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Alpha 19 Dev Diary


madmole

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29 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

I think it would be so awesome if they did more models like what they did for the clubs (e.g. spiked/barb wire etc.) But for other weapon types.  Soooo much more immersive. 😎👍

 

Edit: The new wooden club with a barbed wire / chain / spikes mod on it looked so Fing badass!

 

Looks like something snowdog would use...😏

 

MvyrRup.jpg

I'd say the exact opposite. taking the club shown as example. Why is there cloth wrapped around the club before any mods are added? Why would you make a melee weapon SOFT by adding cloth. It is absolutely counter productive to remove hardness from a blunt melee weapon. It's a tree branch for heaven's sake, it does not need cloth to hold it together. It makes me almost as crazy as their newest fad of wrapping some cloth loosely around the grip of almost every gun in the game. All that does is make for something to loosen up and not allow you to get a firm grip on the weapon, leading to inaccuracy. C'mon, we all know how fast that piece of leather tied on with a string would get loose and fall off, a magazine or two. We can forge metal and even make glue but we tie grips on our gun with a string? Urgh it just looks awful.

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3 hours ago, STyK_ said:

1. Are you guys leaving nerd pole-ing in the game? The way the game is played will be drastically changed taking this out from building to looting buildings. As it stands a player can get to where the best loot in the game is with two frames. Who needs a helicopter?! That's a problem right?

and how is the game supposed to tell apart of you stack frames to fix a roof of your base or if you want to build something, or just want to reach for something that isn't looting?

 

if that bothers you so much you could easly edit or mod it, in my opinion changing the game mechanics because for some people is unrealistic or just too easy to loot isn't worth it. again if anyone is just so annoyed because of this could mod it, or change it on the xml or something. don't fix what isn't broken.

 

also with that reasoning, they should remove stairs, ladders, etc. because you can place them in order to climb buildings too

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4 minutes ago, JCrook1028 said:

I'd say the exact opposite. taking the club shown as example. Why is there cloth wrapped around the club before any mods are added? Why would you make a melee weapon SOFT by adding cloth. It is absolutely counter productive to remove hardness from a blunt melee weapon. It's a tree branch for heaven's sake, it does not need cloth to hold it together. It makes me almost as crazy as their newest fad of wrapping some cloth loosely around the grip of almost every gun in the game. All that does is make for something to loosen up and not allow you to get a firm grip on the weapon, leading to inaccuracy. C'mon, we all know how fast that piece of leather tied on with a string would get loose and fall off, a magazine or two. We can forge metal and even make glue but we tie grips on our gun with a string? Urgh it just looks awful.

I can't really speak to the cloth around the club. On the gun though I'm guessing the idea is grip tape, could definitely use a another model.

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1 hour ago, GoldenFox said:

and how is the game supposed to tell apart of you stack frames to fix a roof of your base or if you want to build something, or just want to reach for something that isn't looting?

 

if that bothers you so much you could easly edit or mod it, in my opinion changing the game mechanics because for some people is unrealistic or just too easy to loot isn't worth it. again if anyone is just so annoyed because of this could mod it, or change it on the xml or something. don't fix what isn't broken.

 

also with that reasoning, they should remove stairs, ladders, etc. because you can place them in order to climb buildings too

yet you can stack frames to no limit into the sky, put frames around the outside of your base for horde night to walk on to fight the horde and shoot though them with them taking no damage, block doors with them. TFP encourage us to go though the poi's the way they lay it out, if they took out 'the frame' that would pull the safety blanket for a lot of people.

There just needs to be a balance and I didn't put together what they had said on stream, I heard the having to punch to harvest but never put it together with not being able to pick up frames. I must have missed that part or stepped away. I'm going to watch it again.

Maybe higher poi's should have a perimeter around them you can't build on till you destroy 'its land claim block?' They were talking about the poi being changed so they show up on the maps when you enter them and say there tier, maybe those areas could have different rules. I refused to believe the game 'needs' 'the frame' in its current state.

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53 minutes ago, khzmusik said:

FYI, they did answer this in the stream (or perhaps an earlier stream, can't remember offhand).

 

Their solutions did not affect nerd-poling. One was to add one-way doors; the other was to have a door that requires a key, which is hidden in some other (random) place in the POI. In either case, the idea is that you can't go immediately to the loot room (via nerd-poling or otherwise) and just grab the loot.

 

Richard Huenink gave that answer in the first Twitch stream video.

My view on this is that I don't like nerd-poling so I don't do it; but keeping others from doing it might be wrong. We all have our special way to play the game.

Some guy I used to watch on YouTube would always avoid going through buildings the regular way since he just seemed unable to figure out where to go next... Well, I guess It's not for everyone.

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5 hours ago, STyK_ said:

I asked a bunch of questions during Madmoles stream that didn't get answered and came up with a few new ones I'm hoping can be answered here.  Some are directed to the talks of the end of the project.

1. Nerd pole

2. Pick up vehicles

4. Food spoilage

6.  PoI Tower redesign

7. Arbitrary deadlines

 

Almost all of these were addressed in the streams

 

1. They are wanting to make it so you need a key card that spawns on a random zombie inside the PoI to open the loot room. That will stop you from just nerd poling to the top

2. This has not been addressed but really shouldn't be removed. Vehicles get stuck, A LOT, and the only way to get them out is to just pick them up.

4. Food spoilage has been talked about 900 times, and the answer is "Maybe". Because every time it's mentioned a HUGE amount of people don't like the idea because it just makes the game tedious and not fun.

6. See point 1

7. "It's ready when it's ready" is their stance and it's the best stance. We don't want them to rush patches to put out low quality content that wasn't ready to meet an arbitrary deadline

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36 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

And that brings me to my point: imagine building without nerd poling. Seriously, it would be a clunky and frustrating mess, imo. Imagine having to get up high, building pillars everywhere, and then having to attack ladders to them, or building wooden ramps everywhere that you would have to destroy later on. As another example, imagine Minecraft without nerdpoling. Wouldn't work out well, wouldn't it?

Who cares? I want the best loot NOW and I'll build whatever I need to get there.

(I'm doing the devil's advocate here)

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1 minute ago, MechanicalLens said:

Who cares? I don't have time to loot since it's now taking me 5x longer to construct my base.

(Double devil's advocate here.)

Also, this should probably go under General Discussions, no?

We're talking about some mechanism which stops you from using nerd-poling near POIs.

Nobody said it shouldn't work within your base perimeter.

 

No, it's on topic since the question asked was about new features for A19... 😉

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45 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

And that brings me to my point: imagine building without nerd poling. Seriously, it would be a clunky and frustrating mess, imo. Imagine having to get up high, building pillars everywhere, and then having to attack ladders to them, or building wooden ramps everywhere that you would have to destroy later on. As another example, imagine Minecraft without nerdpoling. Wouldn't work out well, wouldn't it?

And that's why there has not been any ham-fisted "fix" like that.

 

We have some ideas on that but no all around awesome solution to All The Problems At Once. =P

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7 minutes ago, Gazz said:

And that's why there has not been any ham-fisted "fix" like that.

 

We have some ideas on that but no all around awesome solution to All The Problems At Once. =P

To beat a dead horse - your ideas are IMHO far superior to anything having to do with nerd-poling. Please focus on doing what you're already going to do. :)

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10 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

Oh, so taking over POI's and fortifying them is now impossible under this mechanic, eh? I can see a lot of flame coming from this...

I just literally said that this needn't apply inside your base perimeter.

Just place a bedroll or LCB and you can nerd-pole all you want inside that area. ✌️

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Just now, MechanicalLens said:

Of course it is. I just take always being right in the end very seriously.

Now, this keycard system TFP have proposed. Can you think of any flaws in it?

Keycards would be kind of immersion breaking.

Why can I break down literally everything in the game and then inside (mission) POIs I'm not able to bypass doors just by tearing down the walls?

 

IMO they should find a more natural/coherent way to avoid loot cheating.

The best way would be the one someone mentioned, to have a few random places for each POI where the loot room can spawn.

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1 hour ago, JCrook1028 said:

I'd say the exact opposite. taking the club shown as example. Why is there cloth wrapped around the club before any mods are added? Why would you make a melee weapon SOFT by adding cloth. It is absolutely counter productive to remove hardness from a blunt melee weapon. It's a tree branch for heaven's sake, it does not need cloth to hold it together. It makes me almost as crazy as their newest fad of wrapping some cloth loosely around the grip of almost every gun in the game. All that does is make for something to loosen up and not allow you to get a firm grip on the weapon, leading to inaccuracy. C'mon, we all know how fast that piece of leather tied on with a string would get loose and fall off, a magazine or two. We can forge metal and even make glue but we tie grips on our gun with a string? Urgh it just looks awful.

 

There's a perfectly practical and logical explanation for the cloth wrapped around the club.

 

For one, it does not make it soft. If you notice, the cloth clearly goes in-between the spiky protrusions of the club, not over them. Those are what are going to be hitting the enemy and inflicting the most damage.

 

For two, wood tends to splinter and break when smashed against hard things. The cloth tightly wrapped around the whole shape *does* help keep it together after a few hits. In fact, I'd argue that it makes it hit harder by making the wood less flexible and more firm. Think of duct tape. It's not particularly hard or hurtful, but if you tightly wrap something in duct tape, not only it gives it more durability, it also makes it hit harder.

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8 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

I just literally said that this needn't apply inside your base perimeter.

Just place a bedroll or LCB and you can nerd-pole all you want inside that area. ✌️

There are a huge number of players (myself included) that like to build outside of areas protected by LCBs or bedrolls. This would piss off every single one of those players. (Again, myself included.)

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23 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

Oh, so taking over POI's and fortifying them is now impossible under this mechanic, eh? I can see a lot of flame coming from this...

How about a structure block (think of something similar to a landclaim block, but not in function) placed near the top of each vertical POI that prevents players from nerdpoling, and you have to get to it to destroy it. This would prevent nerdpoling, and if you wanted to colonize that POI, nothing is affected.

put the 'landclaim block' in the key card protected loot room

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1 minute ago, khzmusik said:

There are a huge number of players (myself included) that like to build outside of areas protected by LCBs or bedrolls. This would piss off every single one of those players. (Again, myself included.)

We're only talking about POIs and then only about nerd poling.

You could still build whatever you like with that kind of mechanic in place.

 

Also, as I see it, inside those anti-nerdpoling areas you should still be allowed to place one wood frame at a time, so that you can still build and upgrade blocks normally.

4 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

That's one thing, and your argument is perfectly valid (at the same time though, there's plenty of things in 7D2D to lose your immersion over), but I was thinking more along the lines of mechanics vs personal experience. (Ex. what happens if the keycard is lost or destroyed?)

That would need to be discussed on a case by case basis.

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3 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

Keycards would be kind of immersion breaking.

Why can I break down literally everything in the game and then inside (mission) POIs I'm not able to bypass doors just by tearing down the walls?

 

IMO they should find a more natural/coherent way to avoid loot cheating.

The best way would be the one someone mentioned, to have a few random places for each POI where the loot room can spawn.

Possible addendum to my previous post (depending upon the forum software...)

 

I would assume that the doors would be breakable but have a huge amount of hit points. Meaning - you could just break down the door to get the loot, but it would take so long, that it would be just as fast/convenient to just go through the POI as intended.

 

The "random loot room" idea is also good but probably much harder to implement. If I'm wrong and it's as easy for TFP to do as one-way doors or keys, then I'm all for it.

 

What I'm not all for, is removing nerd poling - an incredibly useful thing to have for multiple reasons - just because some folks think it's an easy solution to an unrelated problem (going directly to loot in POIs). Especially since it's a problem that plenty of players don't really care about one way or the other.

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1 hour ago, MechanicalLens said:

And that brings me to my point: imagine building without nerd poling. Seriously, it would be a clunky and frustrating mess, imo. Imagine having to get up high, building pillars everywhere, and then having to attack ladders to them, or building wooden ramps everywhere that you would have to destroy later on. As another example, imagine Minecraft without nerdpoling. Wouldn't work out well, wouldn't it?

yeah that's what im talking about, i mean if some people think is way too easy or "unrealistic" -in a zombie game- lol they can mod those changes, or edit the xml, no need to force that on everyone just because they want it to be changed. again the game has been growing with it for 7 years now, no need to change that mechanic just when the game is nearly finished.

 

i dont support that, hek, even if they are implementing that, should do that in the next game.

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9 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

Also, as I see it, inside those anti-nerdpoling areas you should still be allowed to place one wood frame at a time, so that you can still build and upgrade blocks normally.

(Again, possibly appended to my previous comment)

 

So, inside the anti-nerd-poling areas, you can still place ladders? Or place wooden frames in a stair-step pattern against walls?

 

If so, you've solved nothing, since both of those techniques are just as effective as nerd-poling to get to loot rooms. If not - then you basically can't build inside those areas.

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2 minutes ago, khzmusik said:

Possible addendum to my previous post (depending upon the forum software...)

 

I would assume that the doors would be breakable but have a huge amount of hit points. Meaning - you could just break down the door to get the loot, but it would take so long, that it would be just as fast/convenient to just go through the POI as intended.

 

The "random loot room" idea is also good but probably much harder to implement. If I'm wrong and it's as easy for TFP to do as one-way doors or keys, then I'm all for it.

 

What I'm not all for, is removing nerd poling - an incredibly useful thing to have for multiple reasons - just because some folks think it's an easy solution to an unrelated problem (going directly to loot in POIs). Especially since it's a problem that plenty of players don't really care about one way or the other.

You see, I'd agree on the walls/doors with a "huge amount of points" thing, but the problem is it's a shoehorned solution IMO.

If you need to have "special walls" or "special doors" to solve this problem, then that's probably not the best solution.

 

As for the nerd-poling thing I'm just discussing it for the sake of it, I'm not in favor nor against removing it.

It depends on how it all relates, as you said, to solving the other problem.

 

We could also say that skipping dungeon POIs to immediately get the loot is fine since what's fun for the player it's always ok... and be done with it. *shrugs*

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