Please Stabilize What You Want This Game To Be

[kaobserver]

Like many other games in the past you guys are changing up things drastically to the point of bringing back new systems, throwing out old, then bringing them back again. Personally speaking I get used to the last build then you completely change it in this one.

 

I don't mind changes and improvements but these changes are drastic and not needed. Recipes are back in when it was fine that you get them with skill points in my opinion. I know I'm not being clear as I need to be here but reading the notes from the last major update to this one you can see what I'm talking about.

 

And for anyone else this is solely my opinion so keep that in mind if you respond to this thread.

[Rez090]

Like many other games in the past you guys are changing up things drastically to the point of bringing back new systems, throwing out old, then bringing them back again. Personally speaking I get used to the last build then you completely change it in this one.

 

I don't mind changes and improvements but these changes are drastic and not needed. Recipes are back in when it was fine that you get them with skill points in my opinion. I know I'm not being clear as I need to be here but reading the notes from the last major update to this one you can see what I'm talking about.

 

And for anyone else this is solely my opinion so keep that in mind if you respond to this thread.

Wrong side of the forum

[crazywildfire]

Like many other games in the past you guys are changing up things drastically to the point of bringing back new systems, throwing out old, then bringing them back again. Personally speaking I get used to the last build then you completely change it in this one.

 

I don't mind changes and improvements but these changes are drastic and not needed. Recipes are back in when it was fine that you get them with skill points in my opinion. I know I'm not being clear as I need to be here but reading the notes from the last major update to this one you can see what I'm talking about.

 

And for anyone else this is solely my opinion so keep that in mind if you respond to this thread.

 

Yelp wrong section this is console section.

 

But I will say welcome to an unfinish game. This is what alpha is. Some stuff comes as some stuff goes. Some stuff are place holder things while they work on other things. Some stuff might be in now because the other part that tries into it isn't finish yet. I mean it is like 100 different things and possibilities of why this and why that. So to sum it up welcome to alpha

[wastelandstoic]

Yelp wrong section this is console section.

 

But I will say welcome to an unfinish game. This is what alpha is. Some stuff comes as some stuff goes. Some stuff are place holder things while they work on other things. Some stuff might be in now because the other part that tries into it isn't finish yet. I mean it is like 100 different things and possibilities of why this and why that. So to sum it up welcome to alpha

 

 

OP has perfectly valid observation despite the posters who want to instantly jump on other posters opinions that don't coincide with their own. On the above counter post, why is this still an unfinished game? They have had perfectly viable versions of the game (ala 16.4) that they have then taken U turns on and then continue to U turn on once again. How many years now is this an alpha version of a game? And why? Developers now seem like they can't decide what they want the game to be and just hit it with a "make it simple/ dumb it down" hammer as a result of their cluelessness. So, yeah to sum it up welcome to a clueless game project.

[crazywildfire]

OP has perfectly valid observation despite the posters who want to instantly jump on other posters opinions that don't coincide with their own. On the above counter post, why is this still an unfinished game? They have had perfectly viable versions of the game (ala 16.4) that they have then taken U turns on and then continue to U turn on once again. How many years now is this an alpha version of a game? And why? Developers now seem like they can't decide what they want the game to be and just hit it with a "make it simple/ dumb it down" hammer as a result of their cluelessness. So, yeah to sum it up welcome to a clueless game project.

 

A perfectly viable version of the game of 16.4 in your opinion. Doesn't mean it is what they seen the game they want in that version. Why is is starfield still being worked on? How long have they been working on that game? Since 2013 and it is being made by a way bigger company. So many other games been in development for years the only difference is you don't get to play those as they are being developed so you don't get to see all the twists and turns that they make while developing them. In alpha you get to experience the process and when someone opinion is goin this way (in this case what they see as a finished game) others don't. Either way it doesn't matter what we think we are not the ones developing the game it isn't our project it is the developers. Sometimes you might not see the logic or the reasons as they do but doesn't mean it isn't there. So as I previously said welcome to alpha if you don't like it I recommend to stay away from alpha and play complete finished games because not really any other way to say it.

[Liesel Weppen]

Like many other games in the past you guys are changing up things drastically to the point of bringing back new systems, throwing out old, then bringing them back again. Personally speaking I get used to the last build then you completely change it in this one.

Which system did they throw out and brought it back later?

 

I think TFP is still looking what they want the game to be exactly. And what they changed doesn't essentially change the game. It's still open-world-crafting-survival.

 

People like you want the hear that, i know, but it's overally true: If you don't want a game making such changes, don't buy early access games. NEVER!

 

Neverthless 7d2d at least uses the steam beta branches, so you can roll back to whatever version you want if you don't like the current version or want to continue playing an older version for whatever reason.

[DeadGerry]

OP has perfectly valid observation despite the posters who want to instantly jump on other posters opinions that don't coincide with their own. On the above counter post, why is this still an unfinished game? They have had perfectly viable versions of the game (ala 16.4) that they have then taken U turns on and then continue to U turn on once again. How many years now is this an alpha version of a game? And why? Developers now seem like they can't decide what they want the game to be and just hit it with a "make it simple/ dumb it down" hammer as a result of their cluelessness. So, yeah to sum it up welcome to a clueless game project.

 

OP has a perfectly valid opinion, but not necessarily observation;

 

Read the plans for the game when they started developing; 16 was not it. They're working towards their own vision, which they outlined in the goals initially. Things change, technology changes and the engine changes - but you can't decide what their vision is / was / will be - it's their game.

 

recipes are back because the point and perk system wasn't what they wanted or what a lot of other players wanted and was unbalanced between SP and MP. Single player needed access to things they could not realistically get with a balanced MP perk system; and if SP could unlock everything they needed with perks then MP became OP.

 

If you don't like it go play something else; or just roll back to alpha 16 and play that; but complaining that game still being developed is... still being developed is just sad.

[guardianangelmp]

Which system did they throw out and brought it back later?

 

 

Schmatics.

[Linkhead2]

OP has a perfectly valid opinion, but not necessarily observation;

 

Read the plans for the game when they started developing; 16 was not it. They're working towards their own vision, which they outlined in the goals initially. Things change, technology changes and the engine changes - but you can't decide what their vision is / was / will be - it's their game.

 

recipes are back because the point and perk system wasn't what they wanted or what a lot of other players wanted and was unbalanced between SP and MP. Single player needed access to things they could not realistically get with a balanced MP perk system; and if SP could unlock everything they needed with perks then MP became OP.

 

If you don't like it go play something else; or just roll back to alpha 16 and play that; but complaining that game still being developed is... still being developed is just sad.

 

Take it from the Consumer's perspective before you begin digging yourself a hole you got no way of leaving. People have put money, time and other priceless elements into something they deeply care about. People Complain mainly out of care becuase they want to see the game flourish. (I know ive already said quite a lot of negative things about the devs but) The Dev's seem unaware or oblivious to a lot of things the community requests, Its putting their own ideas above everyone else and its going to hurt them in the long run.

[Telric]

Take it from the Consumer's perspective before you begin digging yourself a hole you got no way of leaving. People have put money, time and other priceless elements into something they deeply care about. People Complain mainly out of care becuase they want to see the game flourish. (I know ive already said quite a lot of negative things about the devs but) The Dev's seem unaware or oblivious to a lot of things the community requests, Its putting their own ideas above everyone else and its going to hurt them in the long run.

 

To be fair, 90% of what this community complains about can be modded in just 2 minutes of changing xml files. But they lack the will to actually do anything about it themselves. It's always someone elses job huh....

[BobTheBard]

To be fair, 90% of what this community complains about can be modded in just 2 minutes of changing xml files. But they lack the will to actually do anything about it themselves. It's always someone elses job huh....

 

I'd just like to pop in to say "If you don't like the product you bought you should fix it yourself" is an argument you'd accept from literally no other kind of company. I'll also point out that the 'two minutes' argument is only true if you're one, changing something very basic, two, already have all the tools, software, and knowledge to do it, and three, are willing to do it every single time the game updates and resets your changes. So it's certainly not something everyone's going to be willing or able to do.

[meganoth]

Take it from the Consumer's perspective before you begin digging yourself a hole you got no way of leaving. People have put money, time and other priceless elements into something they deeply care about. People Complain mainly out of care becuase they want to see the game flourish. (I know ive already said quite a lot of negative things about the devs but) The Dev's seem unaware or oblivious to a lot of things the community requests, Its putting their own ideas above everyone else and its going to hurt them in the long run.

 

Yes, putting their ideas above everyone elses is the privilege of self-employed developers. They usually want to make their own game, not the game of someone else. If they were content to implement the ideas of someone else they would get a job at EA, Ubisoft,... and get told what to do.

 

Your post is simplifying the situation: There is no community pulling in one direction. Every player has his own ideas and suggestions and wants. If TFP listens to "the community" they would have to implement 20 different games for 20 years and still get complaints about being ignored.

 

Tell me, does the community want more weapons, more zombie types, more end-game, LBD, a pure sandbox, a difficult survival game, no hard surivival stuff, more animals, food spoilage, definitely no food spoilage, more crafting, more building features and blocks available, more FPS optimizations, better graphics? it seems they want all of that.

[Boidster]

I am really tired of Ford putting its own design ideas ahead of my own. BRING BACK WHITE SIDEWALL TIRES AS STANDARD!!!

 

Also, we only bash you because we love you, TFP. Why do you make us complain like this, when you could make it all stop?

[Telric]

I'd just like to pop in to say "If you don't like the product you bought you should fix it yourself" is an argument you'd accept from literally no other kind of company. I'll also point out that the 'two minutes' argument is only true if you're one, changing something very basic, two, already have all the tools, software, and knowledge to do it, and three, are willing to do it every single time the game updates and resets your changes. So it's certainly not something everyone's going to be willing or able to do.

 

Yes but you didnt buy the product, you bought the prototype. You bought into the development process, which includes reworks and scrapping. They have given very easy to use tools to learn how to modify the game. XML is not a coding language. Its all in english... Plenty of people know english. Not only that, there are already modders that are happy to help you learn it the easiest way possible. And yes you should be starting with 2 minute simple mods. Not jumping into complex animations and such.

 

I understand not everyone is up to the task of modding, but expecting the devs to change their plans and ideas to suit your wants and needs isnt the way to get things done.

 

But, i know i wont win any argument in this forum... Everyones already set in the idea to complain and never get anything done rather than take the time to learn how to mod it in yourself... (Btw once you learn, it opens up endless possibilities. Just sayin...)

[Roland]

I'd just like to pop in to say "If you don't like the product you bought you should fix it yourself" is an argument you'd accept from literally no other kind of company. I'll also point out that the 'two minutes' argument is only true if you're one, changing something very basic, two, already have all the tools, software, and knowledge to do it, and three, are willing to do it every single time the game updates and resets your changes. So it's certainly not something everyone's going to be willing or able to do.

 

I'll pop in to say as well that most of the things people are saying need to be fixed are simply not broken. They just aren't what they prefer. If you hate spending points on perks and want it to just advance passively through actions then a mod that makes that happen is changing the game but it isn't fixing anything. If you can't play with dogs and feel they break the game that is your own personal preference. It doesn't mean the game is actually broken with dogs and by installing a mod that removes dogs you aren't fixing a product you bought. You're changing its nature to be more like you want it which literally is your responsibility and not the developers as they make the product.

[Roland]

The Dev's seem unaware or oblivious to a lot of things the community requests, Its putting their own ideas above everyone else and its going to hurt them in the long run.

 

They are neither unaware nor oblivious. They know AND they are putting their own ideas above everyone else. Period.

 

Whether that hurts them or not remains to be seen but so far they are doing well.

[AKMrTumnus]

Take it from the Consumer's perspective before you begin digging yourself a hole you got no way of leaving. People have put money, time and other priceless elements into something they deeply care about. People Complain mainly out of care becuase they want to see the game flourish. (I know ive already said quite a lot of negative things about the devs but) The Dev's seem unaware or oblivious to a lot of things the community requests, Its putting their own ideas above everyone else and its going to hurt them in the long run.

 

I disagree with a number of you on why you think this Alpha has been lackluster (personally its the greatest and showing so much promise to be better than most AAA titles out now) The devs are actively allowing a player base to play, mod, and customize their product. But they are still in the process of refining, optimizing, and building their vision. If you want to build your own download Unity and begin designing your game, its free. Or take the time to learn how to make the XML edits or modlets that you desire. Or visit the modding forums and find what you are looking for.

 

My playstyle doesn't always groove with what the devs are working towards, therefore i added modlets, POI's, and changed the spawn rates in multiple biomes. But if i were a new player, i feel that i would be happy with this product as is. But alas, i am not. Therefore i must change the game to adapt to me, while i wait for this title to go gold.

 

It's very much like Skyrim is many regards, i played Vanilla until i had done everything i wanted, then to keep the game fresh and challenging added mods. The diffence being Skyrim came out without an Alpha title with it. I wasn't having to relearn between patches. I think so many people have difficulty remembering this is a WIP. A very good WIP, but nonetheless a WIP. Be patient and enjoy the twist and turns. But most importantly don't mistake your perspective for being right. Complaining out of care is still complaining and will fall upon deaf ears.

[JCrook1028]

I'd just like to pop in to say "If you don't like the product you bought you should fix it yourself" is an argument you'd accept from literally no other kind of company.

 

It's true anytime you're buying a product BEFORE it is finished being developed and ready for general release to public sale. YOU chose to buy an unfinshed/still being changed game. Period, end of story.

[BobTheBard]

Yes but you didnt buy the product, you bought the prototype. You bought into the development process, which includes reworks and scrapping. They have given very easy to use tools to learn how to modify the game.

 

I'll pop in to say as well that most of the things people are saying need to be fixed are simply not broken. They just aren't what they prefer. If you hate spending points on perks and want it to just advance passively through actions then a mod that makes that happen is changing the game but it isn't fixing anything. If you can't play with dogs and feel they break the game that is your own personal preference. It doesn't mean the game is actually broken with dogs and by installing a mod that removes dogs you aren't fixing a product you bought. You're changing its nature to be more like you want it which literally is your responsibility and not the developers as they make the product.

 

It's true anytime you're buying a product BEFORE it is finished being developed and ready for general release to public sale. YOU chose to buy an unfinshed/still being changed game. Period, end of story.

 

If you're serious about expecting every person with complaints to mod the game to turn it into the game they want, then does that mean you don't consider any criticism valid since any problem can potentially be fixed by a determined enough modder or a version rollback? Because that's what I'm taking away from replies like these, and from similar statements made in multiple other threads. If no criticism is valid since 'modders can fix it' or 'it's just an alpha' then you're basically saying that giving feedback, requesting changes, and explaining why we like or don't like certain things is a waste of time. The devs won't (and indeed, shouldn't) listen to it, since modders can make everything better. Right?

 

Suppose I'll stop giving feedback, then. What's the point if I'm just going to get dogpiled for it and nobody cares about it anyway? Back to lurking for me.

[Roland]

If you're serious about expecting every person with complaints to mod the game to turn it into the game they want, then does that mean you don't consider any criticism valid since any problem can potentially be fixed by a determined enough modder or a version rollback? Because that's what I'm taking away from replies like these, and from similar statements made in multiple other threads. If no criticism is valid since 'modders can fix it' or 'it's just an alpha' then you're basically saying that giving feedback, requesting changes, and explaining why we like or don't like certain things is a waste of time. The devs won't (and indeed, shouldn't) listen to it, since modders can make everything better. Right?

 

Suppose I'll stop giving feedback, then. What's the point if I'm just going to get dogpiled for it and nobody cares about it anyway? Back to lurking for me.

 

Not at all. I'm not sure why you would take it that way. You should give feedback and make your preferences known. There are still a lot of balls up in the air and where they land can certainly be affected by consumer feedback. Literally the difference between A17.0 and many of the A17.x updates as well as A18 itself is largely due to the feedback they received and they acknowledged that in the very patchnotes themselves.

 

But there comes a point when the devs say that Feature A is the way we want it and we aren't changing it. At that point, yammering on with negative complaints and rants isn't going to help. At that point the ONLY answer is "Mod it".

 

So, for example,

 

LBD: Mod it. Continued threads and posts about how much you wish we had it and trying to convince the devs to change back to it are pointless and pretty annoying at this point. It isn't going to happen. If you can mod it then do it. If you can't and it's a deal breaker than move on to your next game.

 

Looting/Crafting Balance: Give feedback. This isn't done yet and making your voice known is important.

[Telric]

If you're serious about expecting every person with complaints to mod the game to turn it into the game they want, then does that mean you don't consider any criticism valid since any problem can potentially be fixed by a determined enough modder or a version rollback? Because that's what I'm taking away from replies like these, and from similar statements made in multiple other threads. If no criticism is valid since 'modders can fix it' or 'it's just an alpha' then you're basically saying that giving feedback, requesting changes, and explaining why we like or don't like certain things is a waste of time. The devs won't (and indeed, shouldn't) listen to it, since modders can make everything better. Right?

 

Suppose I'll stop giving feedback, then. What's the point if I'm just going to get dogpiled for it and nobody cares about it anyway? Back to lurking for me.

 

Criticism is great... its the constant nagging about stuff that's the problem.. Example.. the glass jar.. How many forum posts have been created to complain about that. At some point it is no longer criticism but nagging. Which btw is easily fixed with adding a single property to food items in the xmls. Why havent the devs done it? Maybe they dont want it in. Maybe they see you can make endless jars with just a handful of sand and its considered balanced and they are happy with it. Yet we constantly see that forum post every update.

 

Im not saying voicing your opinion is bad... By all means, go for it. Just dont expect the devs to drop everything they are working on to fix a small thing that you deem a problem... THAT is why i say learn to mod.

[JCrook1028]

If you're serious about expecting every person with complaints to mod the game to turn it into the game they want, then does that mean you don't consider any criticism valid since any problem can potentially be fixed by a determined enough modder or a version rollback? Because that's what I'm taking away from replies like these, and from similar statements made in multiple other threads. If no criticism is valid since 'modders can fix it' or 'it's just an alpha' then you're basically saying that giving feedback, requesting changes, and explaining why we like or don't like certain things is a waste of time. The devs won't (and indeed, shouldn't) listen to it, since modders can make everything better. Right?

 

Suppose I'll stop giving feedback, then. What's the point if I'm just going to get dogpiled for it and nobody cares about it anyway? Back to lurking for me.

 

If that is what you took from my comment then you have a reading comprehension problem. I said nothing remotely close to that. Please reread my comment in the context it was given.

[PaybackXero]

The Dev's seem unaware or oblivious to a lot of things the community requests, Its putting their own ideas above everyone else and its going to hurt them in the long run.

 

Uhh, yeah, that's how game development works, especially when you own your own company and aren't locked into any contracts from giant publishers.

 

You get an idea for a game, it becomes a vision, and you set out to create that game. Outsiders will have a lot of ideas, but unless they go hand-in-hand with your vision, you ignore them. The idea is to create the game you set out to make, and see how many people like/buy it. You don't start a game, then throw your idea under the bus and just start implementing community ideas that go against the idea/point of the game you wanted to make, all in the name of satisfying an ever-growing number of people with different ideas of what is fun.

 

tl;dr Compromising the vision you have for your game is a terrible idea. As more and more people flock to your game, there will be more and more "ideas" from the community, and if you listen to / implement many of them, you'll ruin your game and alienate your core audience. Very few ideas from the community are ever worth implementing.

[Sjustus548]

Take it from the Consumer's perspective before you begin digging yourself a hole you got no way of leaving. People have put money, time and other priceless elements into something they deeply care about. People Complain mainly out of care becuase they want to see the game flourish. (I know ive already said quite a lot of negative things about the devs but) The Dev's seem unaware or oblivious to a lot of things the community requests, Its putting their own ideas above everyone else and its going to hurt them in the long run.

 

I would much rather see the devs design the game how they want to than completely change it by giving in to every demand from the players. It's great for the devs to listen to the players, and I wholeheartedly believe that they do, but they should never make a change that they are against just because some players want something changed. I feel that players feedback should be more towards balance issues and not gaming changing aspects. Players should definitely discuss game changing ideas because maybe we will come up with an idea that never crossed the devs minds. Just don't expect because you ask for it that the devs will implement it. Also if the devs come out and say that an idea isn't going to happen, *cough* LBD *cough* it will be a good idea to stop bringing it up in every single post. As much money, time and other priceless elements the players have put in the game the devs have devoted so much more. As much as the players love this game it is the devs' baby.

[guardianangelmp]

Really I think the issue is people are not satisfied with how their concerns are recognized and the lack of ways to meaningfully express that they don't like the way the game is going.

 

The only ways you have, currently, to say "I don't like the way the game is going" is to say so on the forums (though the common response to concerns/complaints is often, basically, "tough ♥♥♥♥") or to not play the game.

 

The problem with both those options is they, 99% of the time, have no impact.

 

Early Access games have basically become game pitches to public investors. The problem is people put their money into the game without any way of pulling it out if the game becomes something they didn't sign up for.

 

Really, early access games should not be b2p but rather have a very cheap sub ($1-$5 per year or $0.25-$0.50 per month). That way people can say "I'm not going to pay for this" way the game takes a direction they don't like and they also won't feel like they have been given a bait and switch tactic.