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Alpha 19 Dev Diary


madmole

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9 hours ago, beHypE said:

By the way, the junk turrets often make the zombies die standing up, which is annoying. I think it mostly happens when they die during the animation of getting stunned and/or getting up from a stun. @faatal :D

Planning on looking at that bug Monday.

16 minutes ago, Dethar said:

They Hope to have experimental ot at end of month and usually about another 3-4 months for stable.

Experimental duration is normally 3-4 weeks, not months.

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43 minutes ago, Khalagar said:

Good stream Madmole! A bit disappointed on the Junk Sledge, it seems to confirm my fears that it has a lot issues with tracking zombies and won't really be end game viable. It might have been Lathan's questionable placement though, he put it in places where it basically couldn't fire lol

 

I've already razzed Lathan about learning how to use the Junk Sledge. The Sledge increases in capability as you perk up. That was the weakest version that was shown. Slow.

 

44 minutes ago, Khalagar said:

Which raises the question though, what is the end game melee weapon for Int then? Stun Baton and Junk Sledge are both tier 1 weapons, and Rick said Stun Baton wasn't buffed so it's still in really bad shape. The new mod might help it a bit, but it's still in the "Why would I spend 45 seconds trying to stun the zombie when I can just one shot it with a steel sledge???" tier

There isn't one that is parallel to the other trees. The sledge and the turret increase in capability as you continue to progress in the perk tree and intelligence attribute but they are meant to assist you as you fight and not be the only weapon. You can pick any other weapon from any other branch and use that alongside the sledge or turret and if you behave strategically then it is a powerful and fun combination. Just....don't stand back and let zombies walk right through the robot....

 

48 minutes ago, Khalagar said:

Every other tree has a self contained "Build" where they have their melee and ranged weapon, but in Int, the focus seems quite hard on making the Junk Sledge early game only.

 

So you end up with the tree having 4 weapons total, but 2/4 are tier 1, and the Tier 3 weapon is not an offense weapon, so you really only have a Tier 2 offense weapon with no end game melee weapon at all. Excited to test it first hand, just a bit confused on the what the focus is for the tree as it's kind of all over the place

You were only shown the the most basic version of the sledge. Lathan cheated it in. He had no ranks purchased in either robotics or intelligence. Don't judge what you will have going on by Day 30 with what was shown in the stream. That was just an introduction to how the sledge works but with intelligent tactics and progression taken into account it is better. As far as a tier 3 version of the stun baton I think I've heard about something that will be added at some point.... But in general you are supposed to use a bat, or a sledgehammer, or a knife, or a ranged weapon alongside the robots you pick. 

9 minutes ago, sillls said:

Yeah I hear it's a real blast! 😁

Its just one of those things that if you've played for 100s of hours and didn't know about it and then you try it....it's just mind blowing.

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The Intelligence stat is prone to snowball the character in many games, Fallout 4 being an easy example.

Get 9 points in Int, eventually get the Int bobble head and way too soon you are a maxed out.

 

In 7d2d, if you are about as good as the shooter/melee builds and can make things that expand your game play, it becomes a No

Brainer (pardon the pun).  

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Pretty happy with Stream. Candy is amazing by the looks. Wedge tip stuff ill adapte , use my old design of 1 block high wall to zombies jumping like at a Rav party lol

 

Be great to see later on a Base human controlled turret. That the player sits in. Looks like this. Late game for mutant hordes

images (22).jpeg

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1 minute ago, Matt 1977 said:

Pretty happy with Stream. Candy is amazing by the looks. Wedge tip stuff ill adapte , use my old design of 1 block high wall to zombies jumping like at a Rav party lol

 

Be great to see later on a Base human controlled turret. That the player sits in. Looks like this. Late game for mutant hordes

images (22).jpeg

Now THAT would be great fun!

Too big for 50 cal's... That might be a German 20mm from WW2?

 

They often had high explosive ammo.  Can you imagine the visual effects if you funneled the BM hoard into one kill corridor...  

Nothing would live. Er, nothing would be moving afterwards.  :) 

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2 minutes ago, Aldranon said:

Now THAT would be great fun!

Too big for 50 cal's... That might be a German 20mm from WW2?

 

They often had high explosive ammo.  Can you imagine the visual effects if you funneled the BM hoard into one kill corridor...  

Nothing would live. Er, nothing would be moving afterwards.  :) 

Lol yeap im busted. Im into WW2 history bigtime. 

 

Strap 4 m60s onto a office chair and bam lol

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1 hour ago, Roland said:

Lathan cheated it in. He had no ranks purchased in either robotics or intelligence.

 

He was using the Buff Me thing a lot, although now that you mention it, at that time he may not have had it going? Kind of hard to really gauge any of the weapons when he alternates between max perks and no perks and then sub optimal usage lol. The Auto shotgun seemed pretty meh the first go around, but now it seems ridiculously OP, so Junk Sledge might have more chance in other situations than the ones he showed.

 

I wish we could get a test of dual junk sledges vs 25 fodder zombies to see how they do against it. It's not even really the damage that worries me, but rather that tracking / range of them. They don't swivel which really hurts, so they have a narrow cone of fire and have short range, so you have to lead zombies into their range before they even start trying to help. 

 

With Lathan's placement the zombies were just ignoring the turret mostly and it wasn't hitting them well. You'll likely have to dance around in front of them a lot to keep them firing, and then deal with them only hitting body shots instead of headshots.

 

Another concern is that zombies seem to treat turrets as an impassible block and do not path to them very much. So if you put your junk turret in front of your door, the zombies will treat it as a 2 block thick wall and will just attack a different weak spot instead which means the junk turret might not even be in range to fire.

 

Overall still hopeful for it, just want some better testing on it and the "It's only a tier one weapon!" mentality has me kind of worried since it's not "only a tier one" it's "the only melee weapon the int tree has that's not the stun baton". We need some stun baton videos too to see if it's actually, y'know, a weapon now. It wasn't even good for selling in A18, even the traders didn't want them and barely offered any dukes for a tier 6 one lol

 

It seems to have a lot of potential in hand held mode, Lathan didn't use it a ton in that mode but I hope it's good at breaking through walls in PoI so you could potentially run it instead of fire axe. Although new battle axe is awesome so I might use it anyway

Edited by Khalagar (see edit history)
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1 minute ago, Matt 1977 said:

i gotta give Lathan a little slack. As streaming with the boss and 1000 peeps watching. I'd hzve a river of sweat out the door lol

 

Yeah for sure, don't mean to sound hard on him, I'm just an excel and graph nerd lol. So getting inaccurate data triggers me and I demand retests and data validation

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1 hour ago, MechanicalLens said:

@Roland So while it isn't balanced to be this way, my guess is that the Intellect class is supposed to be used as a support build and one could not solely rely on that attribute to survive and thrive like one could theoretically do with the other builds?

At no point did we say that "worthwhile attribute" means that you invest in one attribute and one attribute only.

 

Intellect gets you a lot and it has weapons to it but it very much is not an instant gratification buttkicking attribute.

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After Cyberpunk was delayed again im hoping A19 isn't. 

7 days is my favourite game of all time at this point. Not sure if I've passed Panzer General as no hours played recorded. 

 

So many games being launched and im like meh. Don't start me on Last of us 2...... 

Drone name is Ted

 

Edited by Matt 1977 (see edit history)
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18 hours ago, beHypE said:

Mhhhh, have you actually played the junk turret ? Because I have a 65 hour pure intellect playthrough going right now (well, not pure anymore, but I've been for a long time), and my reality couldn't be further away from what your post tries to lay out. Yes, turrets do work, especially once you have 2 of them with 5 points into their perk. Do they need tweaking ? Sure ! Are they broken or really that superior like you pretend them to be ? Hell no, it's quite the opposite unless you're a totally beginner in first person shooters.

 

First of all they are situational compared to the other weapons. You need an area that has some space to it, and very often with the way sleepers work (waking up when you walk into the room), that means backpedaling a bit, planting your turrets, and waiting for the zombies to come towards you.  Not only is it cumbersome and does it take thim, but this is all good unless you get to a high enough gamestage where a majority of the zombies are runners. There's obviously always a "way" to make them work in any POI, but it's very often way more annoying compared to just clicking heads with any other gun.

 

Also, the benefits skill points regarding the turrets are off. From rank 4 to rank 5 you magically more than double the effectiveness your loadout. That alone feels very weird, as in "it's either OP rank 5 or it was trash before". Then, the shooting vs placing dilemma : the dismemberment chance from your Intellect points does NOT proc when your turrets are placed down, but shooting the turret yourself is insanely slow compared to when they are placed on the floor (and very imprecise).

 

You mention the fact they should only be active when you're 1-2 blocks away. How does that solve the "closed door problem" you're talking about ? Can you imagine how annoying and static the gameplay would feel with such restrictions, especially when using 2 turrets ? 

 

Lastly, what you call an "exploit" is really situational. Dropping down turrets 2 floors beneath to clear a whole floor with zero risk ? How does that actually happen ? Your turret needs line of sight to shoot zombies, so unless we're talking very specific conditions where there is one single room and no obstacles that prevent line of sight, I don't see that happening nearly often enough so that it is a problem. Not even mentionning you then need to go down and pick em up... And "planting your turret and closing a door" is really no different than whacking out a single block and shooting them in the head while they try to bash their way in...

 

Don't get me wrong, junk turrets can clear out zombies very fast if the conditions are right. Sadly, unless we're talking 7th day horde, those conditions are filled way less often than the ones needed to wipe a room clean with any other full perked gun. And as a matter of fact, clearing a POI with my 0 perk level 4 AK47 was way more of a breeze than using 2 level 5 fully perked junk turrets...

The reason they are OP is because you can also pull out a weapon while they are down and also shoot at things. While perfectly safe as the turrets are keeping them busy and usually knocked on their backs.

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10 minutes ago, PoloPoPo said:

Is there a list of all A19 updates somewhere? The one at the beginning of this topic clearly does not include everything that is known by now.

There will be pages upon pages of patchnotes once the Update drops, but for now the First Page is a pretty good Summary.

You should also visit:

 

from Adam the Waster who put a lot of effort to gather all the Informations.

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23 hours ago, Annihilatorza said:

Was just an example, gameplay for me wins over everything else.

Twas a joke. Personally I would rather have more guns and more ammo. Black-powder guns and the more modern smokeless powder guns aren't that interchangeable but it would be cool to use that to bring in more guns. Odds are that's not going to happen.

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1 hour ago, Scyris said:

The reason they are OP is because you can also pull out a weapon while they are down and also shoot at things. While perfectly safe as the turrets are keeping them busy and usually knocked on their backs.

You can quickly put down some wood spikes that damage the zombies while you shoot them, does that make them OP ? By the way, you'd know that while the turrets can "stunlock" the zombies or keep them knocked on their backs, that also means you hitting headshots reliably became that much more difficult.

 

My point is, unless there are 8+ zombies coming at me and the setup is right, it takes more time to deploy two turrets, grab my gun, kill the zombies and pick up my turrets after the fight than simply shooting all of their heads with a gun. And guess what the most important resource in the game is ? Time. Let's also not forget all the situations where playing with turrets is a struggle.

 

I strongly urge you to try out a pure Intellect build in coop with a friend that uses any other of the available guns, and come back here after several dozen hours of seeing him melt the zombies faster than you can play the turret micromanagement game. Because I can assure you, you'll quickly realise your "unspecced back up weapon" does the job faster than your fully perked turrets.

 

It's easy thinking of things you have never tried extensively as an easy to solve equation, i.e.  2*turrets + 1*gun > 1*gun. Things aren't that simple in reality though.

 

Edited by beHypE (see edit history)
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Turrets with a level 10 intellect skill tree are extremely strong, indeed. I have used that with my most advanced savegame. Drop down both turrets (with mods), awake the zombies that protect the main loot and lure them in front of your turrets. Basically you just have to run in circles in front of the turrets and they do the job. Most of the times the zombies don't even make it behind the turrets at all and you can just stand there and watch the spectacle (or join the shooting with a weapon). Forgot about my gamestage (~day 72) but there are a lot of infected zombies etc. and this always works. And the biggest advantage is it uses nothing but iron :) 

 

Not sure if I'd call it overpowered as it takes a lot of skill points to get there. Right now it is definitely worthwile to skill that in my opinion. But I found out I prefer to engage the zombies myself instead of just dropping two turrets in a room and run away 😛 

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I had to leave the last night's stream halfway so I had to skip the Q&A.

 

What baffles me is that people could have asked tons of good questions but most in the chat were just fooling around and wasting this opportunity.

Nobody asked, for example, about legendary items... it was a big feature announced several times, why is it not in A19?? Will it be in A20?

Also Mini-Bosses were announced for POI loot rooms, but they're not in either, why? Will they be in A20 or have they been scrapped like the behemoth?

 

When the sledge turret was first announced I actually thought it would be a new type of fixed turret you could use in your base design.

Will there ever be more turret types for our base designs? There has been talk for some time of a Flame Turret, but I guess that's been scrapped too?

It would be great to also have a fixed version of the Sledge Turret that we could place as a block: the INT portable version will probably mostly be used by INT guys IMO.

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