Accustomed to Easy Street?

[Synvastian]

Hello everyone,

 

I'm making this topic to ask a simple question of a gathering of seemingly like-minded people {people who enjoy 7dtd}

 

The question is this...have players (in general, not just players of 7dtd) become so accustomed to being able to avoid all inconvenience in games, that the mere chance of failure makes something "too hard", or "not worth it?"

 

I don't know, but for me personally, those chances of failing make me try even harder to achieve things, and when I fail, I learn more than when I don't try.

 

I think the question really is, in my mind....Have games become too easy? have games rid themselves of all complexity? Is this the fault of developers? or is it the players?

 

rants, flames, questions about my sanity, support...send it all

 

everyone likes to Syn

[AtomicUs5000]

I think it is generally based on what the current gaming trends are.

 

Right now games that require thinking hard are just not what's popular.

In a way I kinda like it because the cost of new RTS and other strategy type game titles has been low. Complicated games might be unpopular at the moment, but they still exist and some do pretty well.

 

A few months ago while waiting for A18, I picked up the game "Oxygen Not Included" which is quite complex and not exactly what I would call an easy game. Anybody can play it and be successful for some time, but to really get into it, it does have a steep learning curve. Anyway, I ended up loving it and put a few hundred hours into in first month. I'm not the only one. This game was up there pretty high in Steam charts for many months and probably is still.

[Roland]

I am a bit surprised at how many people freak out and change the way they play due to a 4% chance to vomit.

[guardianangelmp]

I am a bit surprised at how many people freak out and change the way they play due to a 4% chance to vomit.

 

Humans are simple creatures, they will take the easiest path possible.

 

Why take the risk of food poisoning if canned food is so abundant and getting ingredients for cooked food can be much more time consuming and costly (sacrificing skill points when not needed)?

[JaxTeller718]

Hello everyone,

 

I'm making this topic to ask a simple question of a gathering of seemingly like-minded people {people who enjoy 7dtd}

 

The question is this...have players (in general, not just players of 7dtd) become so accustomed to being able to avoid all inconvenience in games, that the mere chance of failure makes something "too hard", or "not worth it?"

 

I don't know, but for me personally, those chances of failing make me try even harder to achieve things, and when I fail, I learn more than when I don't try.

 

I think the question really is, in my mind....Have games become too easy? have games rid themselves of all complexity? Is this the fault of developers? or is it the players?

 

rants, flames, questions about my sanity, support...send it all

 

everyone likes to Syn

 

Ill agree with this. I think it is also the curse of EA. A game will progress over time, and often many things people fall in love with change and no one likes change. At one point there was no leveled loot etc and you just looted anything. When that changed people hated it.

 

People hated gates and perks at first too, because all of a sudden things that were just there free and available suddenly had locks and progression. A lot of times games are basically "creative mode" when they first release to Alpha and then mechanics are added as we go forward. The recent talk and backlash against vehicles breaking down is a good example,. Im all for it but if that was the mechanic from day one it would have just been accepted as part of vehicles. Now its a jarring change and people are resistant to that.

[SenpaiThatIngnoresYou]

I am a bit surprised at how many people freak out and change the way they play due to a 4% chance to vomit.

 

I am enjoying it. A lot of those players kept going on and on and on about how easy the game was. They buffed the zombies up to be meat terminator bullet sponges, and they made over the top horde bases.

 

But the moment you add a little bit of strategy, a little bit of thinking, a little bit of risk; they lose their minds. They also snub the one perk that counters this, and refuse to take vitamins before eating cooked food.

[RipClaw]

I am a bit surprised at how many people freak out and change the way they play due to a 4% chance to vomit.

 

If you throw up in the middle of a POI full of zombies then it doesn't matter if the chances are 4% or 100%. The result is the same. A loss of stamina and stamina regeneration. So you change your playing style so that doesn't happen.

[AtomicUs5000]

If you throw up in the middle of a POI full of zombies then it doesn't matter if the chances are 4% or 100%. The result is the same. A loss of stamina and stamina regeneration. So you change your playing style so that doesn't happen.

 

I changed my play style for this very reason.

Now I eat before I enter a POI full of zombies.

[Laz Man]

I am a bit surprised at how many people freak out and change the way they play due to a 4% chance to vomit.

 

I think one of the biggest culprits is change. One of the drawbacks of early access. Players get use to how something plays and it becomes difficult to adapt when things change.

 

The irony is that early access is supposed to give devs more creative freedom since they are not limited by the constraints of a publisher....however sometimes it feels players are just as demanding....😂😂😂

 

Edit: this is not targeted at rip....who actually has adapted to a change in game mechanics...😁 @Roland, at least he didnt mod it out or started a boycott on the forums. 😂😂😂

[hotpoon]

Hello everyone,

 

I'm making this topic to ask a simple question of a gathering of seemingly like-minded people {people who enjoy 7dtd}

 

The question is this...have players (in general, not just players of 7dtd) become so accustomed to being able to avoid all inconvenience in games, that the mere chance of failure makes something "too hard", or "not worth it?"

 

I don't know, but for me personally, those chances of failing make me try even harder to achieve things, and when I fail, I learn more than when I don't try.

 

I think the question really is, in my mind....Have games become too easy? have games rid themselves of all complexity? Is this the fault of developers? or is it the players?

 

rants, flames, questions about my sanity, support...send it all

 

everyone likes to Syn

 

Probably to a certain degree. I think the bigger reason is that people find challenge in different things.

 

Some people want to be challenged by the survival aspect - the eating, the food poisoning, the infections, car breaking down etc.

Other people want to be challenged by zombies - how many there are, how strong they are, how much damage they do, etc.

 

Neither party are wrong or wanting to take the 'easy street'. They just play the game for different reasons. Balancing a game that straddles multiple genres is a difficult task for TFP, and they are never going to make everyone happy. The closest they can get to everyone being happy is to add enough in game settings and enough mod support so people can play how they want.

[mr.natural]

Two words: instant gratification.

As a result of the shortening attention timespan, first world disease.

[Katitof]

Two words: instant gratification.

As a result of the shortening attention timespan, first world disease.

 

I would argue that its being raised under umbrella, so the moment any slightest inconvenience happens, these people just instantly give up or change the way to something easier, even if its more tedious(like all the people that cook nothing but sham now in game, because they are too afraid that once every 20 meals they might have to eat twice).

[theFlu]

Implement a 4% chance for an instant death upon eating

Wonder why people don't like eating anymore

 

Sure the current implementation isn't exactly THAT retarded, but I'd say it's only about one step up. Barely. I mean, it's just a small chance per food item and you have a bedroll, just drop one before you eat?

 

EDIT: To not be just annoying..

It's not the idea of a food poisoning that annoys me. Sure, give us a mechanic for food poisoning.

-100 food once a week isn't food poisoning. I don't know what that is..

food poisoning, you eat, you get slightly nauseous and then depending on the severity, you'll get disabled and essentially unable to eat. Severity of the disable may vary.

 

For game play purposes, popping some specific meds while "slightly nauseous" may help. Doesn't need to though. Disabled.. stomach cramps; no sprinting, -20% accuracy. Zero stamina.

 

Actual mechanics, actual gameplay, not just "well, eat a 100 more food now, the more poisonous the better (since you can't lose anymore)" ...

[Katitof]

Implement a 4% chance for an instant death upon eating

Wonder why people don't like eating anymore

 

Sure the current implementation isn't exactly THAT retarded, but I'd say it's only about one step up. Barely. I mean, it's just a small chance per food item and you have a bedroll, just drop one before you eat?

You know someone doesn't have a valid argument when he opens up with massive exaggeration that doesn't have any root in reality.

 

 

 

EDIT: To not be just annoying..

It's not the idea of a food poisoning that annoys me. Sure, give us a mechanic for food poisoning.

-100 food once a week isn't food poisoning. I don't know what that is..

food poisoning, you eat, you get slightly nauseous and then depending on the severity, you'll get disabled and essentially unable to eat. Severity of the disable may vary.

 

For game play purposes, popping some specific meds while "slightly nauseous" may help. Doesn't need to though. Disabled.. stomach cramps; no sprinting, -20% accuracy. Zero stamina.

 

Actual mechanics, actual gameplay, not just "well, eat a 100 more food now, the more poisonous the better (since you can't lose anymore)" ...

Ah, I see this is your first alpha in 7d! Welcome to the community and don't worry, it'll get changed at least half a dozen of times within next 10 alphas, within next 10 years!

[theFlu]

You know someone doesn't have a valid argument when he opens up with massive exaggeration that doesn't have any root in reality.

 

Ah, I see this is your first alpha in 7d! Welcome to the community and don't worry, it'll get changed at least half a dozen of times within next 10 alphas, within next 10 years!

 

Yeah, because the gameplay would be so much different between my silly example and the current one. "Bad thing happens, deal with it."

 

Been around for a few alphas, absolutely expecting them to change that mechanic... mostly surprised that people are complaining about people complaining about a mechanic that everyone knows isn't the final version...

[Synvastian]

ah, I see that many have taken to the food poisoning issue using my question as a springboard (and while yes, the FoodPoison issue was one of many reasons I started the thread, it wasn't the only one)

 

My question was of the broad spectrum of player vs dev issues

[Laz Man]

[Roland]

ah, I see that many have taken to the food poisoning issue using my question as a springboard (and while yes, the FoodPoison issue was one of many reasons I started the thread, it wasn't the only one)

 

My question was of the broad spectrum of player vs dev issues

 

That was my fault sorry. I was throwing it out as an example and not as a topic change.

 

A corollary to your topic is one of punishment vs reward. For a gritty survival game I think that having punishments designed for when players make a mistake is good. I also think that random bad events are also fine. But there seems to be an intolerance to this by some and all they want are rewards.

[guardianangelmp]

That was my fault sorry. I was throwing it out as an example and not as a topic change.

 

A corollary to your topic is one of punishment vs reward. For a gritty survival game I think that having punishments designed for when players make a mistake is good. I also think that random bad events are also fine. But there seems to be an intolerance to this by some and all they want are rewards.

 

I think the feeling is that keeping your food bar or thirst bar high is not a "reward" per say, but rather a necessity, and right now there is little reward to using cooked food....so why take the risk?

 

People may see the food poisoning mechanic as a restriction of gameplay because the benefit it is supposed to offset is, so far, non-existent.

[asmosnuts]

Its a system thats pervading everything, people dont want any difficulty. The game has to have risk AND reward, cant be a survival game with nothing to survive. Coping with both illness and zs while trying to find meds can be both frustrating and a rush as you get more desperate. we now have copious food/tools/guns/armour with very little effort yet infection etc now and again is seen as unfair. It rarely leads to death and can be inconvenientbut its hardly game breaking.

Movies are largely plotless cgi romps now with little attempt at complexity because its perceived that no one has the concentration to work out a plot!

TV is the same and you can see the same thinking in lots of other areas. Apathy is king it seems and the uk government leads the way, we had to be good at something!