Melee is it me or is the new mechanic hot garbage?

[leaderdog]

A16 and before I had no issues with melee combat. Sure it wasn't perfect, but more often than not you hit your target. You're using a spiked club which is essentially a blunt weapon, so as long as you're swinging in front of yourself with a zombie/target in range... I would hope you would hit it. It's really not that complicated.

 

A17-A18. it's like you put a rng on the swing. I was not happy with a17 mechanic as it was just a gunshot with a blunt weapon. Being that precise with a blunt weapon was preposterous.

 

I find I'll swing 3 or 4 times at a zombie and miss. I've quit so many times just furious with the mechanic as melee is my preferred method of combat. I used to melee a16 horde nights rather than use firearms because it was fun. Now I find the game is the opposite of enjoyment and I've quit in frustration so many times. Taken a week or more off then come back to try and tame the melee combat, but I hate it. Sorry pimps this is a swing and a miss.

 

Now.... Am I doing something wrong? lots of people seem to enjoy this hard to hit nonsense and I can't possibly understand why? If I was stabbing a sword/spear and I miss then fine, but I'm a club wielder and there is no way I should miss this frequently.

 

Is my mouse sensitivity too high? or what? Help me out here please.

 

Failing that, are there plans to fix/correct unfrack the current melee system?

[Ghostlight]

It's definitely off. I had a difficult time initially in A18, despite being a big melee fan for many alphas before it. However you get used to its "offness" I guess as I have less problems now. Nevertheless I still have the rare occasion where I am sure I hit, and it doesn't register.

[demegod]

I'm with you on this. I havent played clud/sledge since A16. But i dont see it changing any time soon, and as they say cant beat em, join em... so now i use spears only for melee so at least it makes sense to my brain lol

[erlgrey]

hit detection is really off and you notice it quite fast with clubs because you hit everything behind your target but not the target itself if you are close to it.

 

but i also often see shotgun shells or bolts pass zombies without hitting them, when they run close towards you and are performing some animations..

[HungryZombie]

The melee in this game has always been adequate at best. It's something I can work with but it could be much improved.

[Freshmint]

Its the glancing blow system. I demonstrated how it worked a while back and other issues it had from earlier builds(somewhat now fixed) as seen on my other vids. Also have to take into consideration lag from online play which is less solid than single player.

 

 

The system has so much potential so i guess its a matter of time as they add new things and finetune what they already have.

[leaderdog]

Its the glancing blow system. I demonstrated how it worked a while back and other issues it had from earlier builds(somewhat now fixed) as seen on my other vids. Also have to take into consideration lag from online play which is less solid than single player.

 

 

The system has so much potential so i guess its a matter of time as they add new things and finetune what they already have.

 

interesting, so they did go with ray casting? However... by this logic you're showing, considering I typically open with a right click swing with the iron club, often with a single zombie in front of me. I shouldn't be missing. Hence why it feels like a rng swing simulator rather than reasonable combat.

 

In your video you missed several times when it should have been a hit as well.

 

I guess I will have to wait to see if they can clean this mess up because right now it is abysmal.

 

excellent video by the way.

[Freshmint]

Yeah it looks like they went with ray casting. It's always hitting at full distance though so if your too close to zombies it moves through to the next target.

 

Basically now you have 2 systems in place. The original hit detection and an added glancing system. The 2 have to work in synergy so sometimes they cancel each other out. There us no occlusion ether when landing a hit nor any relevance to the animation itself. It's a pretty big job to review it so it might be worked on over time through alphas.

[kuratowakiru]

iirc, glancing blow do like 2 damage, that why there a lot of "misses". And the zed shoulder hitbox are wonky. Plus I think whenever a zed goes to hit you and you're aiming at it torso, somehow the arm will get in the way, making it a glancing blow (don't quote me on that last 1, it kinda hard to test, but that what it feel like)

[Thundy]

It's not just you. I use sledgehammer as my main weapon and the swings just go straight through sometimes which when you're seeing nothing but tons of radiated and specced in heavy armour so there's no stealth killing is a real game breaker. Can't afford to be missing when you're not :-/

[Scyris]

The nice thing about the glancing blow system is it can be pretty nice with the sledge, hit the zombie in front the glancing blow somehow also hits the one behind him knocking it down. My record is knocking 4 down with 1 normal swing, only seen it happen once as conditions and zombie positions had to be like perfect for it to happen.

[Ganeden]

The issue is that they treat melee targeting the same way they do with ranged targeting. The reticle needs to be on the target or it does not count. I know they recently added the 'glancing blows' but they might as well not even exist for the damage they do. I'm fine with such a system when you're at max range with a melee weapon but the hitbox should be cone shaped so that the closer you are the better chance you have of hitting them. You can have your melee weapon literally swing through the body of a zombie six inches from your face and it does nothing if you don't have the reticle on them.

[wizard puke]

I do agree that it's kind of bad atm but I think as long as they keep working on it the end result will be way better than the railgun sledgehammer of a17.

[wizard puke]

the hitbox should be cone shaped so that the closer you are the better chance you have of hitting them.

 

It's not just like a blanket shape that registers as hit or miss for a specific time frame. It's a series of rays casted at angles/distances based on how fast you are swinging a weapon. In most games I'm familiar with at least... The former would be like you are playing Roblox or something

[SickPuppy]

Yes a lot of misses with melee, especially with clubs and sledges. Other melee weapons don't feel too bad.

 

You do get used to it though, couple of perks and knock down mod I go for body shots for those tricky zeds with small head hit box. Knock them down or stagger for that sweet power head shot.

 

It's not perfect but I think with new rage system melee is more strategic now.

[Ramethzer0]

Melee combat when not using the sledgie seems like early morrowind level melee.

[beHypE]

They should try to replicate the system of games like Mordhau. Doesn't have to be as deep but right now melee combat feels very 2005'esque.

[Kilroy83]

It's not only a melee thing but a close combat bug, if you shoot someone with a double barrel shotgun at close range there's no chance to miss, but when those runners catch up to you it's rng, you either send them flying or completely miss

[Scyris]

It's not only a melee thing but a close combat bug, if you shoot someone with a double barrel shotgun at close range there's no chance to miss, but when those runners catch up to you it's rng, you either send them flying or completely miss

 

I've had my shotgun barrel literally right inside a zombies torso and somehow missed. I think part of the problem is running zombies tend to glitch inside the player a bit so it screws with aiming as the game sees them as inside the same block as you, so it'd be like hitting yourself. You notice the most hit glitches on running zombies though usually. Also glancing blows need to do more damage, about all they are useful for is with weapons like the sledgehammer, which has a high knockdown chance, can graze multiple enemies on a normal swing and knock them all down. IMO it should do 30-50% of your damage on a glancing blow. Compared to now where all it seems to do is piss them off and make them rage while not really doing any noticable damage.

[leaderdog]

Yes a lot of misses with melee, especially with clubs and sledges. Other melee weapons don't feel too bad.

 

You do get used to it though, couple of perks and knock down mod I go for body shots for those tricky zeds with small head hit box. Knock them down or stagger for that sweet power head shot.

 

It's not perfect but I think with new rage system melee is more strategic now.

 

The only problem with this is it flies in the face of everything you know about zombies... It's always go for the head.

 

My problem is typically a single zombie. I miss so often when I know it should have connected. It's not out of range and the crosshair went right through it's head. Yet it's a toss of the dice whether it's a connection or not. Which as I mentioned in my first post, I think if you stood with a club/bat in your hands and swung at something walking in front of you, the chances of you missing are near 0 simply because it is a blunt weapon, unless you're to weak to swing the club there is little to no chance of you not hitting your target.

 

Body shots are counter intuitive with zombies. That's why I kept asking for a shove/push/kick option if they get in close rather than a secondary swing which up until Freshmint posted I had no idea they were two different directional swings. I never noticed the swing change, I thought they just added a grunt to it.

 

as for strategy, I have no problem with the rage system they added, however, it doesn't "improve" strategy if your attack is random whether it hits or not. Strategy would be (if we had it) 20-30 zombies walking towards you, and you figuring out what objects on the ground/buildings you could use to block vision so you can chip away at their numbers. Not a RNG chance if you hit the single zombie standing in front of you. That's no fun at all, using your terrain to assist in killing the zombies would be far more fun I believe, but then again we'd have to have dumb zombies again as well rather than the block engineers we have currently.

 

What the current system does do is make running zombies scarier, not because they're harder, but because you know it's going to be a swing and a miss more often than not, which makes them scary for the wrong reasons.

 

I sure hope they can figure this out so it plays properly and can be enjoyable again. I've never quit a game in frustration so much before because of broken game mechanic.

[pApA^LeGBa]

I get total misses while i see the sledgehammer going right trough the zombies face. Not like close on the side. No, right trough the middle of the head and still a miss. And not only when they are really close.

[Scyris]

I get total misses while i see the sledgehammer going right trough the zombies face. Not like close on the side. No, right trough the middle of the head and still a miss. And not only when they are really close.

 

Same, everytime I play I have a ton of hits that just make me go: "Wtf how did that miss?" every game. I blame part of the problem on how melee hit detecting works like guns. its a raycast, and the raycast is only on a certan part of the swing. In a17 it generally was when the weapon passed thru/over the crosshair that was the raycast. Still annoying as if your even 1 pixel off when that raycast fires you'd miss. The glancing blows system kinda helps, but it needs to do a much bigger percent of your damage, maybe 50%, as it is about all I find it useful for is glancing blows can knockdown zombies with sledge/clubs that aren't the main target. So at least it lands the enemy on their butt and is free hits after, other weapons kinda got it worse like knives, they have no knockdown, or spears only have it on a throw.

[SickPuppy]

The only problem with this is it flies in the face of everything you know about zombies... It's always go for the head.

 

My problem is typically a single zombie. I miss so often when I know it should have connected. It's not out of range and the crosshair went right through it's head. Yet it's a toss of the dice whether it's a connection or not. Which as I mentioned in my first post, I think if you stood with a club/bat in your hands and swung at something walking in front of you, the chances of you missing are near 0 simply because it is a blunt weapon, unless you're to weak to swing the club there is little to no chance of you not hitting your target.

 

Body shots are counter intuitive with zombies. That's why I kept asking for a shove/push/kick option if they get in close rather than a secondary swing which up until Freshmint posted I had no idea they were two different directional swings. I never noticed the swing change, I thought they just added a grunt to it.

 

as for strategy, I have no problem with the rage system they added, however, it doesn't "improve" strategy if your attack is random whether it hits or not. Strategy would be (if we had it) 20-30 zombies walking towards you, and you figuring out what objects on the ground/buildings you could use to block vision so you can chip away at their numbers. Not a RNG chance if you hit the single zombie standing in front of you. That's no fun at all, using your terrain to assist in killing the zombies would be far more fun I believe, but then again we'd have to have dumb zombies again as well rather than the block engineers we have currently.

 

...

 

I agree with the ridiculous misses when you know you're close enough and aiming at their head, yet their arm-length strike hits us?!

 

But I don't mind body hits to zombies, like I say it adds to the strategy a little bit, do u risk the head shot or be safe with a body blow. I guess they could make non-head strikes non lethal, so you'd have to strike the head at some point to kill. If it's just head shot>kill, head shot>kill, it'd get a bit routine-like. I remember striking a zombie as he was trying to jump up onto a counter, no way I could've got his head so I aimed for his abdomen, sent him flying I literally shouted out lol. He didn't die but gave me time to deal with his cheerleader friend.

 

...

What the current system does do is make running zombies scarier, not because they're harder, but because you know it's going to be a swing and a miss more often than not, which makes them scary for the wrong reasons.

 

I sure hope they can figure this out so it plays properly and can be enjoyable again. I've never quit a game in frustration so much before because of broken game mechanic.

 

Agree it's more difficult for the wrong reasons, but thing is I'm having too much fun with a18, hope they fix the headshots anyways. Weird thing is I'm not nearly missing as much with the other melee weapons. Could it be a balance thing?!

[Jeraal]

Zombie laying on the ground stunned. Crosshairs dead between the eyes...swing and a miss! Hit the concrete under his head.

[leaderdog]

@sickpuppy

 

Sure body shots are needed from time to time. Or possibly crowd control. But when you have a single zombie walking in on you, it's a head shot, no sense needed for a body shot because it's a guarantee connection. Unless of course you're playing 7 days to die, in which case it's a flipping toss of the dice.

 

and what Jeraal mention has happened so many times to me as well.