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Alpha 19 Dev Diary

Roland

When you download A19 you MUST start a new save. Maps generated in A18 will NOT work for A19 games. 

 

Head HERE to report bugs.

Message added by Roland

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12 minutes ago, Guppys Fur said:

 

I dont like to jump on a hate-train before i layed Hands on A19 before it is out, but this really sounds like BS.

If you want increase Gas Usage, but 60% more Food Drain?

 

Cmon Guys...

Yes i read your Story with your vacation Fataal, but Gamewise this doesnt make ANY sense considering you guys took out food Poisening "because it made no fun and felt cheesy"

It makes perfect sense to me, but if you want to remove it, it is defined in vehicles.xml for each vehicle.

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Posted (edited)

(edit: In A18) Food is important in managing what you do early game to somewhere around mid game.

When I have more food I mine more.

 

Now in A19, there will be other food aspects you have to think about:

-Going on missions far away need to be reconsidered.

-Non Mission POI clearing near your base, will become a natural choice.

 

Edited by Aldranon (see edit history)

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15 minutes ago, Guppys Fur said:

 

I dont like to jump on a hate-train before i layed Hands on A19 before it is out, but this really sounds like BS.

If you want increase Gas Usage, but 60% more Food Drain?

 

Cmon Guys...

Yes i read your Story with your vacation Fataal, but Gamewise this doesnt make ANY sense considering you guys took out food Poisening "because it made no fun and felt cheesy"

I had a similar first reaction but I thought about it some more and the increase in consumption is versus standing still which is probably fine.  Will need to play it to see how it actually feels before I say anything further on it.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

I had a similar first reaction but I thought about it some more and the increase in consumption is versus standing still which is probably fine.  Will need to play it to see how it actually feels before I say anything further on it.

I think it makes sense, just not quite so much of a percentage increase.   I like it, just seems like a bit too much.  I think 10 percent or 20 percent would feel a bit more natural while still adding something else to consider for trips and your food supply.

Edited by SnowDog1942 (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

I had a similar first reaction but I thought about it some more and the increase in consumption is versus standing still which is probably fine.  Will need to play it to see how it actually feels before I say anything further on it.

It is referencing sprinting on foot when sprinting in a vehicle. Lead footed drivers that don't keep their character's food reserves (if that still exists in A19) topped up are going to hate it (x1.6 above normal sprint on food consumption lead foot tax on the near suspensionless minibike). To those of us who don't lay into the throttle unless really needed (@%$*#! you buzzards) shouldn't mind the x1.25 over early game waiting on the morning to start and the night spawned ferals to commit seppuku cost to cruise to a target POI or to recon around.

Edited by hiemfire (see edit history)

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16 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

I had a similar first reaction but I thought about it some more and the increase in consumption is versus standing still which is probably fine.  Will need to play it to see how it actually feels before I say anything further on it.

Im torn on it to be honest, I have driven a lot for work in my life and you do get hungry and you want to eat.

 

You combine this on a beat up car/bike that is cobbled together and bad roads, hazards all the time, where am i going to get fuel from ect it does make sense.

 

Maybe the total % is a bit high but we shall have to wait and see how it goes is all.

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, faatal said:

Vehicles got some attention the last two days:

 

Added vehicle driving increases food consumption (added vehicles.xml foodDrain (normal,turbo), driving tag and _vehicleFood cvar).

Fixed SDTD-12623 Vehicles remember the player velocity when falling. (a19 bug)
Fixed vehicle physics not transferred when client or server took control (stuck gyrocopters).

Fixed vehicle engine would not stop if broken.

Added players exiting vehicles retain most velocity.
Added vehicles keep full velocity when driver exits and no wheel on ground.

Changed: Driving a vehicle adds 25% to your base food/water drain that you normally lose just standing around. Sprinting a vehicle adds 60% (minibike) to 40% (gyro) of the food/water drain that you would have while sprinting on foot. (Gazz)

 

Yes, driving vehicles in the dirty, rundown, apocalyptic world now consumes food.

How about implementing a more logic solution, and using more gas instead of food?

You know, like any normal person would expect those mechanics to work?

 

If you need a resource sink for food, there are lots of other activities the consumption could increase. (runnning, mining, salvaging, building, slapping etc)

Edited by Damocles (see edit history)

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1 hour ago, JCrook1028 said:

I assume we can thank the people driving away from horde night for this new silliness? Why else would food usage increase when we use less energy ourselves. ...sigh...

i mean they could let extra people test it

 

;)

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@fataal Since you are looking at vehicles, can you please put the headlight on the gyro? Even if it's not in the model, at least having it work would help us night flyers.

(And angled down a bit would be much more useful than straight ahead.)

 

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Would be also nice for the vehicles to use the actual physics based inertia (when off the ground), so it would be possible to do stunt jumps, pin it around etc.

Or are the limits to the game mechanics / networking to allow that?

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I hit something on the motorbike the other day that made me do a 360 degree skid. that was unexpected. I was on a rampage smacking down any z I could find so was doing all sorts of random controller movements. one day I am going to build a loop de loop and see if a vehicle can go around it. I reckon that would be classy way to build a zombie proof vehicle entrance... I am assuming they cant walk on the roof yet.

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6 minutes ago, Damocles said:

Would be also nice for the vehicles to use the actual physics based inertia (when off the ground), so it would be possible to do stunt jumps, pin it around etc.

Or are the limits to the game mechanics / networking to allow that?

That would be cool, but I think that would need a major change to the physics engine, voxels are such a pain to work with sometimes.

 

If some one could make a game with the building, mining, zombies, gameplay of 7D2D,  nearly unlimited textures, massive buildings, huge world, made to explore and destroy with Unreal Engine 5 Graphics, real world physics and water simulation. 

 

That would be awesome.

 

I hate these massive worlds and are stunning to look at but they are static.... feels like a movie to me.

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2 hours ago, faatal said:

Vehicles got some attention the last two days:

 

Added vehicle driving increases food consumption (added vehicles.xml foodDrain (normal,turbo), driving tag and _vehicleFood cvar).

Fixed SDTD-12623 Vehicles remember the player velocity when falling. (a19 bug)
Fixed vehicle physics not transferred when client or server took control (stuck gyrocopters).

Fixed vehicle engine would not stop if broken.

Added players exiting vehicles retain most velocity.
Added vehicles keep full velocity when driver exits and no wheel on ground.

Changed: Driving a vehicle adds 25% to your base food/water drain that you normally lose just standing around. Sprinting a vehicle adds 60% (minibike) to 40% (gyro) of the food/water drain that you would have while sprinting on foot. (Gazz)

 

Yes, driving vehicles in the dirty, rundown, apocalyptic world now consumes food.

More food and water drain while driving sounds okay vs standing still... holding down the gas peddle and all. 

 

A large increase from that for sprinting I am not sure about.  I do not think you do that much more work making a vehicle go faster heh.  I would think that would be more of a fuel drain kinda thing. 

 

Granted, none of this affects me, because I almost never use vehicles. 

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@faatal, this food consumption, does it only affect the driver or will it also affect the passenger (4x4)?

If only affects driver then guess who has two thumbs and will be getting chauffeured around?

 

 

Um, you can't see me aiming my thumbs at myself...so ah....it's um yeah, me

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7 minutes ago, Annihilatorza said:

That would be cool, but I think that would need a major change to the physics engine, voxels are such a pain to work with sometimes.

 

If some one could make a game with the building, mining, zombies, gameplay of 7D2D,  nearly unlimited textures, massive buildings, huge world, made to explore and destroy with Unreal Engine 5 Graphics, real world physics and water simulation. 

 

That would be awesome.

 

I hate these massive worlds and are stunning to look at but they are static.... feels like a movie to me.

The physics are not really in conflict with the voxel system, as long as the total speed is not too high (so the chunks can update).

The voxels generate collision meshes (mesh colliders), so the physics can run just fine in conjunction with them - just as is other games with static levels.

 

Once the vehicles leaves the ground (jumping over a big enough bump) it could in my opinion switch to standard rigidbody physics. This would allow for nice playerbuild stunt parcours, and all kinds of funny moments.

When on ground, and not moving,  the game could flip the vehicle upside again if needed.

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1 minute ago, Damocles said:

The physics are not really in conflict with the voxel system, as long as the total speed is not too high (so the chunks can update).

The voxels generate collision meshes (mesh colliders), so the physics can run just fine in conjunction with them - just as is other games with static levels.

 

Once the vehicles leaves the ground (jumping over a big enough bump) it could in my opinion switch to standard rigidbody physics. This would allow for nice playerbuild stunt parcours, and all kinds of funny moments.

When on ground, and not moving,  the game could flip the vehicle upside again if needed.

Good idea but I doubt it will happen, I think they just want to get it done TM :)

 

Maybe in 7D2D2 :p

 

 

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8 minutes ago, pregnable said:

More food and water drain while driving sounds okay vs standing still... holding down the gas peddle and all. 

 

A large increase from that for sprinting I am not sure about.  I do not think you do that much more work making a vehicle go faster heh.  I would think that would be more of a fuel drain kinda thing. 

 

Granted, none of this affects me, because I almost never use vehicles. 

Find a firebreak road, old dirt road out in the back hills or a road that hasn't been repaved for a couple of years. Drive down it for a little without pushing your vehicle for a bit and then floor it and assess the difference...

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1 hour ago, Damocles said:

How about implementing a more logic solution, and using more gas instead of food?

You know, like any normal person would expect those mechanics to work?

 

If you need a resource sink for food, there are lots of other activities the consumption could increase. (runnning, mining, salvaging, building, slapping etc)

Those are not bad suggestions.  My gut tells me this is a design test to to address multiple things and will likely change again once vehicle mods are implemented.  *shrugs*

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23 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

Those are not bad suggestions.  My gut tells me this is a design test to to address multiple things and will likely change again once vehicle mods are implemented.  *shrugs*

Mods to reduce food consumption while driving, lol, GG

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Who cares if it makes that much sense or not. Yes the numbers are over the top in terms of realism but if it adds anything to food being an absolute non-issue after a while (hint : after you don't run no more), that's cool for me.

 

Regarding vehicles, could the gyro be a little bit better on the road ? Just parking the damn thing is a chore, the reverse gear is terrible...

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Talking about the Gyro, I think it is pretty controllable and I am satisfied with how it works. However, the noise it makes is absolutely horrible. Usually you take the Gyro for long distance travellings that take some minutes (in real life) and to be honest, I always mute my headphones when using the Gyro.

 

About the increased food and water consumption when using a vehicle... we all know that this does not make any sense at all realism-wise but I am glad that the problem with a too easy food game has been realized. Just the way to address this is very weird and very wrong to me. Why not just decrease the chance to find canned food, drinks and other ready-to-use foodstuff in the world to begin with? Why punish the usage of vehicles when this is the only possibility to explore the HUGE maps? It certainly cannot be intended by the developers to make the players only play on 10 % of the map. Sitting in a vehicle for hours (in game) is boring enough already, taking away even more motivation to explore the map does not feel right to me. If anything should be increased by 60 % then it is the Gyro's speed 🙂

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, PoloPoPo said:

Why not just decrease the chance to find canned food, drinks and other ready-to-use foodstuff in the world to begin with? Why punish the usage of vehicles when this is the only possibility to explore the HUGE maps? It certainly cannot be intended by the developers to make the players only play on 10 % of the map. Sitting in a vehicle for hours (in game) is boring enough already, taking away even more motivation to explore the map does not feel right to me. If anything should be increased by 60 % then it is the Gyro's speed 🙂

Because that would create a new problem, which is reducing very early game food even further. I don't know how solo plays out but the first 10 hours are pretty challenging as a group and there have been changes for A19 that already make it even harder (reducing food in vending machines). One of the benefits of this method is that the new food sink only kicks in once foot has become less of a concern, not at the very beginning when food already is the biggest challenge. And let's be honest it does absolutely make sense at least for the bicycle.

 

Moreover I don't get that issue about "exploring huge maps is boring". You either like exploring or you... don't ? Just like IRL, part of the charm of going somewhere you're not used to go is the fact that you actually go there. Pretty sure beach / mountains / other countries would be way less charming if you could just teleport there whenever you want. Besides if you really want that instant gratification, you can use the map viewer provided by the game before exploring.

And it's not like it's slow to begin with, once you have a motorcycle or better, Navezgane isn't even 5 minutes from one end to the other. If you play 8k maps, then there's probably plenty of stuff to explore in between ?

Edited by beHypE (see edit history)

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2 hours ago, Adam the Waster said:

i mean they could let extra people test it

 

;)

A lot of people will test it when A19 experimental is released.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Nfg said:

I completely agree, thus the joke. With a company as small as TFP, I'm sure they already have a few hard core penguins on staff. 

 

From the numbers I've seen for most companies, it's usually something like Linux users are less than 0.1% of the user base and over 20% of the support tickets. I'm honestly a bit surprised this game works on Linux. If they were going to hire full time staff just to support weird things, they would get a way, way, way higher RoI to just hire someone who knows consoles to port the updates to consoles. There's still a weirdly high amount of people who insist on playing the ancient console version, judging by every TFP Tweet having 400 "WHERE'S MY CONSOLE UPDATE" comments

Edited by Khalagar (see edit history)
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3 minutes ago, beHypE said:

Because that would create a new problem, which is reducing very early game food even further. I don't know how solo plays out but the first 10 hours are pretty challenging as a group and there have been changes for A19 that already make it even harder (reducing food in vending machines). One of the benefits of this method is that the new food sind only kicks in once foot is less of a concern, not at the very beginning when food already is the biggest challenge. And let's be honest it does absolutely make sense at least for the bicycle.

If you are really in need of food you will always find some eggs and an animal to hunt and voilà, enjoy your bacon and eggs. To be fair, it should be more like it is at the very first days. Either you hunt with weak weapons which can be quite exciting and dangerous or you run the risk of starving.

 

"And let's be honest it does absolutely make sense at least for the bicycle."

--> No, it still does not make sense. Jogging burns more calories than cycling.

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