Alpha 19 Dev Diary

[Solitary 0]

 

Most people who make that comment just want stupid zombies that just make a straight line towards you wherever you are as that fits most zombie movie lore.

 

The problem with this mentality is that it makes zombies one dimensional and less challenging which is not good for a video games.

 

Maybe if the game could handle 100s of zombies attacking the player something like that could be made more interesting but it cant.

 

You are correct, but lets not pretend the 7d zombies are no longer "straight line", they still just move towards you like homing missiles, but just thanks to ability to build vertically there is a challenge in making the routing and pathfinding work three dimensionally... The fact this game is voxel/sandbox is a curse and blessing. Curse for AI programmer, blessing for us ... and it is getting there. Currently the bigger issue are the animations of them getting up to you. For example the funny jump they do... just let's animate them climbing blocks, the jump is awkward, right? Mocap of actor just making his way up a 1x1m block. Let's have animations of zombies interacting with world blocks, some different shapes too... that will make them fit in. Some turning animations, more attacks, let them grab players... the combat is so stiff thanks to the poor animations. I must admit I never was a fan of the mocap anims introduced in A12, to this day there are certain animations where I just dont see a zombie, but a mocap actor doing a stunt, it feels so off and over-acted, there is no proper art direction to it. But I hopefully consider all of that early iteration and hope that all of that too will get proper love like the rest of the game.

 

I consider the current zombies (and combat, thanks to the zombies) to be the biggest technological debt of this game. Rest of the game is getting to a acceptable forms and it is all shaping up nicely, but the zombies are not yet in that comparable state (especially animations, less so models and AI - that all has been worked on a some amount and the models presented are that work), but I would equate current zombies to the quality of early minibike and we all know and remember what a "fun" ride that was thank god for the current state of vehicles, even though not perfect it is already acceptable quality gameplay.

[Laz Man 1,335]

 

You are correct, but lets not pretend the 7d zombies are no longer "straight line", they still just move towards you like homing missiles, but just thanks to ability to build vertically there is a challenge in making the routing and pathfinding work three dimensionally... The fact this game is voxel/sandbox is a curse and blessing. Curse for AI programmer, blessing for us ... and it is getting there. Currently the bigger issue are the animations of them getting up to you. For example the funny jump they do... just let's animate them climbing blocks, the jump is awkward, right? Mocap of actor just making his way up a 1x1m block. Let's have animations of zombies interacting with world blocks, some different shapes too... that will make them fit in. Some turning animations, more attacks, let them grab players... the combat is so stiff thanks to the poor animations. I must admit I never was a fan of the mocap anims introduced in A12, to this day there are certain animations where I just dont see a zombie, but a mocap actor doing a stunt, it feels so off and over-acted, there is no proper art direction to it. But I hopefully consider all of that early iteration and hope that all of that too will get proper love like the rest of the game.

 

I consider the current zombies (and combat, thanks to the zombies) to be the biggest technological debt of this game. Rest of the game is getting to a acceptable forms and it is all shaping up nicely, but the zombies are not yet in that comparable state (especially animations, less so models and AI - that all has been worked on a some amount and the models presented are that work), but I would equate current zombies to the quality of early minibike and we all know and remember what a "fun" ride that was thank god for the current state of vehicles, even though not perfect it is already acceptable quality gameplay.

 

More climbing/clawing animations would be great. Especially when they are all bundled up together. Its alittle immersion breaking when you see them standing on top of each other hehe.

 

@madmole, @faatal, would it be possible for the zeds to go into the kneeling animation (the one they use when they are trying to destroy the block below them) so other zombies can climb over them? It may simulate that scary feeling like in the world war Z movie. ?

 

Edited April 9, 2020 by Laz Man (see edit history)

[MechanicalLens 953]

 

More climbing/clawing animations would be great. Especially when they are all bundled up together. Its alittle immersion breaking when you see them standing on top of each other hehe.

 

@madmole, @faatal, would it be possible for the zeds to go into the kneeling animation (the one they use when they are trying to destroy the block below them) so other zombies can climb over them? It may simulate that scary feeling like in the world war Z movie. ?

 

 

Funny; when they brought new toilet paper into my local Walmart last month, the scene with the piling customers was eerily similar to this... ?

[Solitary 0]

 

More climbing/clawing animations would be great. Especially when they are all bundled up together. Its alittle immersion breaking when you see them standing on top of each other hehe.

 

@madmole, @faatal, would it be possible for the zeds to go into the kneeling animation (the one they use when they are trying to destroy the block below them) so other zombies can climb over them? It may simulate that scary feeling like in the world war Z movie. ?

 

Even simple pull up climb to a 2m height would help a lot. Not the old spider zombie climb, something more realistic and limited... I can already imagine zombies pouring into the house to get you, some of them are coming through windows, fatter ones through doors coming from everywhere, there is no escape.

[Adam the Waster 715]

 

More climbing/clawing animations would be great. Especially when they are all bundled up together. Its alittle immersion breaking when you see them standing on top of each other hehe.

 

@madmole, @faatal, would it be possible for the zeds to go into the kneeling animation (the one they use when they are trying to destroy the block below them) so other zombies can climb over them? It may simulate that scary feeling like in the world war Z movie. ?

 

 

if i saw that i would cry

[MechanicalLens 953]

 

if i saw that i would cry

 

2400 max alive

[Adam the Waster 715]

 

2400 max alive

 

well tbh i have it up to 70 and nightmare speed at bloodmoon so that gif is what i deal with lol

 

But if i see zeds climbing up a building like apartment like that. i would just Cry

Edited April 9, 2020 by Adam the Waster (see edit history)

[The Gronk 428]

That does seem quite a bit of coordination for a bunch of dead people. The Castells of Catalonia are the closest we get irl and broken bones are quite common.

 

 

 

Update: If you watch the "Jerusalem Wall" scene in really slow motion it seems that the zombies in the centre of the pillar are either capable of levitation or being able to climb sheer concrete with the weight of 3 or 4 other zombies on top of them. :-)

Edited April 9, 2020 by The Gronk (see edit history)

[Survager 151]

 

Now that each zombie has its own hair texture there can be a variety of hair colors.

 

MM, please specify, different hair colors will occur in the same type of zombie?

Or will different zombies just have different hair colors?

That is, different zombies of the same type will have the same hair color?

[MechanicalLens 953]

https://twitter.com/7DaystoDie/statu...78212644122624

 

 

 

 

 

 

Suggestion for a... small update/change?

 

 

[Survager 151]

 

Even my skin looks worse after a shower =)

[madmole 3,577]

 

MM, please specify, different hair colors will occur in the same type of zombie?

Or will different zombies just have different hair colors?

That is, different zombies of the same type will have the same hair color?

 

Every arlene will have the same color of hair, but steve could have brown hair or joe could have blonde hair, etc.

[Darkfoxx117 29]

i just want to clarify in my own head that the background used in the twitter pictures, is it a real representation of lighting in the game or is it just as i thought and a fancy background image. I think a lot of people are getting excited about the background graphics as they look so realistic.

 

https://twitter.com/7DaystoDie/statu...122624/photo/1

[mr.devolver 272]

i just want to clarify in my own head that the background used in the twitter pictures, is it a real representation of lighting in the game or is it just as i thought and a fancy background image. I think a lot of people are getting excited about the background graphics as they look so realistic.

 

https://twitter.com/7DaystoDie/statu...122624/photo/1

 

It's to create that nice visual illusion of reflection. It's better with backgrounds that have a lot of light spots.

[Laz Man 1,335]

 

2400 max alive

 

I know bannerlord is not a voxel game, but damn the game is so immersive doing battle among hundreds of people.....

 

....maybe someone will make a zombie overhaul with that game...?

[Guppys Fur 177]

 

More climbing/clawing animations would be great. Especially when they are all bundled up together. Its alittle immersion breaking when you see them standing on top of each other hehe.

 

@madmole, @faatal, would it be possible for the zeds to go into the kneeling animation (the one they use when they are trying to destroy the block below them) so other zombies can climb over them? It may simulate that scary feeling like in the world war Z movie. ?

 

 

+1 very good idea

[Dosu Kinuta 15]

 

If spinning in circles is your thing feel free to load up the old crusty alphas. I don't know how anyone can say that with a straight face. We've randomized them and IMO its less predictable then it ever was. Did you try one build for a day and make that assumption or are you patched up to the latest version?

 

Yes Joel, we did upgrade and played for more than 1 week on the last version (at least in my case) before commenting here..however he is right. Not saying the AI or the game is bad or anything, not saying that you don't make progress with the game or that we don't appreciate it...it's just that...the AI doesn't feel zombie like, WAY TOO SMART and some of us still feel that way. If I were to log the hours played on 7 days to die...I'd say that 85% of the time is spent playing older versions.

 

You just can't change this Joel no matter how shocked you may be to hear it, some of us prefer the old AI because it was stupid and you can't change that. We love the game but everyone has it's preferences. There are many A18 features that I don't like but this is not the point of my comment.

 

I will tell you honestly my opinion about a thing, feel free to disagree with me or hate me, since it's your game. For example, when you want to implement such a feature as "rage", you should make a poll to see how many players actually want it, not just implement it right away like you did with the "no loot zombies" and get all the hate for it. This was just an example Joel, I couldn't care less that I can't loot zombies, but you always seem so "shocked" to hear people that say they prefer older versions or features of older versions, maybe you should stop being so shocked and listen to the players, give them a chance to vote to see if the majority would want such a feature. This is just a suggestion, not bashing anyone here. Still enjoying the game.

Edited April 9, 2020 by Dosu Kinuta (see edit history)

[agrastiOs 6]

@madmole, @faatal, would it be possible for the zeds to go into the kneeling animation (the one they use when they are trying to destroy the block below them) so other zombies can climb over them? It may simulate that scary feeling like in the world war Z movie. ?

Zombies already can bunch up and climb over walls though.

 

 

[stallionsden 439]

 

More climbing/clawing animations would be great. Especially when they are all bundled up together. Its alittle immersion breaking when you see them standing on top of each other hehe.

 

@madmole, @faatal, would it be possible for the zeds to go into the kneeling animation (the one they use when they are trying to destroy the block below them) so other zombies can climb over them? It may simulate that scary feeling like in the world war Z movie. ?

 

 

Actually the zs in world war z just ran at the gate and then killed themselves and the others just kept repeating til they were able to climb on top of the others and got over the wall didnt they

[SittingDuck 76]

 

Yes Joel, we did upgrade and played for more than 1 week on the last version (at least in my case) before commenting here..however he is right. Not saying the AI or the game is bad or anything, not saying that you don't make progress with the game or that we don't appreciate it...it's just that...the AI doesn't feel zombie like, WAY TOO SMART and some of us still feel that way. If I were to log the hours played on 7 days to die...I'd say that 85% of the time is spent playing older versions.

 

You just can't change this Joel no matter how shocked you may be to hear it, some of us prefer the old AI because it was stupid and you can't change that. We love the game but everyone has it's preferences. There are many A18 features that I don't like but this is not the point of my comment.

 

I will tell you honestly my opinion about a thing, feel free to disagree with me or hate me, since it's your game. For example, when you want to implement such a feature as "rage", you should make a poll to see how many players actually want it, not just implement it right away like you did with the "no loot zombies" and get all the hate for it. This was just an example Joel, I couldn't care less that I can't loot zombies, but you always seem so "shocked" to hear people that say they prefer older versions or features of older versions, maybe you should stop being so shocked and listen to the players, give them a chance to vote to see if the majority would want such a feature. This is just a suggestion, not bashing anyone here. Still enjoying the game.

 

Some of us like the Zombie Smarts. Hordnight defence is a little bit towerdefence and you can build your traps now like never before... Build a killing tunnel, Zombies use it now. awesome.

 

[doughphunghus 126]

Some of us like the Zombie Smarts.

 

I'm all for "more zombie behavior/look/feel variance" and It would be neat if there were some "super smart" ones (like avoid traps or something cool like climbing up walls, dig fast under a wall, pop up on other side....dare I say Drive up on a motorcycle and offer you a sham sandwich...no that's too far) and some "super dumb" ones (like old AI, run in circles, fall in a hole and cannot jump out, literally run straight into a non kill tunneled trap and fall down, go after a lit light bulb and ignore you, go after the forge and die in a fire...easy dumb stuff). Not have them everywhere, like a 2-5% chance of spawning a random one with special behaviors. A Zombieland 2 feel, where you have "the Ninja"? and "the Homer" and others. I *do* love how janky the current ones behave with the head and body swaying so its harder to shoot them. The old PS4 version I played was even more fun than PC in this regard as it's harder to aim using a controller vs a mouse.

 

And speaking of "world war z" and hordes climbing walls. that would be an awesome mechanic. Every now and then a wandering horde just spawning that was mostly "wall climbers who climb on top of each other can can go x stories high". Throw in some demolishes so it's hard to single them out. They DO kinda do it already quite a bit on horde night but its only jumping on top of each other and not "piling on and climbing each other". I imagine this would be difficult to animate well.

[Guppys Fur 177]

 

Actually the zs in world war z just ran at the gate and then killed themselves and the others just kept repeating til they were able to climb on top of the others and got over the wall didnt they

 

True, but since the game cant do that performance wise ( all that ragdoll ) it would be cool to have them climb more often/targeted, what now seems like its buggy behaviour.

[Laz Man 1,335]

 

Some of us like the Zombie Smarts. Hordnight defence is a little bit towerdefence and you can build your traps now like never before... Build a killing tunnel, Zombies use it now. awesome.

 

I agree 100%. Less common zombie movie like but more fun/challenging from a TD standpoint which is okay for now...

 

It will be interesting to see how things balance out when bandits are added. Perhaps more zombie AI tweaks will come along at that point.

Edited April 9, 2020 by Laz Man (see edit history)

[Adam the Waster 715]

 

True, but since the game cant do that performance wise ( all that ragdoll ) it would be cool to have them climb more often/targeted, what now seems like its buggy behaviour.

 

maybe one day there could be a super strong zombie that can throw zombies at your base lol

 

but i have seen zombies climb over walls by standing on top of each other. but it is kinda awkward

[Gareee 66]

 

Every arlene will have the same color of hair, but steve could have brown hair or joe could have blonde hair, etc.

 

That might b a missed diversity opportunity. I know the base model probably has a painted scalp color, but maybe there can be less drastic but still different color variations? Or better still, a base hair texture color, but shader variations or just the new hair color texture?

 

That might be worth exploring.