Another "direction of the game thread" and iam concerned...

[n2n1]

This is now developed on the principle of:

"this game has something - for everyone"

[Kattla]

This is now developed on the principle of:

"this game has something - for everyone"

 

Like a jack of all trades, and a master of none?

I actually like A18, even if i sound a bit cold about it.

[n2n1]

Like a jack of all trades, and a master of none?

I actually like A18, even if i sound a bit cold about it.

Yes, i also like some things from A18, but in general - the game is spoiled, at least, compared to itself.

Many developers are working on this game, some are doing their job well and some are not...perhaps without malice.

[Scyris]

What difficulty and gamestage are you all on? Tbh, I've seen progressively more and more wandering zombies the higher my gamestage goes - up to the point where I drive around and can't go a couple seconds without running into a few or a wandering pack. I still think it should be a bit more, perhaps earlier than what it has been anyway. Honestly, on the harder difficulties and horde night spawn counts I don't think you'd fare too well without a base, unless you spend a lot of time repairing POIs.

 

I really feel you about sleepers. Tbh I don't like them at all, aside from maybe a few of them here and there for scares - that's always refreshing to have a jump scare time to time. But there really are just too many sleepers, although they reduced them, I think just having a lot inside there along sleepers here and there in surprise parts would make it more fun. All sleepers... meh. I'd prefer a "trigger spawn" of a random horde kinda like the supplies quests do to send some zombies into/around the POI you're in.

 

The roamers do apparently increase based on gamestage, or at least I agree that it feels like it does. As for the sleepers, they kinda make sense at least the ones out in the open, a zombie may go dormant with nothing around to stimulate it a bit. However the ones busting out of closets and falling from the cieling just make no sense really at all. What also doesn't make sense is why are so many poi's a dungeon like maze? who the hell would set their house up like that? I do admit some of them are nice like that one spanish house that has a door in the basement behind a wine barrel leading to a pretty big bunker full of zombies and surgical equipment. I miss learn by doing, check out darkness falls mod for a17.4 to see how to do it right. Basically don't really have crafting tied to it, just stuff like weapon skills, armor skills, athletics and such.

 

My biggest issue with A18 is well the loot, its just far to easy to get high tier items in loot. Day 15 without lucky looter and I mostly start getting tier 3-5 stuff only, with the odd t6. I think they have gamestage upping loot too much at low gamestages. in A16, you'd not even find qual 300-500 stuff often till day 50 or 60+, unless you got really lucky. The devs know there is an issue though, they plan to rebalance the loot, as it is just too easy to get high tier things from loot.

[n2n1]

Hiding zombies only fire once. It was shortsighted to use that in this game.

Now when i go into the house - i tiresomely think: - "ok....well, there will jump out a zombie..."

 

The problem is that now it all makes me think so - it doesn't benefit the gameplay.

Designers need to choose other approaches, taking into account the repeatability of situations.

[Scyris]

Hiding zombies only fire once. It was shortsighted to use that in this game.

Now when i go into the house - i tiresomely think: - "ok....well, there will jump out a zombie..."

 

The problem is that now it all makes me think so - it doesn't benefit the gameplay.

Designers need to choose other approaches, taking into account the repeatability of situations.

 

Yeah, once you've been thru a few poi's you can stand at the entrance of a seemingly empty room and be able to predict where the zombies will come from, is there a closet? or a room with a door thats not a door? its a 1 hp panel a zombie is going to most likely bust thru second you walk in the room. This really screws stealth builds as many of them can't hit the zombie without getting rid of the panel first.

[Kalen]

Yeah, once you've been thru a few poi's you can stand at the entrance of a seemingly empty room and be able to predict where the zombies will come from, is there a closet? or a room with a door thats not a door? its a 1 hp panel a zombie is going to most likely bust thru second you walk in the room. This really screws stealth builds as many of them can't hit the zombie without getting rid of the panel first.

 

I feel like those hidden zombies should only be there when you're in the POI for a quest. Still not perfect, but at least you can avoid it by not taking quests if you want.

[Kalen]

How did you do this? I've been trying but with no luck.

 

Here you go...

 

<append xpath="/quests/quest[@id='tier5_clear']">
<reward type="SkillPoints" value="1" />
</append>

[Lightingfast29]

Sorry but that distinction goes to Alpha 16 when stealth was introduced and smell removed and zombies were broken neither being able to hear or see you from 3 blocks away at night. If you have been hiding at night for all of A16 and A17 then the joke's on you. I do miss the nights being scary and dangerous but I've been missing it for a couple of years now and not a couple of months...

I hope they add these futures back:) cause right now zombies are not a threat:(

[tricorius]

The number of sleeper/hidden zombies are fine now compare to before. They've also reduced the number of dungeon house which is also a good change. I mean not all houses can have dungeons, right? Finding loot in houses is normal, however I do agree that there should be less final/super containers. I think the reason they added those was to allow trader quests.

.

 

You know...this makes sense. That those were added for Quests. However, if that's the case it could be done so much more interestingly.

 

For instance, perhaps the vast majority of the time in the POI you don't get the treasure vault version of the loot room.

 

IF, however, you're doing a quest, then the loot room is more "treasure vaulty".

 

This would incentivize questing, in addition to making things like Lucky Looter better overall (and less overpowered, in general).

 

I also think that it would make a lot more sense to find destroyed or deteriorated stuff as primary loot. After all, this is an apocalypse, finding pristine unopened M60s somewhere people lived makes little sense. (If I were the house owner and the FedEx guy dropped off my Shotgun Messiah create you'd damn well better believe I'm chopping that thing open right away. And if I'm the FedEx guy and I drop a Shotgun Messiah crate off and no one signs, you better damn well believe I'm coming back by in a week or two to see if anyone opened it... If not, that thing may just find its way back on my truck...)

 

[Birkenhoff]

Mining is more necessary than ever, have you even crafted anything yet ? Iron bars are crazy expensive and iron is overall needed for a TON of stuff. You need more bullets & gas than ever, so I gotta say I don't see how you just "farm the top of the ore veins" and be done with it.

As far as loot goes, you can just turn down loot abundancy. And well... not feeling rushed before the 7 days hordes... try going back to 50 min days like it used to be and tell me how much free time you have before the next horde arrives... honestly I feel pressured with 60 min days between looting, mining, visiting traders, doing quests, cooking food, building my base, planning out my progression, etc etc.

 

On the other hand mining was never that easy. You simply dig out the 'ore cone' of iron that is usually rich of coal, nitrate and lead.

 

The other thing is difficulty. I for example hate time pressure. I hate games with timed missions or round based strategy games with limited moves. I like dangerous environments not the feel of beeing in a constant hurry. It doesn't work to simply shorten the days to make the game more difficult if someone complains about environmental changes within the game. Those are two very different animals.

[PPanda0421]

You know...this makes sense. That those were added for Quests. However, if that's the case it could be done so much more interestingly.

 

For instance, perhaps the vast majority of the time in the POI you don't get the treasure vault version of the loot room.

 

IF, however, you're doing a quest, then the loot room is more "treasure vaulty".

 

This would incentivize questing, in addition to making things like Lucky Looter better overall (and less overpowered, in general).

 

I also think that it would make a lot more sense to find destroyed or deteriorated stuff as primary loot. After all, this is an apocalypse, finding pristine unopened M60s somewhere people lived makes little sense. (If I were the house owner and the FedEx guy dropped off my Shotgun Messiah create you'd damn well better believe I'm chopping that thing open right away. And if I'm the FedEx guy and I drop a Shotgun Messiah crate off and no one signs, you better damn well believe I'm coming back by in a week or two to see if anyone opened it... If not, that thing may just find its way back on my truck...)

 

 

Some good ideas. I think they've already nerfed some of those chests in experimental. I'm on the stable branch atm so I don't know if that's the case. The guns already have random durability when you find them. If you want to go that far, then all shotgun messiahs should have brand new weapons in general. Broken or non-pristine weapons should be located in the shotgun messiahs repair/used/2nd hand section. Pawn shops would contain both (pristine items would be stolen goods).

 

I have watched too many zombie/apocalytic-themed movies to know that you need guns to survive in that world. In that sense, gun stores would probably be empty having been looted early on in the apocalypse. I don't know the lore/timeline of 7D2D so I can't say much about the

background info. That would be a interesting new setting though: Time of apocalypse. Early, middle, late. Early indicates the beginning of the apocalypse where food and items are plentiful and there are less zombies. In the late setting, food and items are scarce and there are a lot of zombies (from people being killed/turned). Also when they add bandits. Little or no bandits in the beginning but later on, groups of bandits form. Just some ideas...heheh.

[Weyrling]

My opinion is pretty much that an interesting zombie game has to have environmental zombies, hordes, and NPCs.

 

There are occasionally a few environmental zombies, but default settings give you zero hordes. NPCs get a pass cause alpha.

 

You can change the blood moon settings to get a real horde, so basically the game is interesting for awhile once every 7 actual hours.

[Hollowprime]

We need less wardrobe zombies and more of the other type. There were some really creepy places in the basements were there are lots of zombies stacked surrounded by harvestable corpses. This eerie feeling that these people were struggling to survive so they ended up eating each other or worse, got trapped and were infected,some of them devoured hole by the horde.

Or a wall breaks and suddenly dozens of zombies appear out of nowhere.

 

Also let me add that I absolutely hate the fact we can no longer harvest zombies...but there are harvestable human corpses everywhere. Like , how does that even make any sense? Either keep the element of corpses where they drop infected unedible meat, or remove the human corpses altogether. It just doesn't make any sense.

[Technech]

This game used to be a survival crafting basebuilding game with zombies. Now its a zombie shooter whith some optional crafting and building, and not many zombies.

[Jedo]

This game used to be a survival crafting basebuilding game with zombies. Now its a zombie shooter whith some optional crafting and building, and not many zombies.

Do you survive without basebuilding? Tell me your secret.

[RipClaw]

Do you survive without basebuilding? Tell me your secret.

 

Base building is more than just reinforcing an existing POI.

 

I used an existing water tower for the first few horde nights. I modified it a bit by adding wood bars on which I can walk. Then I removed the lower rungs of the ladder and put spikes and barbed wire around the tower. You can't seriously call that base building.

 

I usually spend weeks building bases. I have to think about a concept first and then collect and process the resources to implement it. That's what I call base building.

[RipClaw]

This game used to be a survival crafting basebuilding game with zombies. Now its a zombie shooter whith some optional crafting and building, and not many zombies.

 

I couldn't have described it better. It seems to be all about guns and killing zombies.

[Jedo]

Base building is more than just reinforcing an existing POI.

 

I used an existing water tower for the first few horde nights. I modified it a bit by adding wood bars on which I can walk. Then I removed the lower rungs of the ladder and put spikes and barbed wire around the tower. You can't seriously call that base building.

 

I usually spend weeks building bases. I have to think about a concept first and then collect and process the resources to implement it. That's what I call base building.

I didn't give a definition of basebuilding. I asked about surviving without it.

 

So, how long does the reinforced POI last you? Are you now unable to build a base that you want? What makes your typical bases from past alphas unnecessary?

[HungryZombie]

Here you go...

 

<append xpath="/quests/quest[@id='tier5_clear']">
<reward type="SkillPoints" value="1" />
</append>

 

Appreciate it but I have no idea what to do with this. I thought it was a Quests.xml edit or something.

 

EDIT: Ok this is a modlet I guess. I should learn now to make these since I edit the XMLs enough. I did get it to work by adding the <reward type> line to the xml file.

 

I tried this earlier with no effect but I must have had a typo because trying it again made it work this time around so thanks!

[RipClaw]

I didn't give a definition of basebuilding. I asked about surviving without it.

 

So, how long does the reinforced POI last you? Are you now unable to build a base that you want? What makes your typical bases from past alphas unnecessary?

 

I just did the day 28 horde and the water tower is still standing. They didn't even scratch it.

 

At the moment I don't have a finished base concept because the demolisher is still a headache for me. If I build a base then it should also withstand a high gamestage horde without taking a lot of damage.

 

Besides I want to do without the use of guns or grenades if possible but I also don't want to use exploits where the zombies always run in a loop.

 

That the base building is unnecessary to survive is shown in this video:

 

 

All that counts in A18 is obviously that you have enough ammo and enough grenades.

[Jedo]

I just did the day 28 horde and the water tower is still standing. They didn't even scratch it.

 

At the moment I don't have a finished base concept because the demolisher is still a headache for me. If I build a base then it should also withstand a high gamestage horde.

Besides I want to do without the use of guns or grenades if possible but I also don't want to use exploits where the zombies always run in a circle.

Will that water tower continue to survive while you plan your base? You did say that it will take you weeks.

 

I mean, you admit here that basebuilding in A18 will be difficult on account of the demolisher (and apparently on account of your self-imposed limitation of no guns or grenades). All of that does not suggest that basebuilding is pointless or optional.

 

That the base building is unnecessary to survive is shown in this video:

 

 

All that counts in A18 is obviously that you have enough ammo and enough grenades.

There always have been ways to cheese the hordes or otherwise go without a base. That doesn't mean that it is unnecessary (at least, not any more so than in past alphas).

 

Furthermore, will that continue to work for that player on Day 70? What if he didn't have the Q6 weapons that he had? (I am on Day 41 and have found two Q6 weapons, neither of which go with my class.)

[Kattla]

Do you survive without basebuilding? Tell me your secret.

 

Mine is simple, don't die....

[RipClaw]

Will that water tower continue to survive while you plan your base? You did say that it will take you weeks.

 

It usually takes weeks but if one tower is broken I can take others.

 

I also have a few hospitals and factories to choose from. Some players have reported that they spent the whole horde night on the roof of such big POIs and no zombie made it to the top.

 

I mean, you admit here that basebuilding in A18 will be difficult on account of the demolisher (and apparently on account of your self-imposed limitation of no guns or grenades). All of that does not suggest that basebuilding is pointless or optional.

 

That I have difficulty finding a concept with these self-imposed restrictions shows that the base itself is no longer important. You can stand on any stable POI and just shoot down and throw grenades. As long as the POI can last enough for one horde, you can simply take the next POI for the next horde.

 

There always have been ways to cheese the hordes or otherwise go without a base. That doesn't mean that it is unnecessary (at least, not any more so than in past alphas).

 

Furthermore, will that continue to work for that player on Day 70? What if he didn't have the Q6 weapons that he had? (I am on Day 41 and have found two Q6 weapons, neither of which go with my class.)

 

He plays on warrior difficulty, so his day 35 horde is my day 70 horde. And thanks to forgetting exlir you can change class at any time. That's exactly what the player did before the horde.

 

You can also use the weapons without points in the attribute. You can't get the maximum damage, but it still works well enough.

 

Oh and there is this: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1191740841951297537

 

No fancy base but a lot of ammo and a lot of grenades.

[Jedo]

It usually takes weeks but if one tower is broken I can take others.

 

I also have a few hospitals and factories to choose from. Some players have reported that they spent the whole horde night on the roof of such big POIs and no zombie made it to the top.

 

That I have difficulty finding a concept with these self-imposed restrictions shows that the base itself is no longer important. You can stand on any stable POI and just shoot down and throw grenades. As long as the POI can last enough for one horde, you can simply take the next POI for the next horde.

These things have been true for multiple alphas. People have used a fortified ranger station as a horde night place since I joined. That is not a problem or change for A18.

 

He plays on warrior difficulty, so his day 35 horde is my day 70 horde. And thanks to forgetting exlir you can change class at any time. That's exactly what the player did before the horde.

Let's not swap apples for oranges. Will it work for that player on his day 70?

 

Oh and there is this: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1191740841951297537

 

No fancy base but a lot of ammo and a lot of grenades.

"No fancy base"? We must have different definitions. He said he nearly got breached (and required a half day of repair), and it isn't done because he needs to add all kinds of traps. I'm not sure how that proves your point.

 

If we go back to the original quote, he said it used to be a survival crafting basebuilding game with zombies. None of that has been removed, and I don't see how it has been made "optional." Can you survive just as a shooter, with or without a reinforced POI? Sure...for a while. (And, again, that has been true before.) Does that negate the rest? No.