Alpha 19 Dev Diary

[n2n1]

14 hours ago, madmole said:

...

The fact is nobody on the team liked it. It was too demoralizing to lose all your food over something random, you didn't really do anything wrong and you got punished and food is very scarce on MP servers so its not the same as SP. Rotten food will damage your health.

....
 

 

I also believe that often players ask for what they don't understand. When this is implemented it doesn't work like in the imagination.

Even if it somehow works on the game mechanics - it will just be annoying in the end.

The solution will require something - it will be refrigerators... and then the solution will take us back, where we will be able to store food for a long time.

But this will happen exactly when this deficit is no needed.

 

I wouldn't want to get it even in vanilla.

...Maybe it can work somewhere, but for this - need to change a lot. 

 

[4sheetzngeegles]

MM
Would it be possible to do a time lapse of A19 showing the linear lighting for a full day.

Approx 175 speed at 120 days should be about a minute, out side in a rotating direction.
If so can you include an animated view of a short internal walk with a torch then a flashlight.

Ive been readjusting the gradients on my game so that I can use 0 gamma.

4Sheetz

[SnowDog1942]

5 hours ago, DaVegaNL said:

 

WAIT, you're a cop??

You can arrest me anytime, mister!

Honestly, I'm not a cop --  but I have a uniform and cuffs

[Adam the Waster]

Just now, SnowDog1942 said:

Honestly, I'm not a cop --  but I have a uniform and cuffs

[Gamida]

5 hours ago, Annihilatorza said:

Just some food for thought hey Roland 😛

 

The Fun Pimps have never said that the 7D2D will be a hard core survival sim, where you have to fight for every scrap of food and water.

 

I hate it in games where I have to drink water and eat constantly to keep up the bars, it becomes very annoying very quickly.

 

As this is still an alpha they can and will change it to suit them and there vision of the game.

 

For me gameplay wins over everything else, I dont care about realistic graphics if I cant interact with the world I might as well be watching a movie.

 

Now if we have great graphics and the world building of 7 days with huge hoards of zombies and huge texture pallet and hundreds of building blocks, my dream game.

I think in an apocalypse game like this shortage of food sort of fits. I mean no more factories churning out food and none or rare amounts of people farming. Food is eventually bound to becomes scarce.

[Adam the Waster]

6 minutes ago, Gamida said:

I think in an apocalypse game like this shortage of food sort of fits. I mean no more factories churning out food and none or rare amounts of people farming. Food is eventually bound to becomes scarce.

 yeah food is kinda abundant, same with water.

 

water though is kinda understandable because rivers, but food? hunting for meat and farming? yeah understandable but Canned goods are very abundant!  

 

but i do like the idea of getting extra stamina for eating better news! i hope that maybe it could also up your max HP.  

[Anthonydevidal]

Hi @madmole, I wanted to ask you about Richard Huenink, and Christian Lang.
Tell me a little about them, who are they?  are you working at 7dtd? They left? why? what important decisions they make in the game. Thank you

[Quagmire1428]

17 hours ago, madmole said:

To make room for radiation or food spoilage in the future perhaps.

The fact is nobody on the team liked it. It was too demoralizing to lose all your food over something random, you didn't really do anything wrong and you got punished and food is very scarce on MP servers so its not the same as SP. Rotten food will damage your health.

Maybe I've got a broken arm, broken leg, infection, deep lacerations and abrasions and a concussion, so poisoning my food was the last straw to make me rage quit or suicide. Put simply, people will be getting wrecked in so many new ways that are more engaging than being crippled by eating fresh cooked food which intuitively should be a safe thing to do not a hazardous thing.
 

yeah, i totally agree with this. my time on a certain game (which shall remain nameless) was so annoying because i could find all the things i needed (guns, ammo, clothing etc) yet food and water was soooooo scarce that i died constantly to a point where i just unistalled. yes i could have changed the food + water spawn rates in my xml file but i didn't feel that i should have to go that far. i think the changes that i have seen in the time i've been playing 7DTD (started on the unfortunate xbox version, and came to PC) have been good and am still excited for what the future brings. only thing i would add: a device to revese polarity of electrics. so off is on etc.  keep up the great work TFPs.!!!

[Xtrakicking]

59 minutes ago, Gamida said:

I think in an apocalypse game like this shortage of food sort of fits. I mean no more factories churning out food and none or rare amounts of people farming. Food is eventually bound to becomes scarce.

I agree. It's a zombie apocalypse, and that's the gist of it. I personally think it's all a matter of balance: Food and water shouldn't be so hard to manage that it becomes frustrating but at the same time they shouldn't be so easy it's pretty much pointless to even have hunger and thirst mechanics.

 

The thing is, even if food spoilage was in the game, managing hunger and thirst wouldn't be frustrating. For starters, canned food wouldn't be affected by spoilage, so you can still survive with canned food alone. Even if that isn't enough, players who can't manage food can still get it from traders/vending machines. It would also add reasons to get electricity and craft fridges.

 

You could even make it so super recipes last a lot longer than the other fresh foods, so spending points in the cooking skill actually becomes a plausible option.

[canadianbluebeer]

41 minutes ago, Xtrakicking said:

 

You could even make it so super recipes last a lot longer than the other fresh foods, so spending points in the cooking skill actually becomes a plausible option.

 

That is a good point. Equiv to freeze dried foods, jerky etc. stuff that lasts practically forever.

All kinds of possibilities for future builds. (or dlc whathaveyou)

 

 

[madmole]

On 5/12/2020 at 5:13 PM, Xtrakicking said:

Yeah, the thing is that the way it was worded made it seem like the decision was to just get rid of the problem by cutting the feature from the game entirely. If, as you said in your previous response, they have plans to upgrade the whole system in the future much like they did with infection, then it's very different.

I wouldn't get your hopes up.  At the end of the day we're spinning circles trying to make food balanced and that is all it was meant to do. Its completely shippable now, instead of a system most people didn't care for and the game is better  for it. Its one of those things no matter what we do its going to be overcame fairly early as farming, looting and trading make it possible to eat. And its just a low level problem and it doesn't need to resurface mid or late game, when there are more exciting problems at hand like how to deal with new special infected.

 

[Xtrakicking]

17 minutes ago, madmole said:

I wouldn't get your hopes up.  At the end of the day we're spinning circles trying to make food balanced and that is all it was meant to do. Its completely shippable now, instead of a system most people didn't care for and the game is better  for it. Its one of those things no matter what we do its going to be overcame fairly early as farming, looting and trading make it possible to eat. And its just a low level problem and it doesn't need to resurface mid or late game, when there are more exciting problems at hand like how to deal with new special infected.

 

Except it isn't balanced. How could it be balanced if the player can just stack up raw meat and live off of that without any consequence at all? You don't even need a farm or a fireplace and you can just survive like that. I get that there are some elements regarding zombies, combat, etc, that are priorities, but I don't see the point of adding depth to those and completely dumbing down such basic components of a survival game such as hunger and thirst, especially when you already have the framework required to also add depth to hunger and thirst like the ISS.

 

 

[madmole]

On 5/13/2020 at 12:09 AM, JaxTeller718 said:

I understand your frustration. I too do not favor this change. I have an option though and thats to use the dirty word as i see fit to get it back.

 

I used to fight with the team all the time in an effort to keep survival in 7 days, but the sooner we all accept that 7 days is the foundation for a great survival game and not an actual survival game the better off we will be and the less upset we will get.

 

And when i say that I do assume that the developers agree on that one. There are over a dozen games out there that do survival right, and actually focus on it being a game mechanic that my assumptions is that the decision for 7 days to be more looter shooter than a survival game had been made a few alphas back. 

 

Looking a it from that perspective you develop a new respect for it, as its a great looter shooter that mixes in a trace of survival elements without getting in the way of running and gunning. Its quite a fun arcade experience.

7 Days IS a survival game, but you want it to be a survival simulation. Games are fun, simulations are generally not. This was just another thing we tried that to my surprise nobody but me liked. But I like a harder slower game where others just want to loot shoot and deal with the horde. But like I said earlier, with all these new criticals you can get in combat getting a problem while your just trying to survive eating arguably good food isn't the best design but I was working with what we had.

On 5/13/2020 at 12:11 AM, JaxTeller718 said:

Going along with that idea Id remove canned food too. Really no need for them at all anymore. One less useless item.

No, all the best recipes require canned foods so that farmers cannot mass produce the best foods with no looting effort.

[Xtrakicking]

12 minutes ago, madmole said:

Its one of those things no matter what we do its going to be overcame fairly early as farming, looting and trading make it possible to eat.

 

Additionaly, if it's true that no matter what you do, players will overcome the problem eventually, it would at least help to not make it even easier to overcome early game.

[Guppycur]

Seems the new recipes offer benefits, but there isn't much in the way of negatives?  So unless you're the type of person who just HAS to max out, the rest of us can just play normally with our over 175 meats on day one, and be just fine?  (Stand on truck, shoot bears and wolves with impunity, profit... One shot does, club boars... Hell, most of the meat comes TO you!)

 

(And that count is no exaggeration).

[Blake_]

9 minutes ago, Guppycur said:

Seems the new recipes offer benefits, but there isn't much in the way of negatives?  So unless you're the type of person who just HAS to max out, the rest of us can just play normally with our over 175 meats on day one, and be just fine?  (Stand on truck, shoot bears and wolves with impunity, profit... One shot does, club boars... Hell, most of the meat comes TO you!)

 

(And that count is no exaggeration).

175 pieces of meat are just 35 charred meat rations which would last you maybe 2-3 days of active gameplay. I don't see your point. Horde night is at day 7, so you better kill  14-20 animals for some 350 meat at the very least for sustained and rewarding survival. Breaking news, 15 deers are hard to find in 7 days. If just 1 of them is a rabbit, a snake, a chicken or a coyote, you probably won't make it. So if you

don't expend a single point in Master Cheff or Iron Gut you will be in trouble.

 

Do you need a simplified version of the "meat" thingy? Maybe we shall call it chunks of meat and asume that we eat a lot? Or maybe we shall call them " meat snacks" and wrap them up in plastic inside a bunker so you can find the game more realistic?

[Xtrakicking]

14 minutes ago, Blake_ said:

175 pieces of meat are just 35 charred meat rations which would last you maybe 2-3 days of active gameplay. I don't see your point.

Day 1, my friend, and if it lasts 2-3 days, just imagine later on how little food matters.

 

The problem, as Guppy said, is that there aren't any consequences nor negatives at all. Rotten food takes away a bit of health. Big deal, pop a painkiller and live off of rotten food as well. There's no sense of satisfaction in filling the hunger bar if the threat of actually starving to death is non existent.

 

14 minutes ago, Blake_ said:

So if you don't expend a single point in Master Cheff or Iron Gut you will be in trouble.

I can't speak for others, but I can speak for myself, and so far I have never spent a point in none of those skills. There's no need to, food is abundant. I'd rather save the points for when I reach the very expensive last levels of the int build.

 

If Iron Gut isn't really necessary now, with the vomiting mechanic, just imagine if there's no consequence of eating bad quality food anymore.

[Blake_]

15 minutes ago, Xtrakicking said:

Day 1, my friend, and if it lasts 2-3 days, just imagine later on how little food matters.

 

The problem, as Guppy said, is that there aren't any consequences nor negatives at all. Rotten food takes away a bit of health. Big deal, pop a painkiller and live off of rotten food as well. There's no sense of satisfaction in filling the hunger bar if the threat of actually starving to death is non existent.

 

I can't speak for others, but I can speak for myself, and so far I have never spent a point in none of those skills. There's no need to, food is abundant. I'd rather save the points for when I reach the very expensive last levels of the int build.

 

If Iron Gut isn't really necessary now, with the vomiting mechanic, just imagine if there's no consequence of eating bad quality food anymore.

When I play single player I don't have any problem with food either. When you start to add players into the equation it gets exponentially hard if you don't perk straight into those perks. I noticed with just 1 partner. I played with 4 friends a couple of months ago and it was hell the first few days . Lots of close calls, constant starving. We just play mixed style : some questing, some building, some everything.

 

Edit: Just remember that those 175 meat won' t last 7 days and you will not find as much the next 7 days until animals respawn in your area. If you don't play extreme nomadic style you will perish. Food is not that easy to find. It sure is a bit more than enough for single player though.

[Roland]

When you eat meals that are at charred meat and even canned food level, you feel like you have to constantly do it to keep your fullness up. 
 

Eating the better foods really let you play for awhile without having to eat eat eat. 
 

Madmole said don’t get your hopes up but he ALSO said radiation and radiation sickness are planned and there could be a tie in with that for food.
 

So just poke your hopes a little bit. 

[madmole]

3 hours ago, Anthonydevidal said:

Hi @madmole, I wanted to ask you about Richard Huenink, and Christian Lang.
Tell me a little about them, who are they?  are you working at 7dtd? They left? why? what important decisions they make in the game. Thank you

Richard is my Brother and we co own TFP. Christian retired last year.

[SnowDog1942]

On ‎5‎/‎12‎/‎2020 at 6:43 PM, SnowDog1942 said:

Guys I'm going for the record number of turd reactions in one post.  Turd me.

 

 

Edit: unlike real life, I can't poop myself.

17 Turds!! -- Including one from the Boss!.

 

What do I win!!!???   a mug?? a T-shirt?

1 hour ago, madmole said:

I wouldn't get your hopes up.  At the end of the day we're spinning circles trying to make food balanced and that is all it was meant to do. Its completely shippable now, instead of a system most people didn't care for and the game is better  for it. Its one of those things no matter what we do its going to be overcame fairly early as farming, looting and trading make it possible to eat. And its just a low level problem and it doesn't need to resurface mid or late game, when there are more exciting problems at hand like how to deal with new special infected.

 

As much as I love difficulty, that mechanic was horrible, thanks for the change.

[EffiJeffy]

17 minutes ago, Roland said:

When you eat meals that are at charred meat and even canned food level, you feel like you have to constantly do it to keep your fullness up. 
 

Eating the better foods really let you play for awhile without having to eat eat eat. 
 

Madmole said don’t get your hopes up but he ALSO said radiation and radiation sickness are planned and there could be a tie in with that for food.
 

So just poke your hopes a little bit. 

Radiation in A19 or A20?

[madmole]

1 hour ago, Xtrakicking said:

Except it isn't balanced. How could it be balanced if the player can just stack up raw meat and live off of that without any consequence at all? You don't even need a farm or a fireplace and you can just survive like that. I get that there are some elements regarding zombies, combat, etc, that are priorities, but I don't see the point of adding depth to those and completely dumbing down such basic components of a survival game such as hunger and thirst, especially when you already have the framework required to also add depth to hunger and thirst like the ISS.

 

 

Why would you need to farm to survive if you are a looter shooter shopper? Farms are for home bodies or dedicated team support guy. We'll probably add a penalty to raw meat yet.

[Roland]

@EffiJeffy A20 or beyond. The coding for three levels of radiation is already in the game but hasn’t been activated yet. But it won’t be in A19. 

[Guppycur]

47 minutes ago, Blake_ said:

175 pieces of meat are just 35 charred meat rations which would last you maybe 2-3 days of active gameplay. I don't see your point. Horde night is at day 7, so you better kill  14-20 animals for some 350 meat at the very least for sustained and rewarding survival. Breaking news, 15 deers are hard to find in 7 days. If just 1 of them is a rabbit, a snake, a chicken or a coyote, you probably won't make it. So if you

don't expend a single point in Master Cheff or Iron Gut you will be in trouble.

 

Do you need a simplified version of the "meat" thingy? Maybe we shall call it chunks of meat and asume that we eat a lot? Or maybe we shall call them " meat snacks" and wrap them up in plastic inside a bunker so you can find the game more realistic?

...that's just the meats.  The plethora of eggs and canned food means a hell of a lot more than just "2-3" days, and if you REALLY think about it, you said it yourself... I collected at *minimum*, "2-3 days" of food in the daytime hours of day 1.  You still don't see the point?

 

Food is not, and never has been, problematic in this game.  Ever.