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madmole

Alpha 19 Dev Diary

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But...YOU'RE in the region and you aren't destroyed...

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It's pretty much lore that we spawn in the Forest now isn't it?

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Posted (edited)
On 5/27/2020 at 3:26 PM, unlike them said:

I recently decided that traders currently bring more bad than good to the game, so I started playing without them. When we have more fleshed out NPC, White River clan, bandits, better quests, then traders would be justified. Currently they bring weird problems/mechanics:

- the concept of invulnerable blocks/POIs

- the magic POI restoration/loot respawn and gimmicky double looting of a POI, which became a new standard

- the magic teleporting after 22:00

- the 'problem' of too many foods in store, 'solved' by introducing magic 'candies'

- exploits of 'secret stash' (putting on/removing nerdy glasses)

- the current quests we have are beyond primitive, even by sandbox standards

- traders/quests make the game easier, so people often see no point to build a base anywhere but next to a trader

- the opportunity to buy the things you need, instead of looting it, results in a scheduled routine of visiting every trader after the restock cooldown.

 

We can argue about the last point, as having more than one way to gain things enriches the game. Maybe yes, but I decided that I prefer the old way of looting/crafting. So when I found that Nitrogen has an option to build maps without traders, I did it. But you also need to use a modlet to remove the 'find a trader' quest with this opiton.

Yeah, agree on a lot of that.

Quote

 "- the concept of invulnerable blocks/POIs"

Would be pretty cool if they did it like quest poi's. *Get done with a quest? it gets rebuilt/restocked.*

In the Trader case: if they get wiped out? 'x' days pass. Trader outpost gets rebuilt and a new trader respawns.

Could even be a T5 quest, on guarding the trader from a zombie hoard.

Win? get quest line to rebuild the outpost. get sweet reward once complete.

Fail? Well. Now you all need to wait for a few days till they restore a new outpost in that location and then a trader respawns.

Quote

 "- the magic POI restoration/loot respawn and gimmicky double looting of a POI, which became a new standard" 

  Yeah, again. Need to put that on a timer. Days pass by, then restore it. So its, not so easily done.

Quote

- traders/quests make the game easier, so people often see no point to build a base anywhere but next to a trader

Night time comes? and a player(s) is near a trader outpost? Trader announces they have left the building and horde is on its way (trader despawn) 

Player(s) get a massive wandering horde event at that location.

You survive? good on the player(s)! they wasted a whole bunch of ammo defending an empty outpost.

Outpost gets smashed? well, got to wait a few days for it to restore.

oh? Player(s) are still near the location the next night? guess they are getting hordes every night till they leave the area..  

Quote

- the opportunity to buy the things you need, instead of looting it, results in a scheduled routine of visiting every trader after the restock cooldown.

Yeah, I would like it, if they all had their own restock timer, and it didn't sync all the others. 

Edited by Tin (see edit history)

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2 hours ago, Ranzera said:

It only makes sense in a game balance perspective.

 

You know what I expect to find in a burned out forest and a leveled city? Scrap and garbage. You know what I expect to find in intact buildings in barely touched neighborhoods? Great quality stuff.

 

Only when we need to game-ify things does putting good/great things into destroyed regions make sense. Otherwise, whatever destroyed the region would logically destroy whatever you find in that region.

Movies and books do it all the time.  Probably mostly for entertainment.  Video games are no different in that regard.  Too much realism isnt always fun.

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7 hours ago, MechanicalLens said:

I'd like to propose a toast for 7 years in alpha and another 7 years in beta. 🍷

That would be a hard no. Hopefully the sequel will be gold in 7 years.

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15 hours ago, EffiJeffy said:

@faatal Hello ,is it possible to fix this bug until a19 exp hits? Basically the bug is that traders get affected by the knockdown effect from sledgehammers/bats.They will fall to the ground after they are hit and they can bug under the ground.Players use this bug to sabotage traders on PVE/PVP servers.

It seems to be fixed in a19. If you are asking for it before a19, there are no plans to release any other versions of a18.

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3 hours ago, MechanicalLens said:

Then by that logic, from what I understand of you putting forth, the wasteland biome will have garbage loot and everything good would be found in the untouched regions, such as the forest biome. That would be a gameplay/balance dilemma since the biome you're supposed to start out in would then be the end-game, and all other biomes would be wastes of space. Again, gameplay has to trump realism here.

(Maybe roleplay a bit if you find this difficult to believe? Perhaps bandits stashed all their good %$!# in the wasteland biome or whatever.)

Yeah, the wasteland should realistically have either garbage or no loot. It's not like Forest would be the only one to have loot. I would think the Snow, Forest and Desert (or *coughplainscough*) biomes would have better loot in general and be on an even keel.

 

Realistically, the bandits would have run you out of the Forest in the start because why would they decide to set up shop in a hostile biome? They'd leave the @%$*#! places for the weaklings not in their order. They'd make you fight your way into their territories.

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, madmole said:

 

 

Looks great! It's shocking how dated A18 looks after seeing A19. I never really looked at the weapons that closely until I saw the new ones, A19 looks a decade newer! The weapons and lighting both look tremendously upgraded, and it seems like a lot of stuff got upgrades like the forge, terrain, walls etc all look newer, may just be the new lighting system in action

 

oDNCEoz.jpg

 

Did I miss something mentioned before, or what is this battleaxe O_o

 

Tier 3 Machete? Also digging the Jeep map marker!!

Edited by Khalagar (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

Like I said, gameplay over realism. By this logic the wasteland would just be a waste of space. Why go there if there is no reason to go there in the first place?

Because it'd be the only place the Bandits don't run you out. It'd be a more realistic start place imo. A hostile area the Bandits don't desire to be in. What's worse, some zeds or dudes with guns?

Edited by Ranzera (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

I'm not getting into the whole super realism argument, alright? Have yourself a good one, and hopefully A19 suits your fancy as much as it does mine. 🙂

(You have to think of the little player too, you know; you know, the vast majority? How would you think a new player would feel if they died to land mines, zombie bears and dogs, vultures, etc. on their first day, and it never stopped? Most would quit the game and not recommend it to anyone. That is a realistic scenario.)

You're commenting a lot for saying you're not going to argue.

 

(You are awfully stuck in the present. You have to think of how the environment and game balance mechanics would, you know, change? How do you think the biome might change if the wasteland was a starting area? Most would end up having an actual goal in this game beyond surviving the horde. That is a realistic scenario.)

 

Have yourself a good one, and hopefully A19 suits your fancy as much as it probably will mine. ;-*

Edited by Ranzera (see edit history)
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We're not changing the game around based on a random "what if". =P

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Just now, Gazz said:

We're not changing the game around based on a random "what if". =P

Well, at least not until the next Bethesda game comes out anyway.

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52 minutes ago, madmole said:

That would be a hard no. Hopefully the sequel will be gold in 7 years.

Any general story line you guys have for the sequel?

Could we assume the character "Won" 7D2D part 1?

 

Starting out in a small but growing settlement that needs your protection would be interesting.

If that settlement happened to be on the New Jersey side of New York City would be completely, totally amazing. 

If the city had a literal "Upper Class" who ruled the city from the upper floors of skyscrapers that were interconnected by crude bridges.

And only the elite had Airships (of course!)

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36 minutes ago, Ranzera said:

You're commenting a lot for saying you're not going to argue.

 

(You are awfully stuck in the present. You have to think of how the environment and game balance mechanics would, you know, change? How do you think the biome might change if the wasteland was a starting area? Most would end up having an actual goal in this game beyond surviving the horde. That is a realistic scenario.)

 

Have yourself a good one, and hopefully A19 suits your fancy as much as it probably will mine. ;-*

I'm not sure why you feel that the burned biome and the wasteland biome wouldn't have anything good?  You say it would all get burnt up or nuked but that is not the case with buildings and structures. There are plenty of partially intact and almost fully intact buildings and if you think about it realistically everyone would have fled the fires leaving their posessions behind and in the areas of POIs where it isn't all burned up there could still be good stuff. Same with the wasteland. The bombing killed everyone who didn't quickly evacuate leaving all their possessions behind.

 

Why would all the best stuff be there? Because the zombies and dogs and mutated infected moved into those locations making it too difficult to go in and scavenge so it is still all there. It isn't difficult to turn a backstory any way you want it to support the gameplay decisions you are wanting to make.

 

And when it comes down to it the forest is serene and beautiful and the burnt forest and wasteland are spooky and scary so they intuitively feel like they should be the way TFP is choosing to go with difficulty.

 

I suppose they COULD adopt your narrative and invert all the difficulties but why should they when it is very simple to come up with an alternative narrative that makes sense and supports what they want to do anyway?

7 minutes ago, Aldranon said:

 

Could we assume the character "Won" 7D2D part 1?

 

@Gazz won't let us win. He'll set things up so that all the math approaches infinity as the player approaches winning....

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8 hours ago, Khalagar said:

 

I've never really understood the push from fans for it to hit 1.0. The prolonged alpha / Early Access has been fantastic for us as customers. We get tons of free content every few months that overhauls the game and gives us reasons to come back and do a whole new build a few times a year.

 

I basically don't buy anything that's not early access anymore specifically because of that. With "finished" games you play it once, put 40-100 hours in it, call it good, then probably never play it again. With early access games you put 40-100 hours in it each "run" and then come back every time there's an update and put another 40-100 hours in it to see all the new stuff, then take a break until the next big update and repeat

Hah. Good one.

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7 minutes ago, Roland said:

...

@Gazz won't let us win. He'll set things up so that all the math approaches infinity as the player approaches winning....

Sounds like Gazz read John D. Rockefeller's play book!

When asked "How much money is enough?" the man with 1% of America's wealth said: "Just a little bit more". 😆

 

I'm sure once all TFP start working on "Al's Marina vs The Apocalypse"-- er, a Part 2, we will have a way to "Win".   

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14 minutes ago, Roland said:

I'm not sure why you feel that the burned biome and the wasteland biome wouldn't have anything good?  You say it would all get burnt up or nuked but that is not the case with buildings and structures. There are plenty of partially intact and almost fully intact buildings and if you think about it realistically everyone would have fled the fires leaving their posessions behind and in the areas of POIs where it isn't all burned up there could still be good stuff. Same with the wasteland. The bombing killed everyone who didn't quickly evacuate leaving all their possessions behind.

 

Why would all the best stuff be there? Because the zombies and dogs and mutated infected moved into those locations making it too difficult to go in and scavenge so it is still all there. It isn't difficult to turn a backstory any way you want it to support the gameplay decisions you are wanting to make.

 

And when it comes down to it the forest is serene and beautiful and the burnt forest and wasteland are spooky and scary so they intuitively feel like they should be the way TFP is choosing to go with difficulty.

 

I suppose they COULD adopt your narrative and invert all the difficulties but why should they when it is very simple to come up with an alternative narrative that makes sense and supports what they want to do anyway?

@Gazz won't let us win. He'll set things up so that all the math approaches infinity as the player approaches winning....

The buildings are all half wrecked or worse, but the narrative is that the bombs and fires somehow *didn't* destroy the loot inside, but instead means that loot is somehow *more* valuable? That sounds like an argument a Florida real estate agent might make in the apocalypse. I'm not buying it, not for .2 seconds. All the best loot is in the flooded hurricane areas right? Same concept here.

 

I get the feeling that anytime anyone thinks about "Bandits," what they are actually picturing are Psychos from Borderlands. Bandits are going to be your disaster refugees that banded together to survive by means of force. They are about as likely to stake out a living in a wasteland or a burned forest as you are going to seek a career in coal mining.

 

I'm just picturing what reasoning people would do in an apocalypse when they had a near monopoly of force. They'd keep the best stuff for themselves and leave the rest to starve. The Forest is the prime real estate in this game and you can bet your @%$*#! if this were a real world simulation, they'd be there and they'd round up everyone else and force them into the undesirable places.

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