Jump to content
madmole

Alpha 19 Dev Diary

Recommended Posts

Wow! But I said Halo...not Dr Strange... ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Eh, same concept. Just a twist in another direction and a lot more gently.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The interim forums winky face makes me uncomfortable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Maybe I'm just an unobservant oaf, but I had lots of fun on all the seeds I played. 8k is huge, so the size card doesn't mean anything to me. Aside from that, how can you pick it apart? Generation time? PFFFT, that is one little 15 minute time then you are set for 100 hours. Rust takes longer than ours. Not really high on our list.

 

The only thing that caught my eye was two identical pois close to each other, and a few dead end roads that could be better. We already improved biome generation, so what else is there?

 

 

 

 

The fact that POI's like gunshops, hardware stores, pharmacy's, library's and spamway are randomly missing from RWG maps. Probably others too, but I only check the stores in the prefabs.xml. I have made many bug reports on this issue. Even the PREGEN maps are not completely populated with stores.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Can you convince my wife?

 

She told me size doesn't matter.. I left crying, man :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The interim forums winky face makes me uncomfortable.

 

and look who it came from

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That ring world looks pretty cool. 25km of road would be epic. Now if only it could ascend vertically so it would be reminiscent of Halo... ;)

 

larry nivern!

 

edit = help! - the winky face is following me!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

She told me size doesn't matter.. I left crying, man :(

 

bro. its not the size. its the fit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is only so much you can do though. Cut one head off, two grow back. Players who spend that much time learning exploits can easily NOT use them so that they can have a bigger challenge.

 

Players have been making that argument for years, and I just don't buy it. Two points.

 

First, over time the AI has had problems in traversing a variety of cases, including

 

 

  • player underground
  • player on stilts
  • player riding
  • player treading water
  • broken stairs
  • broken ladder rung
  • hatch
  • can't fit between certain-shaped blocks
  • can't walk on certain-shaped blocks

 

 

In every one of these cases, you could have thrown up your hands and said oh well, good enough, exploiters gonna exploit. But you've cultivated a good track record by now. You can put a check mark next to most of these items as fixed. And every time you have, you've made the game better in the process: made another path balanced or at least balance-able.

 

Second, players aren't finding exploits just out of spite. They find the exploits largely because they've been put in a situation that rewards creative thinking. They are in a survival sandbox game, thrown to the wolves and under pressure to figure out the how of surviving for themselves. In other words, players are pushed into a role where they explore what's at their disposal, and ruthlessly leverage what they can find. That's what a sandbox survival game is all about. So please don't ask us to tie one hand behind our backs, and pretend there's a bigger challenge than there really is. That's poison to the survival thought process.

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Players have been making that argument for years, and I just don't buy it. Two points.

 

First, over time the AI has had problems in traversing a variety of cases, including

 

 

  • player underground
  • player on stilts
  • player riding
  • player treading water
  • broken stairs
  • broken ladder rung
  • hatch
  • can't fit between certain-shaped blocks
  • can't walk on certain-shaped blocks

 

 

In every one of these cases, you could have thrown up your hands and said oh well, good enough, exploiters gonna exploit. But you've cultivated a good track record by now. You can put a check mark next to most of these items as fixed. And every time you have, you've made the game better in the process: made another path balanced or at least balance-able.

 

Second, players aren't finding exploits just out of spite. They find the exploits largely because they've been put in a situation that rewards creative thinking. They are in a survival sandbox game, thrown to the wolves and under pressure to figure out the how of surviving for themselves. In other words, players are pushed into a role where they explore what's at their disposal, and ruthlessly leverage what they can find. That's what a sandbox survival game is all about. So please don't ask us to tie one hand behind our backs, and pretend there's a bigger challenge than there really is. That's poison to the survival thought process.

 

I agree. I hate it, when you have challenge before you, but in the back of your mind you know you are pretty much safe, because if things go dire, you can just use an exploit and survive. It takes tension out of the game, which sucks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Players have been making that argument for years, and I just don't buy it. Two points.

 

First, over time the AI has had problems in traversing a variety of cases, including

 

 

  • player underground
  • player on stilts
  • player riding
  • player treading water
  • broken stairs
  • broken ladder rung
  • hatch
  • can't fit between certain-shaped blocks
  • can't walk on certain-shaped blocks

 

 

In every one of these cases, you could have thrown up your hands and said oh well, good enough, exploiters gonna exploit. But you've cultivated a good track record by now. You can put a check mark next to most of these items as fixed. And every time you have, you've made the game better in the process: made another path balanced or at least balance-able.

 

Second, players aren't finding exploits just out of spite. They find the exploits largely because they've been put in a situation that rewards creative thinking. They are in a survival sandbox game, thrown to the wolves and under pressure to figure out the how of surviving for themselves. In other words, players are pushed into a role where they explore what's at their disposal, and ruthlessly leverage what they can find. That's what a sandbox survival game is all about. So please don't ask us to tie one hand behind our backs, and pretend there's a bigger challenge than there really is. That's poison to the survival thought process.

 

most those things are not exploits I will happily argue.... Tell me how a fatladyzombie or a cop or a hawaiin guy can fit thru a small gap between 2 blocks lol........

 

treading water.... zombies cant swim

 

broken stairs. That is just smart and one using their brains to be able to defend themselves and stay safe from zs not an exploit. tfp can bring in any type a z and there is always going to be a smart way to make sure your able to stay away from them in your base etc,. it isnt a exploit it is us using our brains and working our play styles.

 

Broken ladder rung same as above...

 

etc

 

etc

 

etc

 

not exploits

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

 

Any youtube fly throughs of some terrain I could see?

 

I did an overview of my NitroGen map

 

Edited by Lo-X (see edit history)
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Jesus christ dude, if it takes that long you need better hardware or an SSD. at MOST it takes 20 minutes to generate for me.

 

Sounds more like a server build to me. Here's the thing: I watched my GPU utilization. It was barely touched using NitroGen. 12k world in less than 5 minutes. It took nearly an hour and a half on a server with no GPU available for an 8k world. I will grant, a Xeon E5-2640 is a tad outclassed by a Ryzen 5 2600, but not by THAT much. Per-thread is only 25% passmark increase.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

 

most those things are not exploits I will happily argue.... Tell me how a fatladyzombie or a cop or a hawaiin guy can fit thru a small gap between 2 blocks lol........

 

treading water.... zombies cant swim

 

broken stairs. That is just smart and one using their brains to be able to defend themselves and stay safe from zs not an exploit. tfp can bring in any type a z and there is always going to be a smart way to make sure your able to stay away from them in your base etc,. it isnt a exploit it is us using our brains and working our play styles.

 

Broken ladder rung same as above...

 

etc

 

etc

 

etc

 

not exploits

 

No, let’s call a spade a spade. I’ll stop calling them exploits when there’s evidence the developer intends for the player to be unreachable in these situations. Not just “we didn’t catch that” or “we don’t have a good solution for that” but “yeah, that’s how we want it to be.” Though again, they’ve already done work on a majority of the exploits I listed.

 

Being a smart thing for a player to do doesn’t change the fact that being unreachable breaks the game. That was the second point I was making. The base building element if nothing else encourages player ingenuity, so it’s only natural for players to seek out advantages, and AI exploits are the ultimate advantage.

 

I do apologize for my brevity. When I said can’t fit between certain-shaped blocks, and can’t walk on certain-shaped blocks, I was really referring to cases where the AI thinks it can traverse these spaces, but actually misjudges the space and so gets stuck. For instance, I recall designs based on pillars or poles rotated just right, so that zombies would never squeeze through nor attack the blocks. I don’t think that happens anymore, and if so, the game is better for having that exploit removed.

 

Of course they can bring in a type of zombie you can’t stay away from, if they wanted to. Zombie ghosts. They float straight to the player character in any direction, through any type of block, as fast as necessary, and the player character dies when a ghost touches them. Bam, player loses. But of course, that would swing from unbalanced for the player to unbalanced against the player. Which highlights what it’s all really about: balance. When the player’s unreachable, the game can’t be balanced. All the levers and knobs you can adjust for balance - zombie numbers, zombie HP, zombie damage, etc. - don’t matter.

 

That’s why treading water is an exploit. Even if the lore says zombies can’t swim so it should work without a hitch, balanced gameplay demands that the zombies or something needs to be able to counter that tactic. Since the big water update has been so long coming, I’d speculate that’s part of why the worlds are so much drier than in the past. The devs likely recognized water has this and other problems, and so wanted to at least reduce the incidence of it until they work on the robust solution.

Edited by Crater Creator
Added quote (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

No, let’s call a spade a spade. I’ll stop calling them exploits when there’s evidence the developer intends for the player to be unreachable in these situations. Not just “we didn’t catch that” or “we don’t have a good solution for that” but “yeah, that’s how we want it to be.” Though again, they’ve already done work on a majority of the exploits I listed.

 

Being a smart thing for a player to do doesn’t change the fact that being unreachable breaks the game. That was the second point I was making. The base building element if nothing else encourages player ingenuity, so it’s only natural for players to seek out advantages, and AI exploits are the ultimate advantage.

 

I do apologize for my brevity. When I said can’t fit between certain-shaped blocks, and can’t walk on certain-shaped blocks, I was really referring to cases where the AI thinks it can traverse these spaces, but actually misjudges the space and so gets stuck. For instance, I recall designs based on pillars or poles rotated just right, so that zombies would never squeeze through nor attack the blocks. I don’t think that happens anymore, and if so, the game is better for having that exploit removed.

 

Of course they can bring in a type of zombie you can’t stay away from, if they wanted to. Zombie ghosts. They float straight to the player character in any direction, through any type of block, as fast as necessary, and the player character dies when a ghost touches them. Bam, player loses. But of course, that would swing from unbalanced for the player to unbalanced against the player. Which highlights what it’s all really about: balance. When the player’s unreachable, the game can’t be balanced. All the levers and knobs you can adjust for balance - zombie numbers, zombie HP, zombie damage, etc. - don’t matter.

 

That’s why treading water is an exploit. Even if the lore says zombies can’t swim so it should work without a hitch, balanced gameplay demands that the zombies or something needs to be able to counter that tactic. Since the big water update has been so long coming, I’d speculate that’s part of why the worlds are so much drier than in the past. The devs likely recognized water has this and other problems, and so wanted to at least reduce the incidence of it until they work on the robust solution.

 

Threading water luckily is one of the exploits that can be fixed relatively easy by taking a look at reality. There are not that many people that can thread water all night in their soaked full gear with backpack in cold water. Hypothermia, stamina loss and then drowning are usually the results in such situations. I remember a streaming using it once to beat my mod and then I added some buffs that made swimming for longer times very dangerous, causing hypothermia among others.

 

But I agree overal, exploits need to be addressed and turned into something that could work for say a limited time or against a certain challenge only. It is not necessarily a bad thing zombies cannot get to the player all the time, but when a big horde hits they need to have some ability to get to the player, damage him or bring the player to them by bringing down the structure they are on. There are improvements to be made to those things for sure, its better than it was, yes, but you can easily still climb on any POI roof and be safe, even from a bloodmoon horde.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The fat zombies should probably float on water. Not only is fat lighter than water but so are the gases produced as the intestines digest themselves.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would suggest all zombies float on water. This makes players wanting to hide would need to stay submerged for a long period or try evading them "floaters". Adding debuffs like hypothermia or swimming fatigue may be good, but considering it against a lack of breath is different. Players will not be able to float in one spot for long (at least underwater), so they won't be 100% safe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I would suggest all zombies float on water. This makes players wanting to hide would need to stay submerged for a long period or try evading them "floaters". Adding debuffs like hypothermia or swimming fatigue may be good, but considering it against a lack of breath is different. Players will not be able to float in one spot for long (at least underwater), so they won't be 100% safe.

 

zombies are not suppose to be breathing air so dont have any air in lungs to help float but..... oh yeah here it comes.... i would rather like to see dangerous fish like maybe.... sharks! as they wouldnt be dead and want something to eat as well... then a human in the water no matter what height/depth would be a free meal as he can out swim a shark. :)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

zombies are not suppose to be breathing air so dont have any air in lungs to help float but..... oh yeah here it comes.... i would rather like to see dangerous fish like maybe.... sharks! as they wouldnt be dead and want something to eat as well... then a human in the water no matter what height/depth would be a free meal as he can out swim a shark. :)

 

if they dont breath and dont have air in their lungs how the #$@! do they make all those noises!!! to the point once their heads are shot off they still make noise for 10 seconds...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

if they dont breath and dont have air in their lungs how the #$@! do they make all those noises!!! to the point once their heads are shot off they still make noise for 10 seconds...

 

It’s the midichlorians....duh. :p

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

It’s the midichlorians....duh. :p

 

No it's the 2030 Corona virus. Or zombies from outer space...?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If all zombies floated you've just reversed the problem, an air pocket at the bottom of a lake would be safe.

 

Having a mix of buoyancy would eliminate safe spaces altogether without the need for new entities. Not that there's anything bad about extra dangers in the water. :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As a suggestion, I'd like to see more practical use for collecting exorbitant amounts of feathers. While they are rather hard to come by early on and used to craft arrows almost exclusively, I find most of the bows obsolete once I am only a few days in and end up having upwards of a couple hundred of them, rendering the crafting of large amounts of arrows more or less useless in the long run and with it, feather collection. Additionally, they are only otherwise good for the puffer coat which is a fairly common drop, and unless I am hurting for currency, I have no use to craft more than one anyways. Could we maybe see a recipe to make something like a wing suit? something you can deploy at high altitude jumps to allow you to briefly soar for a while without taking fall damage as long as you land properly? It would be a great way to invest, say, 500 or so feathers, plus some leather (20?) , wood (20?), and a hefty amount of glue or tape to fix them to the apparatus (~30-50.) It would give us a reason to hoard them while upgrading skills, maybe stick it in a high tier science skill, probably under the vehicles and transportation type skill. For those of us who don't really put much into athletic skills but still want to get around faster than otherwise possible in game. It could also come with its own upgrades, such as pockets for extra storage, a jet booster which you can fill with a small amount of gas to cruise a little further and faster, or even insulation elements to allow better heating or cooling while deployed.

A wing suit / glider would be cool.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

 

Just turn off loot respawn, and then you have to travel further. Map size won't fix that. Besides I thought you guys have 16k working already with nitrogen?

 

I do run my server on Vanilla with 15-20 day respawns... for some of the more .."occasional players". But if you do turn them off..an 8k map becomes small very fast with or without vehicles !! I never used nitrogen and would probably blow up my computer trying to install it and make a map and besides most rented servers are locked down to stop you from using larger maps because they are so unstable.. We need bigger maps like before a16 when they were removed/broken.

 

Coughs * Airport POI * Coughs

Edited by Ouch Quit It (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The fact that POI's like gunshops, hardware stores, pharmacy's, library's and spamway are randomly missing from RWG maps. Probably others too, but I only check the stores in the prefabs.xml. I have made many bug reports on this issue. Even the PREGEN maps are not completely populated with stores.

 

I already said filling the list of pois before a dup is spawned is on the list.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...