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Alpha 19 Dev Diary


madmole

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27 minutes ago, Ralathar44 said:

but that doesn't mean it should be changed just because you personally don't like it.

I see this sentence come up in many arguments, and it's such an absurd statement every single time. I'm not saying they should change the game to fit my needs and demands above everyone else's, I'm giving feedback on something I think it's a problem. If they decide to change it, great. If they don't want to change anything, cool, but then these things will remain as problems for the people that dwell on immersion. You're not one of those people, and that's great, because it's not a problem to you then, but that doesn't mean it's not a problem to many others that try to offer ideas to maybe see it fixed, especially now that it's still a possibility, since the game is still in alpha.

 

You can't possibly know how such a change would affect development because bandits aren't even in the game yet, and there's no way to know how players with different builds will play against them beyond assumptions. For all we know, knives might just be the best meele against them, especially with the bleeding effect, since you can stay away from the line of fire while that takes care of them.

 

This is just another assumption, anyways. The ones to determine if it's worth changing are the devs. Heck, they might even change how combat works again when bandits show up! There's no way for us to know what such a change implies, and for what it's worth right now, I don't see it far fetched.

Edited by Xtrakicking (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, faatal said:

I've played agility a lot recently. The bleeding mechanic is fun and makes knives different from other weapons. Fun game play beats logic, which is why you can carry tons, jump a meter, build instantly, resurrect yourself, drive a vehicle underwater, fly a gyrocopter without lessons, span a day in 1 hour...

I agree with most of it... but have you seen streamers the first time they try to fly a gyrocopter? Or second, third? 🤣

Besides, driving vehicles underwater is no fun. They get bogged down. Now, flying a gyrocopter underwater, that's freaking awesome!

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49 minutes ago, Adam the Waster said:

just go outside and Eat the frog. no need to cook it!

You could probably learn by doing that.

32 minutes ago, pregnable said:

I do often think the zombie damage is too high vs blocks, and I kinda miss frantically repairing boarded windows while trying to survive in a crappy wood base during a horde.  It is not really a big deal though, and I am not sure how you would fix it. 

 

Turn down the setting AI block damage.

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20 minutes ago, Xtrakicking said:

You can't possibly know how such a change would affect development because bandits aren't even in the game yet, and there's no way to know how players with different builds will play against them beyond assumptions. For all we know, knives might just be the best meele against them, especially with the bleeding effect, since you can stay away from the line of fire while that takes care of them.

Look I don't need the exact implementation of bandits to know that they are humans using human weapons.  Unless something really weird happens they'll move faster than zombies by default and will have ranged weapons.  It'd be super weird for us to be a walking Rambo arsenal and no bandits to have bows/guns.  This means that melee WILL be far less effective vs them than vs zombies unless the game cheats heavily in our favor by not allowing them to have ranged weapons, balancing their ranged damage pitifully low, making their melee hits not apply effects to us (stun/bleed/knockdown), etc.

Even if they were all glass cannons with melee then using melee against them would be ill advised unless their damage vs you is pitiful, which it wouldn't be on warrior+ difficulty levels.  To get an approximation of the difference turn zombies on to "always sprint" for both day and night on whatever difficulty you play on (at least Nomad though).  The primary method of survival in 7DTD isn't killing things, it's avoiding damage and avoiding putting yourself in risky situations.  When you cannot control your engagements, melee becomes a risky situation.  This is the case until you get higher levels of regen + armor, which trivializes basically all incoming damage on Nomad and lower and eliminates basically all risk from melee.  End game regen + armor a bit OP at lower difficulty levels where zombie damage is low, especially since you can heal large chunks of health while being beaten to death.  It's more well balanced for higher difficulties though.

Edited by Ralathar44 (see edit history)
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24 minutes ago, madmole said:

Turn down the setting AI block damage.

 

Nah, like I said it is not really an issue. 

 

I was just suggesting zombie events and making conversation. 

 

The game is pretty good the way it is and I am just waiting to play the crap out of the next update, and I had not posted recently. 

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1 minute ago, Ralathar44 said:

SNIP

All that is still assumptions till bandits are implemented. Maybe by maxing out your build, melee stops being ill advised for bandits, and the bleeding effect is kickass. There's just no way to know. They might even come up with something better against zombies and leave bleeding to humans, or maybe not. Only the devs know, and when the game goes gold, we'll see what they came up with and what they thought was worth changing. Until then, I won't keep from giving feedback just because "it might be too much of a hussle".

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1 minute ago, Xtrakicking said:

They might even come up with something better against zombies and leave bleeding to humans, or maybe not.

That's literally what I said would need to happen in the first response I made when you were making your original argument of  "None of that changes if the knife has the bleeding bonus added to bandits. It would actually make the Agility build more interesting, if you're looking for a set of weapons that's better against human NPCs rather than zombies (and also make the game more immersive).  "Should I go with the Strength build to fight zombies better? Or should I go with agility and cause bleeding damage to those pesky bandits?"

 

 

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this weapon will come to A19, (i think so anyways) i just wanted to post it to help put it on the main page of Alpha 19 (the area with all the pics)

 

its the Tactical Assault Rifle, the Tier 2 AR, you can kinda play with it if you have cheat mode and go into Dev section, you should find it next to the AK but it has a Question mark as the icon. you can uses it but it has no sound and some things are bugged out but its usable!

 

https://twitter.com/joelhuenink/status/1142188975982960640/photo/1    link here

 

Image

Edited by Adam the Waster (see edit history)
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17 minutes ago, Ralathar44 said:

That's literally what I said would need to happen in the first response I made when you were making your original argument of  "None of that changes if the knife has the bleeding bonus added to bandits. It would actually make the Agility build more interesting, if you're looking for a set of weapons that's better against human NPCs rather than zombies (and also make the game more immersive).  "Should I go with the Strength build to fight zombies better? Or should I go with agility and cause bleeding damage to those pesky bandits?"

 

 

Yes, so? My point is that It's all just assumptions till we see what the devs come up with. You can't just say such a change is too much because it may be easier to do than you think, especially considering that bandit gameplay isn't even a thing yet.

 

Again, best to wait and see. At this point, it's a dead horse we're beating on. Well, some would say it's an "infected" horse. I don't know anymore.

Edited by Xtrakicking (see edit history)
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13 minutes ago, Xtrakicking said:

Yes, so? My point is that It's all just assumptions till we see what the devs come up with. You can't just say such a change is too much because it may be easier to do than you think, especially considering that bandit gameplay isn't even a thing yet.

 

Again, best to wait and see. At this point, it's a dead horse we're beating on. Well, some would say it's an "infected" horse. I don't know anymore.

I mean you made your own assumptions, I made mine, that seems fair IMO.  If you don't want that kind of conversation then don't start it :D.  If you want to have a different opinion, that's fine, but play by your own rules.

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1 minute ago, Ralathar44 said:

I mean you made your own assumptions, I made mine, that seems fair IMO.  If you don't want that kind of conversation then don't start it :D.  If you want to have a different opinion, that's fine, but play by your own rules.

...

 

You're the one who said the change was too much of a hussle and then wrote down a bunch of assumptions on bandit combat to use as reasons why... I don't think you're understanding the conversation.

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6 minutes ago, Xtrakicking said:

...

 

You're the one who said the change was too much of a hussle and then wrote down a bunch of assumptions on bandit combat to use as reasons why... I don't think you're understanding the conversation.

This was all in response to your original reply to Fataal of "None of that changes if the knife has the bleeding bonus added to bandits. It would actually make the Agility build more interesting, if you're looking for a set of weapons that's better against human NPCs rather than zombies (and also make the game more immersive).  "Should I go with the Strength build to fight zombies better? Or should I go with agility and cause bleeding damage to those pesky bandits?"

Which is a statement bearing several assumptions.  You assume nothing would change, you assume it would make the build more interesting, you assume it would make it better against bandits than against zombies, etc.  You know none of those things because they are all theoretical changes.  Things that sound good n your head but may not necessarily play out that way in practice. 

Play by your own rules.

Edited by Ralathar44 (see edit history)
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25 minutes ago, Ralathar44 said:

This was all in response to your original reply to Fataal of "None of that changes if the knife has the bleeding bonus added to bandits. It would actually make the Agility build more interesting, if you're looking for a set of weapons that's better against human NPCs rather than zombies (and also make the game more immersive).  "Should I go with the Strength build to fight zombies better? Or should I go with agility and cause bleeding damage to those pesky bandits?"

Which is a statement bearing several assumptions.  You assume nothing would change, you assume it would make the build more interesting, you assume it would make it better against bandits than against zombies, etc.  You know none of those things because they are all theoretical changes.  Things that sound good n your head but may not necessarily play out that way in practice. 

My statement was a suggestion. Yes, one that was based on an assumption, but the devs are the only ones that could possibly know how easy it is to implement or not. The difference here, that you're failing to see, is that in your statement you're completely disregarding the change as one that's too complicated to make, using assumptions on things we don't know yet, saying that I could argue my position better when in reality none of us but the devs know how hard it is to implement.

 

I play by my own rules, but it really just seems like you're just blurting out "that won't work!" statements for no real reason.

Edited by Xtrakicking (see edit history)
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52 minutes ago, Xtrakicking said:

My statement was a suggestion. Yes, one that was based on an assumption, but the devs are the only ones that could possibly know how easy it is to implement or not. The difference here, that you're failing to see, is that in your statement you're completely disregarding the change as one that's too complicated to make, using assumptions on things we don't know yet, saying that I could argue my position better when in reality none of us but the devs know how hard it is to implement.

 

I not only never said that but that's directly against my core beliefs in game development.  In general there is no such thing as too complicated to make in game development.  Only a question of resources, ROI, and budget.  The idea of "you can't do that in a game" or "you can't make that fun" are things things I push back against because gaming has proven all of those concepts wrong far too many times.

Edited by Ralathar44 (see edit history)
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5 minutes ago, Erik Louden said:

"Up to half of the world's population is infected by toxoplasmosis, but have no symptoms."

And then it mutates to the Zvirus

and when they get the infection they do what they did in their past life, only from habit and thats to get into a game forum... they dont know what to logically do but their infected brain tells them it was what they used to do.

 

there you go.. start of the next game series :)

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