 15 minutes..,.. x(
I'm still waiting for the youtube version...

[Laz Man]

36 minutes ago, xfejiou5 said:

@faatal, are you planning on doing a dev stream? I looked at the descriptions of 1 through 5 but didn't see you mentioned as a guest.

Faatal and other programmers should be on tonight's dev stream. 😎

[diegodgo87]

17 minutes ago, Jugom said:

I didn't realize last night it was exclusively in 1080p and chewed through 2GB of my data plan in 15 minutes..,.. x(
I'm still waiting for the youtube version...

I'm waiting Vedui recap, these streams are too long

[madmole]

1 hour ago, Damocles said:

Would be interesting to know what the actual timeline should be.

Canned food can survive 5 years. But a lot of buildings have damages that look way older, and some are very pristine.

 

Is there some time-since-the-apocalypse that you aim for in the design?

Not really. No need to let the realism police over think things. Leaving it vague is best for design and game play freedom. Long enough for modified zombie killing melee weapons to be found in loot, weapons to all be rusty/bandaged, and for traders to open up make shift tree house businesses that have franchised, and for two main players (duke and noah) to have emerged as strong organized forces in the area with differing beliefs.

[Adam the Waster]

2 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

Faatal and other programmers should be on tonight's dev stream. 😎

THE WHOLE TEAM SHOULD PLAY WITH EACHTOHER AND FIGHT!

 

 

 

and we will beat dukes on what team will win.

 

 

Art team

 

Dev team

 

Program team

 

QA team

 

Huenink team

[Trankitas]

1 hour ago, xfejiou5 said:

@faatal, are you planning on doing a dev stream? I looked at the descriptions of 1 through 5 but didn't see you mentioned as a guest.

I think he will be on tonight  This is the stream I've been more excited about