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Scyris

Do zombies have i-frames now?

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Do zombies have invunerability frames now in a18? I notice sometimes when they swing, even though I have a clear shot at their body (the arm is not blocking it), it sometimes doesn't even register as a hit, almost as if the zombies have been given iframes during certan parts of their attack animations. Hits that should have interupted their attack are not doing anything at all at times.

Edited by Scyris (see edit history)

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Do zombies have invunerability frames now in a18? I notice sometimes when they swing, even though I have a clear shot at their body (the arm is not blocking it), it sometimes doesn't even register as a hit, almost as if the zombies have been given iframes during certan parts of their attack animations. Hits that should have unterupted their attack are not doing anything at all at times.

 

I have notice this too. It seems like the bullet just pass through the intended target and hit whatever is behind it. It is annoying.

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I have notice this too. It seems like the bullet just pass through the intended target and hit whatever is behind it. It is annoying.

 

Ive read a dev (I think it was gaz but not sure) say last weak that he has heard this complain but hasnt seen a single video where that really happens.

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I don't think it's really iframes, but a combination of jerky animations and bad (yes, bad) melee mechanics. I rarely ever have trouble hitting stuff with firearms, because they're hitscan and don't require leading your shot. Just precision will do.

 

But with melee, you somehow require timing AND pinpoint precision, even when the zombie is all up in your face. If your crosshairs aren't on the zombie's hitbox at the right moment in the swing animation, you will just miss, even if the zombie is well within the arc of your weapon visually speaking. This happens a lot because the animations are very exaggerated (head movement especially) and seem to be choppy regardless of FPS.

 

Fast weapons like knives and fists suffer less from this, but clubs and sledges (imho) feel terrible due to these mechanics. I've gotten used to it in the sense that I can whack zombies reliably enough to make the weapons useful enough, but every fight is a reminder that so many other games did it better.

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Ive read a dev (I think it was gaz but not sure) say last weak that he has heard this complain but hasnt seen a single video where that really happens.

 

I've had the bullet thing happen on more than one occasion but its not something you can really make happen, it just happens when it does. Would be hard to get a video of it tbh. Most of my issue though is with melee, and how janky the hitbox and such is. IMO if the zombies in the crosshair for any part of the swing they should get cleanly hit.

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Ive read a dev (I think it was gaz but not sure) say last weak that he has heard this complain but hasnt seen a single video where that really happens.

 

It would only take playing the game for 1/2 an hour to see it happen, it is not like it is rare or an intermittent bug. It happens consistently and to many players. I would find it shocking if TFP's do not actually know this happens, or their testers or devs havent ever seen it happen regularly.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

I don't think it's really iframes, but a combination of jerky animations and bad (yes, bad) melee mechanics. I rarely ever have trouble hitting stuff with firearms, because they're hitscan and don't require leading your shot. Just precision will do.

 

But with melee, you somehow require timing AND pinpoint precision, even when the zombie is all up in your face. If your crosshairs aren't on the zombie's hitbox at the right moment in the swing animation, you will just miss, even if the zombie is well within the arc of your weapon visually speaking. This happens a lot because the animations are very exaggerated (head movement especially) and seem to be choppy regardless of FPS.

 

Fast weapons like knives and fists suffer less from this, but clubs and sledges (imho) feel terrible due to these mechanics. I've gotten used to it in the sense that I can whack zombies reliably enough to make the weapons useful enough, but every fight is a reminder that so many other games did it better.

 

Ya, except its not about needing percision at all. It will happen with your crosshairs dead center on their torso the entire swing, and woosh.

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Can confirm this happens to both me and my wife. Consistently. Especially with Arrow/Bolts and in melee it is very apparent that this happens, but I have seen it happen when sniping too.

 

I was assuming this has something to do with the simplified hitboxes they added/fixed to make for better performance of the game.

 

Quite annoying at times. But since 7dtd was always a bit flunky with precision/accuracy and hitboxes it's not like it's been surprising. Just surprised it got worse than in previous alpha-updates.

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Happens with every weapon some more than others,dont know how many times arrows/shots have missed from close distance. Melee is worse, face to face with a z and hitting boxes behind them is frequent.

Its like one of the previous alphas where you could swing at a rock 3-4 times and not hit it.

Also clipping through doors/spawning in rooms in front of you and falling through staircases when knocked down is still happening.

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I've noticed an issue with not being able to attack zombies while they are getting up for a few builds now. Seems like while they are getting off the ground they are completely invulnerable to damage, hits don't even register.

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IMO if the zombies in the crosshair for any part of the swing they should get cleanly hit.

 

Assuming they are in range...

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I miss with clear shots from bullets, arrows, swinging anything. Seems to randomely go right through the zombie. this is a huge annoying bug that needs to be addressed.

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Assuming they are in range...

 

Sledge has 2.6 block range, the zombie was 1 block from me, I was aiming at the torso there was no way I could have missed, but it did.

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I regularly see swings pass right through the zombie I have in my cross hairs, shooting not so much but my clubs and bats and every other weapon I have used since A18 started has every few fights gone right through center mass on a swing without any hit whatsoever. I don't even bother with headshots any more, just wasting stamina. This is a problem, it needs to be acknowledge by the devs and it needs to be fixed. Ignoring it and pretending it isn't happening is just causing frustration among a lot of players.

 

At this stage of the game with POI's full of nothing but glowies and ferals I honestly don't even try to melee any more, you can't trust it when it matters.

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Has anyone been able to post a video of this happening? Saying it's apparent to everyone is nice but having something to document this will go a long way to getting the devs involved.

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I've experienced the same thing a few times. I know I've said "that bullet went straight through him!" out loud at least a few times recently. I just chalked it up to panic shooting and "maybe I did miss".

 

Has anyone been able to post a video of this happening? Saying it's apparent to everyone is nice but having something to document this will go a long way to getting the devs involved.

 

I think I run something like a 2 minute "Instant Replay" via geforce experience. Assuming it still happens in 18.1, and if I can remember to save the video, I can share it.

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I know I've chucked a spear into a sleeper's shoulder at a decent range and it didn't actually hit them, just stuck in the wall. I think it might have had something to do with the LODs for the zombies, but that's not the same problem OP is talking about lol.

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Everybody should be posting vids on this that can. I'm running on a toaster or I would.

 

I wouldnt even know where to start, personally. I have never had the desire to record my own gaming, or stream or anything like that.

 

I want to be clear, I have not seen it happen with any guns or ranged weapons. 100% sledges is where I have experienced it. Any type of sledge. Also its usually when the zombie is mid swing, rag dolled, etc but can also happen right after those animations when they are just walking, as far as I can tell.

 

Havent even been playing much for the last 4-5 days, waiting for either the next experimental or whatever update comes.

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This game uses "accuracy" in some way. There are mods we can get that state things like "increases accuracy when aiming" or "increases accuracy when firing form the hip", for example. This makes me think there might be a "dice roll" somewhere where the game determines if you hit something or not. Thus having the target definitely within your cross-hairs when you fire doesn't guarantee a hit, it simply guarantees that you get to roll the dice to see if you hit. Just a theory. Otherwise, please explain to me what a mod actually does on a gun if it "increases accuracy"??

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Otherwise, please explain to me what a mod actually does on a gun if it "increases accuracy"??
Haven't seen a random chance in action.

 

Increased accuracy is about tightening the crosshair. And for that to make sense, I guess I'll need to explain the crosshair..? :)

 

The crosshair shows you the area where your shot will actually land. If it's wide, like running with a rifle, it'll land "somewhere", if it's narrow, it'll land, well somewhere, but in a smaller somewhere :) Always within the lines of the crosshair.

 

With a laser pointer mod, you can see the actual point where the shot will land. (Seems accurate based on my tests with a crossbow.) The point of aim travels around, in random moves within the crosshair area, spending something like 70-80% of the time very close to the center.

 

Adding accuracy will bring the crosshairs closer to the center, bringing the random travel closer to the center and thus making the shots more accurate.

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This game uses "accuracy" in some way. There are mods we can get that state things like "increases accuracy when aiming" or "increases accuracy when firing form the hip", for example. This makes me think there might be a "dice roll" somewhere where the game determines if you hit something or not. Thus having the target definitely within your cross-hairs when you fire doesn't guarantee a hit, it simply guarantees that you get to roll the dice to see if you hit. Just a theory. Otherwise, please explain to me what a mod actually does on a gun if it "increases accuracy"??

 

I think it just shrinks the aiming "reticle" is all. I see a noticeable difference if I swap out folding stock on a marksman rifle. Not huge, not enough to be worth it, but noticeable. If you fire a gun the strike can land anywhere inside that reticle in the center of your screen. Thats why I do not count "misses" that should have hit the zed when firing guns, I can usually see the bullet land somewhere just outside the zeds body area where the target area inside the reticle is and I realize the RNGeezus failed me and the round just didnt hit close enough to center. This mostly happens with the ak/marksman/hunter rifles obviously. I'm a surgeon with the shotguns and pistols by comparison, those simply do not miss.

 

HOWEVER, with melee the target reticle is very very small, which is actually kind of irritating. So you HAVE to line up a blow center mass or headshot (that head weaving around such as they do). Center mass it is, but you can see where you hit "should" go. And like others have said either when they are swinging or if they are starting to stand up, sometimes, your perfectly lined shot will seem to go right through them. Target area dead set in their chest, right in the 1/2 meter sweet spot or or wherever, skills and stat maxed out with rank 6 weapon all covered in mods and it just sails through the zombies incorporeal chest and your standing there looking at it like

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Even the zeds behind him stop for a second and go "yea dog that shoulda been a hit". It really messes with the flow of the combat when it happens. You will be just knocking off heads like Babe Ruth and it happens you just gotta grunt, roll your eyes and grit your teeth while the moment passes. Try to get your head back in the game. Oh it's irritating.

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I regularly see swings pass right through the zombie I have in my cross hairs, shooting not so much but my clubs and bats and every other weapon I have used since A18 started has every few fights gone right through center mass on a swing without any hit whatsoever. I don't even bother with headshots any more, just wasting stamina. This is a problem, it needs to be acknowledge by the devs and it needs to be fixed. Ignoring it and pretending it isn't happening is just causing frustration among a lot of players.

 

At this stage of the game with POI's full of nothing but glowies and ferals I honestly don't even try to melee any more, you can't trust it when it matters.

 

Yeah, if I got running zombies coming at me I always aim for a torso hit and hope it knocks them down on the first hit, it usually does as long as its not a fat feral or a feral wight. Im on warriro with a t5 steel sledge and 4 in the sledge perk, can 1 shot female zombies with torso power attacks, and 2 hit male zombies with normal swings, probally when I get 5 in the sledge perk i'll be 1 shotting male zombies on body power attacks. Later game its better to aim for knockdowns first then go for headshots with a sledge, due to the wonky melee mechanics and running zombies just being a pain in the arse to headshot. I been saying this for a while they really need to tweak sleeper spawns, so poi's with nothing but ferals and rads shouldn't happen, higher gamestage means higher chance a sleeper can be one but it should never get to the point every single one is one of those, maybe 50% at max.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

This game uses "accuracy" in some way. There are mods we can get that state things like "increases accuracy when aiming" or "increases accuracy when firing form the hip", for example. This makes me think there might be a "dice roll" somewhere where the game determines if you hit something or not. Thus having the target definitely within your cross-hairs when you fire doesn't guarantee a hit, it simply guarantees that you get to roll the dice to see if you hit. Just a theory. Otherwise, please explain to me what a mod actually does on a gun if it "increases accuracy"??

 

Its not a dice roll, what it does is tightens the crosshair. Shotgun choke, foregrip, laser sight, you'll notice the crosshair get smaller as u apply each of these mods. Apply all 3 to a pump shotgun and you get some insanely accurate buckshot spray there with virtually no spread.

Edited by Scyris (see edit history)

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Haven't seen a random chance in action.

 

Increased accuracy is about tightening the crosshair. And for that to make sense, I guess I'll need to explain the crosshair..? :)

 

The crosshair shows you the area where your shot will actually land. If it's wide, like running with a rifle, it'll land "somewhere", if it's narrow, it'll land, well somewhere, but in a smaller somewhere :) Always within the lines of the crosshair.

 

With a laser pointer mod, you can see the actual point where the shot will land. (Seems accurate based on my tests with a crossbow.) The point of aim travels around, in random moves within the crosshair area, spending something like 70-80% of the time very close to the center.

 

Adding accuracy will bring the crosshairs closer to the center, bringing the random travel closer to the center and thus making the shots more accurate.

 

The laser pointer is pretty accurate as to where a shot will land, i've messed with it with the ak and pistol, there is a debug command you can enter to see hit markers when you hit something that shows "where" it was hit, and for me the laser pointer generally lined up. Only exception is shotgun with buckshot, as it fires 8 pellets, the laser is only correct for 1 of the 8.

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