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Alpha 19 Dev Diary


madmole

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The problem is there's no way to make all guns really effective. The machine guns are the best guns in the game, because they cover absolutely every situation you'll ever find yourself into when playing against zombies. One zombie, multiple zombies, close, far, running, walking, it has it all covered. You can even attach a scope to it and have a perfect sniper...

 

It wouldn't be so bad if the whole skill tree wasn't designed around having to pick your weapon depending on your specialization. Let's face it, perception is just terrible for every-day gameplay. Snipers are a no-no for POI looting, explosives are useful on horde nights only and the spear is... well, quite quickly not that useful. 

Int is not that much different. Stun batons are terrible, and while 2 junks turrets definitely do work, it's so situational to use them. You need decent space and a "choke point", if you fall into a trap it's super tough to deploy them quickly, if zombies cross the deployment point, you have to run in circles to bring them back into line of sight... I mean, on day 23 (2 hour days) I very often just kill zombies with my unspecced AK47 as a pure int build, because... well, it gets the job done with so much less of a hassle.

 

I hope A19 fixes most of those issues with the new weapons. But I doubt snipers will ever be useful outside of very niche situations, for the game doesn't offer long-range threats on a regular basis.

 

Edited by beHypE (see edit history)
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26 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

If you simply increase magazine size on the sniper rifle it just becomes an M60 with a different texture.

Well, it becomes a holy terror is what would happen if you were a perked out sniper build!  (Using A18 perks, don't know what A19 brings).

 

That it would be THE OP build, tells me that it will never happen.  

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22 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

It is true that machine guns are the swiss army knife of the 7D2D repertoire. Shotguns come in a close second, but are, obviously, only effective at short range. Of course, what shouldn't be the objective is making every weapon as effective as the machine guns, since they would just turn into machine guns, just with different skins, as what's been mentioned before. What matters is making every other specialized weapon "good enough" (with the current system we have at least), and for some of them (marksman rifle, magnum; perhaps the T3 sniper rifle and the desert vulture will solve this issue though), they just don't cut it in most situations. Whatever is done though, there will always be issues; a rifle, no matter how you class it in a perk system, will never be able to handle 64 or even 32 max alive hordes without assistance, for example.

(Even madmole admits this; I recall in one of his videos he said, and I quote, "I don't care what build you're going for, it's always good to have a fully automatic weapon on you.")

Agreed. I could see the sniper rifle holding up if its headshot did get some bonus similar to AGI/stealth and/or it did get a crippling chance bonus to any limb.

 

I would even make automatic guns have the disadvantage that their headshots do less bonus damage than every other weapon in the game, lets say only 125%. Their DPS and versatility would still be unparalleled but, well, their achilles heel of using lots of ammo could not be avoided in any situation.

 

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)
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I feel like the Magnum/Deagle can really be balanced to be good. With a bigger magazine through mods and if you make each bullet really effective, it would be a high skill floor / high reward type of gun. Not forgiving if you miss your shots but powerful if you know how to aim.

 

Snipers are just tough to balance because their intrinsic strengths aren't of much use in this game.

 

Maybe the solution is to add downfalls to machine guns, like overheating, reducing damage, reducing precision or something. Cause they quite frankly have no drawbacks unless you're short on gunpowder (which, let's face it, is a pretty easy thing to fix, just mine lol).

Edited by beHypE (see edit history)
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2 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

You gotcha. Currently, the magnum is awful (opening that can of worms again), but instead of making it as effective as machine guns (which would just mean turning them into machine guns), it just has to be effective. Heck, even in games like Call of Duty, which guns do most people use? Fully automatic weapons.

Well, if we look at the magnum's "image" as the gun Clint Eastwood uses to throw bad guys 10 meters through a room I would increase the magnums stopping power. I.e. the magnum should push back and even ragdoll enemies more than any other gun. The sledgehammer of guns so to speak. Wait, didn't even Sledge Hammer use a magnum? There you go.

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4 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

You gotcha. Currently, the magnum is awful (opening that can of worms again), but instead of making it as effective as machine guns (which would just mean turning them into machine guns), it just has to be effective. Heck, even in games like Call of Duty, which guns do most people use? Fully automatic weapons.

I think the main gripe over heard about magnums is the spinning of the chamber after reload as it adds time to the reload and is not practical.

 

Although the devs could remove it, I think it's part of the tongue in cheek humor that the devs have for the game so I really dont mind it so much.

 

Will see how it feels now that it is no longer the top tier pistol (e.g. desert vulture)

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On 6/2/2020 at 9:57 PM, madmole said:

We've done a little bit of loot cleanup like removing harvest items from loot. There is no point in finding 3 coal in chemical loot when you can get 1000's in seconds mining.

Another blow struck against us poor scavengers by the tyrannical pro-mining lobby!

 

Well it won't work. You'll have to press those mining tools into my cold dead hands.

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1 hour ago, MechanicalLens said:

<rant>

And that's my rant on the magnum over. 😛

While damage IS a bit too low, the problem can't be reduced to only this if we want really distinct weapons

 

I have a problem with handling the magnum. I don't know why but I can do headshots with a pistol no problem, but I often fail with the magnum. The magnum feels overly clumsy. Is it because the magnun takes too much screen space? Is it the crosshair? Don't know, I'll have to test that again.

 

For me "winning" a horde night is not about killing as much zombies as possible, it is stopping the zombies from doing damage until morning. There are lots of guns for the kill-em-all strategy in the game but not really much in the crowd-control category.

I could imagine the magnum filling the role of a weapon to keep the zombies simply away from the base by throwing them down on the ground or far back. And in normal POI clearance the AGI player could use the magnum as an Oh-@%$*#! weapon when surrounded. But for that it would need stopping power³

 

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)
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3 hours ago, beHypE said:

 

Serious question, why are we adding demolishers and bandits since those are most likely a 5% feature ? Is it only marketing, to show "the game has bandits" so that people buy the game ? Because if not, something's fishy about the logic of not adding stuff that concerns a minority.

 

Who says a Low level solo bandit cant show up on day 4  using a wrench as weapon?

Edited by SnowDog1942 (see edit history)
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3 hours ago, Deadalready said:

I read this as:

It's too hard to polish up the gun mechanics so it's not going to be changed

I'll only point out that you made that up. I said nothing of the sort.

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8 minutes ago, SnowDog1942 said:

Who says a Low level solo bandit cant show up on day 4  using a wrench as weapon?

We could sell them landmines and watch fireworks from distance.

Man, I can`t wait for bandits, zeds are cool to be aware from, but bandits ? I wonder in what sort of events they will spawn eventually... 

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On 6/3/2020 at 11:12 PM, Laz Man said:

Would it be possible to make something spawn in after opening them just like how buried supplies quests work?  

Of course, but it takes time. We want to do something like that at some point.

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3 minutes ago, madmole said:

Of course, but it takes time. We want to do something like that at some point.

Sounds awesome, you may include wildlife, too. The smell/sound/activity from something new in the surrounding habitat could attract wolfs, boars, rabbits. And vultures, of course. 

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1 hour ago, A Nice Cup of Tea said:

Another blow struck against us poor scavengers by the tyrannical pro-mining lobby!

 

Well it won't work. You'll have to press those mining tools into my cold dead hands.

I'm sure you won't mind the gunpowder you find though instead of coal.

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21 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

Glad to hear that gunpowder is sticking through. :) Finding 40+ gunpowder in a medical supply loot container is never anything to complain about.

I really love that fact that the ones and twos are been removed of raw materials, as most people just dump them to make space anyway.

 

The Magnum does need work but they have said its gotten a whole model in A19 so maybe they have reworked the stats.

 

For me the Magnum should a step below the Desert Eagle now in stopping power, you get shot with it and you know you have been kissed.

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6 hours ago, Matt 1977 said:

Elevator still a possibility

 

Pls pls pls pls

 

As someone who lives at Bedrock, add Elevators or just undo the fix to the Hatch Frame Elevator. I dunno why that one was even patched, it was so useful. It literally takes me like 40 seconds to reach the top of the ladder to get out of my base, and uses my entire stamina bar even at level 40+. Elevators, or teleporters, just some way to yeet myself to the surface quickly.

 

Rest in peace, janky as sin Hatchframe Elevator Exploit™

Edited by Khalagar (see edit history)
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