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Cooking has now become obsolete


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Iron Gut skill does exactly that, and even a master chef would still have chances of having food poisoning happen is such bad conditions (lack of soap, lack of proper heat control, possible mutations in animals and plants, micro contaminates you can't see or taste....possible fallout {nuke kind} there are so many possible variables that could contribute to why food poisoning is a thing.

 

and is a 4% chance really that bad that it constitutes another "oh no food poisoning exists nerf it please!!" post? this is like the 4th or 5th one

 

a 4% chance means that out of a possible 100 eaten meals, you MIGHT get poisoned a few times...

 

I'm sorry to interject but.....

 

With all respect, the presence and existence of auto-targeting scrap turrets with a laser sight in the apocalypse pretty much negates the realism you're trying to evoke here with the whole "A Master chef is cooking in an unclean environment" argument.

 

It utterly negates it. No need to overly defend the butchered state of the skill tree.

 

I went back to A16 with War of the Walkers Mod and it's amazing. The cooking is still very viable in A16. In A18, theres not much incentive to go beyond charred meat at all.

 

EDIT: But I do have to agree with you. The worst I saw in my play till level 20 in A18 was a 4% chance. I got poisoning only one single time. I'm more concerned about overall balance and the incentive to do things like plant veggies and take food to the next level.

 

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it's a meaningless legacy :D

 

#REMOVE IT

 

No, please. I genuinely enjoy the food mechanic in 7days, when it's balanced. I still think A16 was the most balanced in that regard. I know, I'm broken record. Can't apologize, it's possible A16 is one of the best games Ive played.

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I'm sorry to interject but.....

 

With all respect, the presence and existence of auto-targeting scrap turrets with a laser sight in the apocalypse pretty much negates the realism you're trying to evoke here with the whole "A Master chef is cooking in an unclean environment" argument.

 

It utterly negates it. No need to overly defend the butchered state of the skill tree.

 

I went back to A16 with War of the Walkers Mod and it's amazing. The cooking is still very viable in A16. In A18, theres not much incentive to go beyond charred meat at all.

 

EDIT: But I do have to agree with you. The worst I saw in my play till level 20 in A18 was a 4% chance. I got poisoning only one single time. I'm more concerned about overall balance and the incentive to do things like plant veggies and take food to the next level.

 

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No, please. I genuinely enjoy the food mechanic in 7days, when it's balanced. I still think A16 was the most balanced in that regard. I know, I'm broken record. Can't apologize, it's possible A16 is one of the best games Ive played.

 

and yet in the eyes of everyone complaining 4% chance to get food poison may as well be 100% from how much you all complain...hows that for realism?

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I agree with the OP. I think MasterChef and Iron Gut should be combined.

I also think there needs to be a compelling reason to invest more than 1 point. Maybe they could add in some other benefit to the perk, like eating the higher tier foods gives you long lasting buffs to speed or stamina.

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Or just eat a vitamin before you eat. Or just eat. It happens so rarely that it really isn't worth the worry.

 

and yet in the eyes of everyone complaining 4% chance to get food poison may as well be 100% from how much you all complain...hows that for realism?

 

 

It always depends on the personal experience how you see the 4%. If it never or only rarely happens to you then you consider the 4% to be low. But if it happened several times in a short period of time, the 4% seem much bigger.

 

I've never had food poisoning in A18 before but I restrict myself to prevent it from happening at a bad time. I only eat cooked food when I'm in the base and only canned food when I'm looting. Don't forget that your food and stamina are linked. If you throw up then you will lose almost all your food and a lot of your water. So your stamina and stamina regeneration are very low at this point.

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If anyone wants to know what real food poisoning feels like, I had it at around 11 or so and I threw up so many times I had to have a bucket near by and my mom was in the room with me comforting me because I really felt like I was going to die. Not fun for a kid to go through.

 

I had it again when I was 14, going to continuation school and eating garbage food out of aluminum tins. Throwing up constantly and even when you think you threw up all the food, well you throw up again, you can not hold down a spoonful of water or you throw that up as well, and the sickness feeling is like the flue with weakness and fever, luckily it only lasts a day, so it is a short period.

 

Sorry to gross anyone out but when "throwing up" was mentioned with food poisoning I remembered those 2 time it happened.

 

In the real world It could be a 0.09 chance to get food poisoning in your entire life.

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My decision tree at a the base campfire/food box:

0. Do I have a farm with potatoes and corn so I can just eat a stew without thinking about it.. fine, we're done.

No:

1. Do I have extra vitamins? Yes => Eat sham sandwiches til you're full. Takes third of the time compared to meat. No water, no drawbacks. For the sandwhich I pulled from a plastic bag at the junk yard...

No:

2. Have I made about two stacks of fresh meat to cover for the inevitable hurl? Yes => take them with you, clickety while you run somewhere and a stack of tea/coffee to cover the thirst..

No:

3. Eat a canned food from the 70s.. yay.

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Agree. Now eating looted food is 95% of what I do. Fits with their new vision of more looter shooter less crafting game.

 

I think it made more sense and was more fun when it was the other way around, looted food having a chance to be poisonous. Makes more sense bc even beeing canned food its an old food that has been around during a catastrophe or whatever happened. And more fun bc cooking is more fun than eating cans.

Sure, mid-late game food became not a problem. But I always thought food beeing a real problem only early game made sense anyway. And anyway the change hasnt "fixed" that , even the contrary, since we need to loot all the time now so we dont even need to hunt or farm.

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The first couple of trial and error starts in A18 I made it did bug a bit throwing up good bacon and eggs when u were short of food.

 

I have no problem with the skill system, and I always start with 1pt in Iron Gut. Get Master Chef and u get red tea.

 

Red tea gives u another plus on iron gut and so far, since always drinking a red tea before scoffing cooked food, I've puked once in 50hrs+ of play.

 

Puking is no longer a theme in my game, I don't need vitamins and I haven't spent points I don't want to, just added a bit of routine in the play style.

 

Maybe this can stop some unneccesary stomach rumbling......;-)

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Agree. Now eating looted food is 95% of what I do.

Interesting. We do exactly the opposite on our server. Since we can cook food, nobody wants to eat the canned food anymore.

It's annoying to need to eat 5 cans of food while eating one stew gives the same or even better result.

Only when we are out looting and food gets low and we already ate the food we braught with us, we start to eat the freshly looted cans. (And with 3-4 players the looted food is often just hardly enough).

 

We are slightly over day 50 now with 3-4 players and no one ever got a food poisoning. I got diarrhoea twice, maybe three times and some of my friends also got that occasionally, but never food poisoning.

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We are slightly over day 50 now with 3-4 players and no one ever got a food poisoning. I got diarrhoea twice, maybe three times and some of my friends also got that occasionally, but never food poisoning.

 

That's the point. You've never experienced it so it doesn't matter to you. On the other hand, if someone has experienced it in the early game then it matters to them.

 

Have you ever been involved in a car accident ? If so then you probably drove much more cautiously afterwards. At least until you have forgotten or repressed this accident. The chances of an event don't matter if it happens to you. And if that was an unpleasant event then you definitely want to prevent it from happening again.

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That's the point. You've never experienced it so it doesn't matter to you. On the other hand, if someone has experienced it in the early game then it matters to them.

That's the problem people have with statistics. Something like antivaxxers?

 

Have you ever been involved in a car accident ?

Yes, not even one, but three... and even one motorcycle accident.

(None of them was my fault, or could be avoided by me)

 

If so then you probably drove much more cautiously afterwards.

Yes, maybe i drive a little more carefull, but i didn't stop driving cars or motorcycles.

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Yep. That's exactly how the current system works.

 

The advanced foods fill you up completely in a few clicks and the cheap stuff is a lot more risky.

 

You forget one thing:

It still takes 2 stews to completely fill up. Andthose are endgame foods. So lets say you eat bacon and eggs.

So if you are level 30, you need 3-4 of them to fill up and another 1-2 to overfill so that you don't have to worry for some time.

At 3 your chances are 12.5% at 6 you are already at about 21%.

So if you eat bacon and eggs, one of the better foods, you have a 1/5 chance (I did not calculate for higher levels, since by then you bought iron gut) to lose it again, starting it over.

And the hunger meter is not instant. It rises slowly. And added foods do not stack up properly. So you have to sit there in front of your food chest/box and wait until your hunger has risen by 38.

And with some rng unluck, you ate 5 eggs (1:30 min) and have to do it all again, just because.

 

How can you guys defend this?

If the food would rise instantly... sure. Who cares. But no matter what food I eat, I need to sit there and wait until the hunger bar is filled up. It doesnt matter if I press W 20 times for baked potatoes or if I press it twice for stews. I still need to wait until it fills up. And that is bad design.

 

 

 

JUST TO MAKE THIS CLEAR:

I was one of the few who advertised that normal food should give food poisoning since you live in a radiated, unsanitized world (and cans become suddenly more valuable) but the way it is executed is not great.

 

Yes your theory is nice. Cooked food are faster... but it doesn't matter if we still need to wait for the food bar to crawl up.

 

Either make food go up instantly, or let us stack foods. That would still not fix that it is repetative and a self containing gameplayloop only designed to waste the players ressources... but at least it is not as boring for the player.

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If the food would rise instantly... sure. Who cares. But no matter what food I eat, I need to sit there and wait until the hunger bar is filled up.

Why do you have to wait? Eat one stew, put another one in your inventory and go doing other stuff and eat the one from you inventory 2-3min later (when the buff is gone). If you want to be almost save, take some vitamins with you, as written above.

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At 3 your chances are 12.5% at 6 you are already at about 21%.

So if you eat bacon and eggs, one of the better foods, you have a 1/5 chance (I did not calculate for higher levels, since by then you bought iron gut) to lose it again, starting it over..

 

Sorry completely disagree with you here, your problem seems to lie with your game style or thinking not with the game mechanics. Try putting one of your first free points on Iron gut, and one of your first 5 on master Chef. Cook yourself red tea, drink that and then eat your cooked food. I often put back 2 to 3 bacon and eggs with no risk of puking. You have a 4 min window to fill up. Just once in 50+hrs since I started this on warrior level have I puked, it's not a issue.

 

How can you guys defend this?

...., I need to sit there and wait until the hunger bar is filled up. It doesnt matter if I press W 20 times for baked potatoes or if I press it twice for stews. I still need to wait until it fills up. And that is bad design..

 

???? Wait on what? I just get on with the game never needed to wait and watch something unneccesary like this. Definitely not bad design.

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My solution to food poisoning has been to only eat cooked food when I've got the vitamin buff. I generally start each adventure by topping up my food, so I don't need to eat while out and about. If I do need to eat while looting I've probably found some canned food that will hold me over.

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That's the problem people have with statistics. Something like antivaxxers?

 

Something like that. However, the antivaxxers often add false information and generally have a wrong understanding of how vaccinations work.

 

With food poisoning in 7 Days to die, the way it works is clear. Every time you eat something, the chance of vomiting is 4%.

 

On average you should vomit at one of 25 meals but it isn't evenly distributed. You can't assume that you are safe for 24 meals once you vomit. It can also happen several times in a row. The worst thing is when you vomit, then you try to eat full and with the last dish it happens again.

 

With canned food you have a 0% chance of food poisoning. So you are always safe and don't have to rely on your luck.

 

Yes, maybe i drive a little more carefull, but i didn't stop driving cars or motorcycles.

 

No, but you changed your driving style. The players haven't stopped eating either, but they're eating what's safe for them.

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My solution to food poisoning has been to only eat cooked food when I've got the vitamin buff. I generally start each adventure by topping up my food, so I don't need to eat while out and about. If I do need to eat while looting I've probably found some canned food that will hold me over.

 

Agreed, my game play style too!

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You forget one thing:

It still takes 2 stews to completely fill up. And those are endgame foods. So lets say you eat bacon and eggs.

So if you are level 30, you need 3-4 of them to fill up and another 1-2 to overfill so that you don't have to worry for some time.

At 3 your chances are 12.5% at 6 you are already at about 21%.

 

That's not how percentages work...its 4% no matter what, percent doesn't increase per food eaten, so the chance is always a minuscule 4%...never more

 

its basic math, 4% is 4% unless some other metric adds/subtracts/multiplies or divides it....and there is no multiplicative buff/debuff to food in the game, you have the same 4% chance eating your first meal or your hundreth

 

the only way I can put this in reality terms is this...you're invited out to eat 5 days a week with co-workers at various restaurants, and you know (from newspapers/internet or whatever) that 4% of restaurant food has a chance of giving you the Sh*** or food poisoning the next day...do you tell your co-workers "nah, that 4% scares me too much" or do you say "yeah cool" knowing that one meal might be just slightly off, but at the same time all could be good?

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And the hunger meter is not instant. It rises slowly. And added foods do not stack up properly.

I do not have any bug report on this.

 

 

If the food would rise instantly... sure. Who cares. But no matter what food I eat, I need to sit there and wait until the hunger bar is filled up. It doesnt matter if I press W 20 times for baked potatoes or if I press it twice for stews. I still need to wait until it fills up.

You can choose to wait but you don't have to.

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That's the point. You've never experienced it so it doesn't matter to you. On the other hand, if someone has experienced it in the early game then it matters to them.

 

Have you ever been involved in a car accident ? If so then you probably drove much more cautiously afterwards. At least until you have forgotten or repressed this accident. The chances of an event don't matter if it happens to you. And if that was an unpleasant event then you definitely want to prevent it from happening again.

 

I have experienced it. It was on Day 2 and it completely disrupted and changed my first week routine. It was a tough challenge to overcome but I did it. I still eat charred meat all the time in the early game and clench my stomach every time I click eat and then feel a relief that I didn’t puke.

 

I wish there were more random events beyond the player’s control that would cause us setbacks and disruptions to the normal routine. Bad stuff should happen rarely that the player can’t prevent or plan for and can only react to.

 

The design is not the problem. The problem is that while some players see such things as challenges and emergent objectives, other players see them as a reason to feel anxiety until they happen and then a reason to put the game down if they ever do happen.

 

I was stressed and worried after it happened but Ingot through it and now I’m my memory it is one of the great stories of early game survival that I have.

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Cook yourself red tea, drink that and then eat your cooked food. I often put back 2 to 3 bacon and eggs with no risk of puking. You have a 4 min window to fill up. Just once in 50+hrs since I started this on warrior level have I puked, it's not a issue.

 

Red tea has no effect on food poisoning. A look at the XML file reveals that red tea only slows the metabolism down for a few minutes.

With a slower metabolism the maximum stamina decreases slower than normal but that's all.

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Thanks Ripclaw,

 

I have to accept what you are saying as I don't read XML files! All I can say is that I puked regularly in the first days before I started this strategy with red tea, and now I don't.

 

Maybe it shouldn't help, but not knowing that I did it! And it appears to work, (touch a Zombie it will continue now!)

 

Maybe someone else should test it, and if it works, then don't tell the XML files.

 

have a good week end

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On average you should vomit at one of 25 meals but it isn't evenly distributed. You can't assume that you are safe for 24 meals once you vomit. It can also happen several times in a row. The worst thing is when you vomit, then you try to eat full and with the last dish it happens again.

Yes, but it can also happen the other way round. It's not guaranteed that the 25th meal gives you food poisoning. You might even be able to eat 100 meals in a row and not get it once.

As i said, no one on our server up to today (day 50-60 somewhere) NOBODY ever got a food poisoning.

However, sometimes RNG likes to ♥♥♥♥ you. ;)

 

With canned food you have a 0% chance of food poisoning. So you are always safe and don't have to rely on your luck.

But with very heavy drawbacks: You can only find them, you can't create them yourself. They only give little food and stamina, so you have to eat a lot more and additionally the canfood stackes bad.

Don't know if you play Single oder Multi, but with 4 Players on a Server and 30-day lootrespawn, it's not possible to either loot enough canned food and even if you buy allt the (canned) food from the trader it's not enough.

Might be easier in singleplayer, where you don't have to share your supply.

 

 

No, but you changed your driving style. The players haven't stopped eating either, but they're eating what's safe for them.

Yeah, like in 7t2d i eat in the base where i also have my medics. Or i have vitamins with me. Maybe not eating during bloodmoon or during raiding a poi and have no quick escape possibilities. But not stop eating any self cooked food at all.

But if the accident would have changed my driving style so drastically not do drive faster than 30km/h anymore, i would have more likely stopped driving at all.

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