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Just watched latest stream #3. Must admit, the art department outdid theirselves (really good job). The vision of the game as MM once described gets together and yea guys, keep kicking butts. 

 

Oh ya, and I am sure I am in love with burned forest biome now. Did wasteland got some changes or its a surprise ? :)

 

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1 minute ago, Trankitas said:

Be sure to tune in tonight on Prime's Stream, you can discuss gameplay and balance stuff with the Legend himself (Madmole).

Hope most of us make it, here in Europe it starts at 4am and I`ll be in. 

 

Be sure to prepare your questions, guys. 

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Just now, beerfly said:

Hope most of us make it, here in Europe it starts at 4am and I`ll be in. 

 

Be sure to prepare your questions, guys. 

Wow that's commitment, in Uruguay (where I live) starts at 23:00 so no worries for me... Yesterday I was on the entire 3 hour stream, will you?

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I've always thought that Junk Turrets were using a spring to launch the projectile.

So what if Junk Turrets needed a Battery to fire?

 

Field swappable & say a fully charged T1 Battery was good for 500 shots?

No idea what the difference is between a T1 & T6 Battery but if I recall from past use of solar cells & battery banks it's pretty significant...

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5 minutes ago, Trankitas said:

Wow that's commitment, in Uruguay (where I live) starts at 23:00 so no worries for me... Yesterday I was on the entire 3 hour stream, will you?

Will watch all of it. As I did with #2. Hope not being called from work so early when they see me active. 

 

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3 hours ago, Scyris said:

My issue is more the fact you can have to shoot at zombies in random poi's while your safe behind doors and such. IMO you should need both line of sight with the turret, and also have to be witnhin 1-2 blocks of it, or it don't fire. Would allow it to be used as backup damage but will fix the exploitability of it that it currently has. I mean i've seen players drop them 2-3 floors below them and they just mop everything out pretty fast at 0 risk to the player. I just do not understand it, they made zombies dig so underground players have a risk, they make them swim in a19 so you can't just hide on a lake at night or, the rotting zombies also somehow can swim faster than the player.. yeah figure that one out I can't, yet they allow placed junk turrets to fire at things while your half the Poi away completly safe.

 

Mhhhh, have you actually played the junk turret ? Because I have a 65 hour pure intellect playthrough going right now (well, not pure anymore, but I've been for a long time), and my reality couldn't be further away from what your post tries to lay out. Yes, turrets do work, especially once you have 2 of them with 5 points into their perk. Do they need tweaking ? Sure ! Are they broken or really that superior like you pretend them to be ? Hell no, it's quite the opposite unless you're a totally beginner in first person shooters.

 

First of all they are situational compared to the other weapons. You need an area that has some space to it, and very often with the way sleepers work (waking up when you walk into the room), that means backpedaling a bit, planting your turrets, and waiting for the zombies to come towards you.  Not only is it cumbersome and does it take thim, but this is all good unless you get to a high enough gamestage where a majority of the zombies are runners. There's obviously always a "way" to make them work in any POI, but it's very often way more annoying compared to just clicking heads with any other gun.

 

Also, the benefits skill points regarding the turrets are off. From rank 4 to rank 5 you magically more than double the effectiveness your loadout. That alone feels very weird, as in "it's either OP rank 5 or it was trash before". Then, the shooting vs placing dilemma : the dismemberment chance from your Intellect points does NOT proc when your turrets are placed down, but shooting the turret yourself is insanely slow compared to when they are placed on the floor (and very imprecise).

 

You mention the fact they should only be active when you're 1-2 blocks away. How does that solve the "closed door problem" you're talking about ? Can you imagine how annoying and static the gameplay would feel with such restrictions, especially when using 2 turrets ? 

 

Lastly, what you call an "exploit" is really situational. Dropping down turrets 2 floors beneath to clear a whole floor with zero risk ? How does that actually happen ? Your turret needs line of sight to shoot zombies, so unless we're talking very specific conditions where there is one single room and no obstacles that prevent line of sight, I don't see that happening nearly often enough so that it is a problem. Not even mentionning you then need to go down and pick em up... And "planting your turret and closing a door" is really no different than whacking out a single block and shooting them in the head while they try to bash their way in...

 

Don't get me wrong, junk turrets can clear out zombies very fast if the conditions are right. Sadly, unless we're talking 7th day horde, those conditions are filled way less often than the ones needed to wipe a room clean with any other full perked gun. And as a matter of fact, clearing a POI with my 0 perk level 4 AK47 was way more of a breeze than using 2 level 5 fully perked junk turrets...

Edited by beHypE (see edit history)
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For those who say the current game is not a challenge have the perspective of a player with hundreds of hours under their belt. The game, in fact, is very difficult for new players, everything from not finding a healing solution in time to food which is always scarce when you dont know the loot system. The dev team is in the difficult position to make the game challenging enough for seasoned players and at the same time, preventing the noobs from rage quitting after their first bleed out which happens almost immediately upon first zombie encounter.

Edited by Perlin_Worm (see edit history)
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10 minutes ago, Perlin_Worm said:

For those who say the current game is not a challenge have the perspective of a player with hundreds of hours under their belt. The game, in fact, is very difficult for new players, everything from not finding a healing solution in time to food which is always scarce when you dont know the loot system. The dev team is in the difficult position to make the game challenging enough for seasoned players and at the same time, preventing the noobs from rage quitting after their first bleed out which happens almost immediately upon first zombie encounter.

100% this.  Many of us old timers want more content and rather have newbs to "get gud" afterwall we figured it out right?

 

However, that mentality would probably keep 7d2d as a niche survival game versus one with greater appeal to more players.

 

Of course this is debatable.  Hopefully, the new telemetry data will help them get a better sense of this moving forward so we can all continue to see the game we all care about grow.

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I have 930 hours in the game now, but I can still remember early on dying a dozen times in one day.  I'd die because I couldn't figure out how to melee properly with my club.  I'd die because I was encumbered and couldn't get away in time.  I'd bleed out because dogs.  I'd die because I stepped on a land mine.  I'd die to a surprise bear while attempting to pick some corn.  I'd die multiple times trying to recover my stuff after dying.  I'd die because the tutorial told me to go to the trader, and he was almost 2 km away, and it turned nighttime before I found him, and then he wouldn't let me in and the zombies ate me.  I'd fall off a building and attempt to flee from zombies half-dead with a broken leg and die again.  I'd step on a cactus and get mauled by vultures.  I remember using all my  perk points on trying to be stealthy so I could be better at hiding from zombies, and I wasn't sure what else I should put them in.  It took me a long time to "git gud", and even now I'm not as "gud" as some people who happily crank up their difficulty and horde sizes.  I can certainly understand why the developers would want to make things less frustratingly difficult for newbies, because a less stubborn newbie might have given up and played something else.  Making it easier to find your backpack or dig up that buried treasure might help a newbie stick with the game, while it's not going to make the blood moon hordes any easier to survive, or reduce the amount of radiated cops I need to deal with in a tier 5 POI, so it's not as if it's removing all the challenge for experienced players.  I'm fine with this.

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35 minutes ago, TheRani said:

I have 930 hours in the game now, but I can still remember early on dying a dozen times in one day.  I'd die because I couldn't figure out how to melee properly with my club.  I'd die because I was encumbered and couldn't get away in time.  I'd bleed out because dogs.  I'd die because I stepped on a land mine.  I'd die to a surprise bear while attempting to pick some corn.  I'd die multiple times trying to recover my stuff after dying.  I'd die because the tutorial told me to go to the trader, and he was almost 2 km away, and it turned nighttime before I found him, and then he wouldn't let me in and the zombies ate me.  I'd fall off a building and attempt to flee from zombies half-dead with a broken leg and die again.  I'd step on a cactus and get mauled by vultures.  I remember using all my  perk points on trying to be stealthy so I could be better at hiding from zombies, and I wasn't sure what else I should put them in.  It took me a long time to "git gud", and even now I'm not as "gud" as some people who happily crank up their difficulty and horde sizes.  I can certainly understand why the developers would want to make things less frustratingly difficult for newbies, because a less stubborn newbie might have given up and played something else.  Making it easier to find your backpack or dig up that buried treasure might help a newbie stick with the game, while it's not going to make the blood moon hordes any easier to survive, or reduce the amount of radiated cops I need to deal with in a tier 5 POI, so it's not as if it's removing all the challenge for experienced players.  I'm fine with this.

Haha, great examples.  You sir as well as many others are persistent (including myself)...🤣

 

It's not surprising why some probably dont like some of the QoL improvements mentioned as half the fun of the game is the journey not the destination.

 

As an ex WoW player, I can see how too many usability features can spoil the player (looking at you floating quest markers lol).

 

It is my hope that TFPs find that ever so elusive sweet spot of hand holding the new player just enough to teach them the core mechanics before taking the training wheels off.  😀

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1 hour ago, TheRani said:

I'd die because I stepped on a land mine. 

To be honest, no matter how good we get Im sure we all still step on landmines lol.

 

Was playing with a friend not too long ago and we were raiding a poi and I was slowly walking up to it.  I saw some landmines and was like "Hey, watch where you st..." BOOM.  Needless to say he did not watch where he stepped.  He blew himself up 3-4 times during that session I believe.

 

And I know Ive stepped on plenty of mines myself as well.

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13 minutes ago, legolas141 said:

To be honest, no matter how good we get Im sure we all still step on landmines lol.

 

Was playing with a friend not too long ago and we were raiding a poi and I was slowly walking up to it.  I saw some landmines and was like "Hey, watch where you st..." BOOM.  Needless to say he did not watch where he stepped.  He blew himself up 3-4 times during that session I believe.

 

And I know Ive stepped on plenty of mines myself as well.

That reminds me of a quote:

There's no such thing as paranoia, as your worst fears can come true at any moment!

 

And that's part of the fun in 7D2D, you just never know what's going to happen next.  :)

4 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

*Scratches chin* Then what am I? Over 2,500 hours into 7D2D since A17, and I have not once touched mods, nor am I interested in them...

I guess that makes you a poor reader or a person that doesn't understand the word: Tend.

 

Or you're bored.  :) 

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4 hours ago, beHypE said:

Are they broken or really that superior like you pretend them to be ? Hell no, it's quite the opposite unless you're a totally beginner in first person shooters.

 

This, thank goodness the devs almost completely ignore us for balancing ideas, I felt like I was in loonyville reading those ideas around changing Junk Turret to nerf the living crap out of it to the point it being literally unusable. If it took gunpowder and only activated with a 1-2 block range it would be so hilariously useless it would make the Stun Baton look like the MvP weapon of the year. It would contend with Blunderbuss for it's spot as meme weapon of the game

 

Junk Turrets are fine the way they are, I say that as someone who uses the crap out of them and have done builds without them. I use them to save on ammo and to watch my back while I'm looting, not because they are OP. 

 

Explosives >>>>>>>>> Junk Turrets for taking out crowds. You can craft pipe bombs for basically free and take out 25 zombies near instantly. M60 can output way more damage than 2 Junk Turrets can too

 

Always kind of amusing / annoying to see people calling for Junk Turret nerfs and then ignoring explosives which are kind of the defacto horde deleter. Nearly every horde night strategy is just throwing a lot of explosives and whipping out the m60, but I don't think that makes them OP either. Junk Turrets are good for clearing PoI, but don't do anything a single shotgun can't do just as easily.

 

Honestly, on my current play through I would say my pump shotgun probably does more damage than my junk turrets do. They can tear through a group of zombies and use 2 thousand iron in the process, or I can just 1 hit kill them with a pump shotgun which is quite cheap to craft ammo for

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6 minutes ago, Khalagar said:

 

This, thank goodness the devs almost completely ignore us for balancing ideas, I felt like I was in loonyville reading those ideas around changing Junk Turret to nerf the living crap out of it to the point it being literally unusable. If it took gunpowder and only activated with a 1-2 block range it would be so hilariously useless it would make the Stun Baton look like the MvP weapon of the year. It would contend with Blunderbuss for it's spot as meme weapon of the game

 

Junk Turrets are fine the way they are, I say that as someone who uses the crap out of them and have done builds without them. I use them to save on ammo and to watch my back while I'm looting, not because they are OP. 

 

Explosives >>>>>>>>> Junk Turrets for taking out crowds. You can craft pipe bombs for basically free and take out 25 zombies near instantly. M60 can output way more damage than 2 Junk Turrets can too

 

Always kind of amusing / annoying to see people calling for Junk Turret nerfs and then ignoring explosives which are kind of the defacto horde deleter. Nearly every horde night strategy is just throwing a lot of explosives and whipping out the m60, but I don't think that makes them OP either. Junk Turrets are good for clearing PoI, but don't do anything a single shotgun can't do just as easily.

 

Honestly, on my current play through I would say my pump shotgun probably does more damage than my junk turrets do. They can tear through a group of zombies and use 2 thousand iron in the process, or I can just 1 hit kill them with a pump shotgun which is quite cheap to craft ammo for

Will be interesting to see if that is still the general consensus on junk turrets after A19 drops.  Since it is now a t2 item they wont be so plentiful like they are currently in A18 which is one reason call them OP....😀

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I'm so excited to try the Junk Sledge, I hope it scales well into end game as the viable Int melee weapon. It's technically a T1 but I feel like the junk line should be the exception where all 3 tiers are viable since they do 3 different jobs.

 

Junk Turret being mid game is fine anyway, it's ridiculously weak without perk investment. You need like 3-4 levels of the junk turret skill before it's even worth using imo, at least on the second highest difficulty. So getting one at level 1 currently in A18 is nice but doesn't really do a whole lot that a stone sledge or shotgun can't do easier imo

Edited by Khalagar (see edit history)
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4 hours ago, Perlin_Worm said:

For those who say the current game is not a challenge have the perspective of a player with hundreds of hours under their belt. The game, in fact, is very difficult for new players, everything from not finding a healing solution in time to food which is always scarce when you dont know the loot system. The dev team is in the difficult position to make the game challenging enough for seasoned players and at the same time, preventing the noobs from rage quitting after their first bleed out which happens almost immediately upon first zombie encounter.

An actual tutorial system would fix most of the newb rage quits.

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1 hour ago, Khalagar said:

Honestly, on my current play through I would say my pump shotgun probably does more damage than my junk turrets do. They can tear through a group of zombies and use 2 thousand iron in the process, or I can just 1 hit kill them with a pump shotgun which is quite cheap to craft ammo for

 

 

Funny that you mention this, as a matter of fact in my game after having taken all the points I wanted in the Int Tree, I went to try out the shotguns extensively. The double barrel is pretty terrible, but the pump is actually very good (and very rare, only found 1 before buying the schematic after 50 hours of playtime). With slugs not needing any brass, that means you basically have infinite ammunition (polymers are a breeze) if you put in the time needed to craft them, and with the right mods, it's surprinsigly accurate.

 

And yeah... My 2 junk turrets protect the drawbridge entrance of my base, and at that they are perfect for screamers but... I just don't use them in POIs anymore, and I'm clearing them faster by a pretty large margin. Junk drones might really add to the experience, and so will the Tier 3.

 

By the way, the junk turrets often make the zombies die standing up, which is annoying. I think it mostly happens when they die during the animation of getting stunned and/or getting up from a stun. @faatal :D

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2 hours ago, legolas141 said:

To be honest, no matter how good we get Im sure we all still step on landmines lol.

 

Was playing with a friend not too long ago and we were raiding a poi and I was slowly walking up to it.  I saw some landmines and was like "Hey, watch where you st..." BOOM.  Needless to say he did not watch where he stepped.  He blew himself up 3-4 times during that session I believe.

 

And I know Ive stepped on plenty of mines myself as well.

I take it you've never tried using your wrench to harvest them instead....?

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5 minutes ago, beHypE said:

Junk drones might really add to the experience, and so will the Tier 3.

Iirc Junk Drone = the Tier 3.

Junk Sledge > Junk Turret > Junk Drone

2 minutes ago, Roland said:

I take it you've never tried using your wrench to harvest them instead....?

??? You're kidding right? We can do that without being blown up?

Edited by hiemfire (see edit history)
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2 minutes ago, hiemfire said:

Iirc Junk Drone = the Tier 3.

Junk Sledge > Junk Turret > Junk Drone

 

Junk Drone is the Tier 3, but it's not combat focused, which is why I want all 3 to be viable and am scared Junk Sledge will be outclassed end game by a Steel Sledge build.

 

The Junk line has 3 tiers like everything else, but they cover 3 different niches entirely.

 

Junk Sledge = Melee

 

Junk Turret = Ranged

 

Junk Drone = Healing and Floating Storage box, it's for support

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11 minutes ago, Khalagar said:

 

Junk Drone is the Tier 3, but it's not combat focused, which is why I want all 3 to be viable and am scared Junk Sledge will be outclassed end game by a Steel Sledge build.

 

The Junk line has 3 tiers like everything else, but they cover 3 different niches entirely.

 

Junk Sledge = Melee

 

Junk Turret = Ranged

 

Junk Drone = Healing and Floating Storage box, it's for support

That's because they leave the player's hands free to hold an additional weapon. You cannot just compare the robotics alone with other trees. If Junk Sledges were equal to Sledgehammers and the Int guy could have two junk sledges working plus hold a sledgehammer himself that would be way beyond just a sledgehammer alone.

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