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Ralathar44

Ralathar44

3 hours ago, Khalagar said:

Junk Turrets are decent enough but require a LOT more resources for an output that isn't really on par with the other classes tier 3's. It takes twice as many mods and an absolutely MASSIVE amount of resource cost to perform the same job the others can do cheaper. You have set up time for every engagement, and then you'll burn through 10 to 20 thousand iron per PoI if you are using the junk turrets very heavily, when instead you could just whip out a shotgun and clear the entire PoI with 50-100 shotgun shells which are pocket change to craft / find  compared to 2,000-3,000+ Junk Turret ammo, and you'd do it in half the time as the junk turrets with their set up time and pick up time

This isn't much of a deal on Nomad difficulty.  HOWEVER, the higher up you go in difficulty the less this is true.  The downfall of int is DPS and resource cost and each bump up in difficulty makes that weakness stand out more and mroe.  On the default difficulty (adventurer) everything is cake.  On the next level up (nomad), which used to be the old default, it's still pretty cakey, but once you start going Warrior and above the drawbacks of int start getting pretty noticable as anything tougher than Moe or a Hawaiin Zombie starts taking a long time to kill.  At least turrets have AP ammo now so they are not totally screwed vs high gamestage hordes relative to other specs. Penetration is a pretty big deal once the average horde zombie starts being feral or rad because of the sheer amount of hp being thrown your way.


So if you're on higher difficulties than warrior then yeah, Int is prolly a super expensive spec, albeit pretty safe.
 

3 hours ago, Khalagar said:

Another issue with the Junk Drone is all classes can and almost certainly *will* use it, because again, unless it's changed recently, it doesn't scale with perks at all. It's actually *worse* for the Int class than any other class because Mad Mole originally said he wanted it to take a Junk Turret spot. Which would mean int build instantly loses 50% of it's damage output just to use the Junk Drone that's "free" to every other class that couldn't care less about losing a junk turret spot they had no intention on using

I'll stay mum about the drone until it's in my hot little hands and I can test it directly.  That being said I have faith in TFP, if we give them good feedback they can verify they tend to make changes.  I remember the original implementations of Junk Turrets and I had some strong criticisms of them early on at a time where most people were in love with them...because they were using them off spec and I was testing them out on spec.  I remember posters justifying their launch state by "their not supposed to be a main weapon!" and the like.

But after conversations back and forth with the devs and a few videos the devs made several powerful and smart changes to them that brought int in line as a viable spec.  They nerfed baseline junk turret,  buffed the turrets syndrome skill, let them use more mods, and made the ammo stack much higher.  Overall int got much stronger, and it needed it, and junk turret stopped being a god item for every other spec and just became a useful item for every other spec.

And the ammo pool buffs for junk turrets and tying those to skills were a huge QOL/balance change.  You can see here how much time I was spending just constantly reloading those suckers pre-buffs.  It was like playing a reloading simulator instead of a game.  I took someone's advice on the forums and just had 4 turrets on horde night so I wasn't getting so much firepower downtime from the turrets.  IIRC they buffed baseline turret mag size, allowed them to use drum mag mods, and buffed turrets syndrome to give more mag size AFTER that video, so no longer do they run dry so much.  It's seriously one of the best changed made from the release state turrets.

I figure Junk drone will likely go through much the same cycle.  Implementation, feedback, iteration, and then the happies :P.

Ralathar44

Ralathar44

2 hours ago, Khalagar said:

Junk Turrets are decent enough but require a LOT more resources for an output that isn't really on par with the other classes tier 3's. It takes twice as many mods and an absolutely MASSIVE amount of resource cost to perform the same job the others can do cheaper. You have set up time for every engagement, and then you'll burn through 10 to 20 thousand iron per PoI if you are using the junk turrets very heavily, when instead you could just whip out a shotgun and clear the entire PoI with 50-100 shotgun shells which are pocket change to craft / find  compared to 2,000-3,000+ Junk Turret ammo, and you'd do it in half the time as the junk turrets with their set up time and pick up time

Equip heavy armor and a stun baton and "tank" for your turrets.  Between the stagger from the turrets and your baton you shouldn't be getting hit much if you have good timing.  For rooms with normal zeds and no ferals you can just full melee it with the baton, baton is lower damage than every other weapon but it does still get the job done vs regular zombies....the very low DPS mainly shows up on bikers/soldiers and feral/rad.  Many time I'll intentionally set up my turrets at the entrance of a room and then engage in melee out of their LOS and only fall back to them if I start to get too pressured or if I get rushed by some unseen ferals/rads.

HOWEVER, the higher up you go in difficulty the less this is true.  The downfall of int is DPS and resource cost and each bump up in difficulty makes that weakness stand out more and mroe.  On the default difficulty (adventurer) everything is cake.  On the next level up (nomad), which used to be the old default, it's still pretty cakey, but once you start going Warrior and above the drawbacks of int start getting pretty noticable as anything tougher than Moe or a Hawaiin Zombie starts taking a long time to kill.  At least turrets have AP ammo now so they are not totally screwed vs high gamestage hordes relative to other specs. Penetration is a pretty big deal once the average horde zombie starts being feral or rad because of the sheer amount of hp being thrown your way.

 

2 hours ago, Khalagar said:

Another issue with the Junk Drone is all classes can and almost certainly *will* use it, because again, unless it's changed recently, it doesn't scale with perks at all. It's actually *worse* for the Int class than any other class because Mad Mole originally said he wanted it to take a Junk Turret spot. Which would mean int build instantly loses 50% of it's damage output just to use the Junk Drone that's "free" to every other class that couldn't care less about losing a junk turret spot they had no intention on using

I'll stay mum about the drone until it's in my hot little hands and I can test it directly.  That being said I have faith in TFP, if we give them good feedback they can verify they tend to make changes.  I remember the original implementations of Junk Turrets and I had some strong criticisms of them early on at a time where most people were in love with them...because they were using them off spec and I was testing them out on spec.  I remember posters justifying their launch state by "their not supposed to be a main weapon!" and the like.

But after conversations back and forth with the devs and a few videos the devs made several powerful and smart changes to them that brought int in line as a viable spec.  They nerfed baseline junk turret,  buffed the turrets syndrome skill, let them use more mods, and made the ammo stack much higher.  Overall int got much stronger, and it needed it, and junk turret stopped being a god item for every other spec and just became a useful item for every other spec.

And the ammo pool buffs for junk turrets and tying those to skills were a huge QOL/balance change.  You can see here how much time I was spending just constantly reloading those suckers pre-buffs.  It was like playing a reloading simulator instead of a game.  I took someone's advice on the forums and just had 4 turrets on horde night so I wasn't getting so much firepower downtime from the turrets.  IIRC they buffed baseline turret mag size, allowed them to use drum mag mods, and buffed turrets syndrome to give more mag size AFTER that video, so no longer do they run dry so much.  It's seriously one of the best changed made from the release state turrets.

I figure Junk drone will likely go through much the same cycle.  Implementation, feedback, iteration, and then the happies :P.

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