Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
ThanVanMon

Another "direction of the game thread" and iam concerned...

Recommended Posts

I am interested to hear how this progresses. I'm long used to dart traps being basically worthless from previous alphas, so I might have to start fiddling with them again once I get back into the game. Cheers!

 

At the moment it is just a 3-block-wide corridor through which the zombies run. It is a similar construction to this base but without the gap:

 

 

I've got 21 traps on the first 3 meters in the corridor. 6 left, 6 right and 9 in the ceiling. All behind arrow slits to protect them from possible explosions. They are triggered by a trip wire and fire for 3 seconds. Electrict fences across the corridor stun the zombies.

 

With a 3m deep trench around the base I make sure that the zombies run into the entrance instead of bashing against the part of the game where I am standing in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am interested to hear how this progresses. I'm long used to dart traps being basically worthless from previous alphas, so I might have to start fiddling with them again once I get back into the game. Cheers!

 

Dart are useless against unless you play on easier difficulties. These guys are bullet sponges to the extreme. No idea how many Darts it would take to bring them down, but to put it in context, unless you are using AP ammo, they can easily take an entire clip to the head from a tier 6 AK with good mods, and still be standing, and I had 4/5 Machine Gunner last time too. This is only on Warrior. You can do the math from there. And remember, just one bullet stray and hitting the chest and they will blow, chain reacting with every other Demolisher in the area - and since they are hard to kill, there will LOTS of others waiting for the chain reaction. When they come one at a time (i.e early, when you first meet them, they are not quite so bad).

 

p.s. Meant to say also, you cannot just leave them alone either, *something* eventually sets them off if there is fighting going on of any kind. My best guess is it is glancing blows from nearby zombies who have started hitting random blocks. But I'm not sure.

Edited by Ghostlight (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dart are useless against unless you play on easier difficulties. These guys are bullet sponges to the extreme. No idea how many Darts it would take to bring them down, but to put it in context, unless you are using AP ammo, they can easily take an entire clip to the head from a tier 6 AK with good mods, and still be standing, and I had 4/5 Machine Gunner last time too. This is only on Warrior. You can do the math from there. And remember, just one bullet stray and hitting the chest and they will blow, chain reacting with every other Demolisher in the area - and since they are hard to kill, there will LOTS of others waiting for the chain reaction. When they come one at a time (i.e early, when you first meet them, they are not quite so bad).

 

p.s. Meant to say also, you cannot just leave them alone either, *something* eventually sets them off if there is fighting going on of any kind. My best guess is it is glancing blows from nearby zombies who have started hitting random blocks. But I'm not sure.

 

Someone made a 5 wide and ~10 deep funnel with dart traps overhead shooting down and a lot of electric wires crossing that space. He then sent in 25 Demos. He fired maybe 3 shots to finish the front Demos that had a chance to actually get through, the rest was killed by wires and darts.

 

At the moment it is just a 3-block-wide corridor through which the zombies run. It is a similar construction to this base but without the gap:

 

 

I've got 21 traps on the first 3 meters in the corridor. 6 left, 6 right and 9 in the ceiling. All behind arrow slits to protect them from possible explosions. They are triggered by a trip wire and fire for 3 seconds. Electrict fences across the corridor stun the zombies.

 

With a 3m deep trench around the base I make sure that the zombies run into the entrance instead of bashing against the part of the game where I am standing in.

 

Does a front block diminish the explosion of blocks behind it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Someone made a 5 wide and ~10 deep funnel with dart traps overhead shooting down and a lot of electric wires crossing that space. He then sent in 25 Demos. He fired maybe 3 shots to finish the front Demos that had a chance to actually get through, the rest was killed by wires and darts.

 

I just stumbled across a base design that seems to be quite fun:

 

 

With grenades and exploding crossbow bolts even a late game horde should be no problem.

 

Does a front block diminish the explosion of blocks behind it?

 

Yes, it does. The dart traps get no damage when a cop or a demolisher explodes. I've tested it several times.

Edited by RipClaw (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please if your experience is a half dozen of them at GS 160, please go away. If instead it's tons of them often many at once, at late gamestage, tell us what you do to handle them?

 

Owch. Little bit rude.

 

Have played through to game stage 200+ a few times now; have not been focussing exclusively on Demolishers yet - mostly exploring Perks and pregen maps, so in first playthrough they blew up my stuff and I just stayed on foot and legged it until felt 'finished'.

 

Second playthrough I went with small kill box with a winding path leading them in on level ground, and shotgun / dart traps shooting from above and behind, and electric fences across the paths, but had similar problems to others - repairing the fences and refuelling the darts traps was tricky - but this had some potential. Perhaps a side path, upper or lower walkway would provide the access needed without getting dug out. Easier in multiplayer if one person can do repair runs. As I played, I Kept extending the winding path; but need to work on lines of sight - but it meant explosions only ever took out a small bit and rarely a full on 'break in'; and with some tweaking could provide a longer term opportunity. Didn't have a pit, didn't have spikes, didn't use half blocks to let dogs and crawlers through ahead.

 

Third playthrough I was working on retreating through POIs and leaving traps behind, which went well, but did mean a lot of POIs got destroyed. It has potential, but think it's a little too much for one player; and would benefit from more team play and depends upon you getting a row of favourable POIs together.

 

Last game I was trying to advance on Kage's core, but I got too ambitious for 1 player and it was just never gonna be 'ready' - and I did not care for the INT build very much so abandoned that - shall watch how Kage gets on to see if it feels worth a revisit.

 

Current playthrough I'm working on a gravity belt.

 

Next up Im either gonna go for the raised curtain wall corridor winding around a core base, with winding pit that leads them back up to the start - or starts, and 'gatehouses' at each 'start' and smaller gatehouses along the path to hold and fall as they progress = but intend to be mostly working with cobblestone on those, understanding it's designed to fall, but in an order, and cheap and quick to fix back up. Solid core is where to fall back to if it gets crazy, and get out plan is a must.

 

Im toying with taking the hotel POI's and trying to make a little fort on each floor which can be retreated upward, take out all but one stairway from each floor, with a quick escape from the roof if needed.

 

But for the record, you CAN use turrets. Don't be silly. Blade traps only set them off if they're hitting their chests or if you use them to kill them from below - just doing damage to legs or heads as they pass is still doable, and you can turn them off to let Demo's through if you need - but Im gonna investigate placing them so they only hit them on the non explody side and see if it's possible.

 

Herding is fine, and if there's a way back out they shouldn't be exploding, the point is to try and shear off specific ones - and it's relatively simple to shear off faster ones - so any reliable hobbling of them or the non-demo's will make separating them easier.

 

Avoiding and running remain viable back ups; and your deliberate choose to disuse particular options - as part of a larger design - makes your claim that nothing works sound very petulant.

 

The charge is that they are OP - and that's been accepted.

The charge is that nothing affordable works - that's not proven.

 

In this thread alone - which isn't even meant to be about Demolishers - there are multiple things which can be investigated which would address, lessen or potentially one day solve it;.

 

They're gonna be toned down or replaced eventually, in the meantime if you hate them that much turn them off in the XML

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Does a front block diminish the explosion of blocks behind it?

 

Either way, that front block will be destroyed by the first explosion unless it's Steel. If it is Steel, it will be destroyed by the 3rd explosion.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Owch. Little bit rude.

 

You're right. Sorry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Avoiding and running remain viable back ups; and your deliberate choose to disuse particular options - as part of a larger design - makes your claim that nothing works sound very petulant.

 

Didn't quite say that. I specifically said nothing works without an unacceptably high bill afterwards. The bill is either in the Ammo you spent engaging the horde, or the repairs to the base you needed afterwards, or both. If you are the type of player or group who doesn't care about the bill because you are happy to spend as long as it takes to replenish or repair, then you'd not have an issue with demolishers. I am not. Since I am the group's miner and they removed my beloved surface boulders, I am not prepared to spend more than 1 to 2 days per in-game week bored out my skull down a hole just to foot the repair/ammo bill.

 

No one is fighting them in the same area where all their precious valuables are stored so it's not like it's game over if your base gets flattened. The point for me is the COST of engaging them. It's far far too high.

 

if you hate them that much turn them off in the XML

 

I hate to mod. It's my last resort. Anyways, new base design is underway and will soon be tested. I am 50-50 about whether it will work or not.

Edited by Ghostlight (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Question: Do zombies turn around when shot from behind by automated turrets or spike throwers ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Why would people who already mod it out need the option? Seems the option would be best for those who can’t/won’t....

 

As soon as we will get platform that does not break all mods with every single minor update by overwriting all XMLs, we will stop borthering you with that.

Actually how do you plan to implement that? Do you to make entities described XMLs extensionable? So mods basically override some values instead of in-edits? Sorry for offtopic. Also why not JSON? It's much more readable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As soon as we will get platform that does not break all mods with every single minor update by overwriting all XMLs, we will stop borthering you with that.

Actually how do you plan to implement that? Do you to make entities described XMLs extensionable? So mods basically override some values instead of in-edits? Sorry for offtopic. Also why not JSON? It's much more readable.

 

Thats what modlets are for.... they do not get overwritten

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As soon as we will get platform that does not break all mods with every single minor update by overwriting all XMLs, we will stop borthering you with that.

Actually how do you plan to implement that? Do you to make entities described XMLs extensionable? So mods basically override some values instead of in-edits? Sorry for offtopic. Also why not JSON? It's much more readable.

 

Xpath. It operates independently of the xmls so does not get overwritten after changes. For A18 I had very minimal edits for my xpath code and it was back to working with the changes made. I've had to make zero changes for any of the 18.x updates.

 

I believe that Harmony is doing the same for DMT modding (formerly SDX) and both Xpath and Harmony look to be on the dev's radar so future compatibility with whatever tools the devs provide looks to be good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Question: Do zombies turn around when shot from behind by automated turrets or spike throwers ?

 

Sometimes. And it appears Demos often do because they take such a pounding they can turn right round before dying. Then it's beep beep beep.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sometimes. And it appears Demos often do because they take such a pounding they can turn right round before dying. Then it's beep beep beep.

 

What gets me sometimes is when they fall and trigger the button from like a zap fence wire at ankle level or some other zed swinging away as they are going up/down. Then they explode before they even stand up. Ah well, I knocked the damage down to 2,000 for concrete blocks, should take 3 of em now to take out most player structures. A bit more forgiving than the 1 and done we were dealing with before.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Xpath. It operates independently of the xmls so does not get overwritten after changes. For A18 I had very minimal edits for my xpath code and it was back to working with the changes made. I've had to make zero changes for any of the 18.x updates.

 

I believe that Harmony is doing the same for DMT modding (formerly SDX) and both Xpath and Harmony look to be on the dev's radar so future compatibility with whatever tools the devs provide looks to be good.

 

Well its workaround for lightweight mod but not for something serious. I really hope devs won't go with Xpath because its really messy. Harmony is fine but still... something more reliable would be better. Some straightforward and reliable api we can use maybe?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im sure this has been posted and sorry I only read a few of the 30+ pages, but JaxTeller has a mod that adds 2x, 3x or 5x the spawn rate of roaming zombies. 5x is pretty nuts with zeds just about everywhere you look. I prefer the 3x. I may swap to 5x later in the game but day 1 was pretty hairy.

 

He also has a 2x the size of roaming hordes. Love that one too!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Im sure this has been posted and sorry I only read a few of the 30+ pages, but JaxTeller has a mod that adds 2x, 3x or 5x the spawn rate of roaming zombies. 5x is pretty nuts with zeds just about everywhere you look. I prefer the 3x. I may swap to 5x later in the game but day 1 was pretty hairy.

 

He also has a 2x the size of roaming hordes. Love that one too!

 

I put my hope to the modders once the basedesign of the game is set....but even them is not as common anymore.

There used to be more active modded versisons in the launcher.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I put my hope to the modders once the basedesign of the game is set....but even them is not as common anymore.

There used to be more active modded versisons in the launcher.

 

We are trying. With the quicker updates comes more delays. Cant have both unfortunately. Ravenhearst would have been done weeks ago but there were several experimentals and 2 stables where we had to update the entire thing.

 

Darkness Falls is currently out and really good, and I know that some of the other big ones are in the planning stages so maybe if its true that 19 is now the focus we get to see those other mods get finished and released.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You all competent modders are a large factor to the game's success I think.

(especially now when the core game is weaker)

The game had a good core and the modders pushed it to it's max.

Now the core is more of a ...rotten one for a bunch of people and modders are slowly making it better one modlet at the time.

 

I just really , really hope the modders will stick with the game until release, I have seen so many good mods for other Early access titles getting sick and tired of the game before it got gold, and abandoning those mods :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Didn't quite say that. I specifically said nothing works without an unacceptably high bill afterwards. The bill is either in the Ammo you spent engaging the horde, or the repairs to the base you needed afterwards, or both. If you are the type of player or group who doesn't care about the bill because you are happy to spend as long as it takes to replenish or repair, then you'd not have an issue with demolishers. I am not. Since I am the group's miner and they removed my beloved surface boulders, I am not prepared to spend more than 1 to 2 days per in-game week bored out my skull down a hole just to foot the repair/ammo bill.

 

No one is fighting them in the same area where all their precious valuables are stored so it's not like it's game over if your base gets flattened. The point for me is the COST of engaging them. It's far far too high.

 

 

 

I hate to mod. It's my last resort. Anyways, new base design is underway and will soon be tested. I am 50-50 about whether it will work or not.

 

Just FYI - watched Kage848's most recent horde night and it would appear there is one viable and fairly safe anti-demolisher build out there - using (I hope I spell this right) Vedui's build as a basis.

 

narrow front with bars, electric fences, dart traps and 2 blade traps. AP ammo for demolishers specifically.

 

Proviso's - he didn't get LOTS of them, but there was nothing to indicate more would have significantly changed the effectiveness - the blade traps and darts were killing demolishers without setting them off consistently; and AP rounds killed em quick.

 

It's not perfect, and it's not gamestage 200 yet (177 I think) - but it looks like a solid viable and not ridiculously expensive beginning that may be worth experimenting with.

 

:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
the blade traps and darts were killing demolishers without setting them off consistently

 

How were the Blade Traps arranged? Everything I've tried sets them off immediately.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How were the Blade Traps arranged? Everything I've tried sets them off immediately.

 

Go check out the video - ramp leading up, electric fences across beneath them - looks like they CAN set them off, but not consistently; and can kill them with just the blades and darts - but he's using AP M60 to kill em with a few rounds when they are triggered.

 

Like I say, it ain't perfect, but it looks like a promising start, and you can see him build it in the preceeding 2 videos.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We are trying. With the quicker updates comes more delays. Cant have both unfortunately. Ravenhearst would have been done weeks ago but there were several experimentals and 2 stables where we had to update the entire thing.

 

Darkness Falls is currently out and really good, and I know that some of the other big ones are in the planning stages so maybe if its true that 19 is now the focus we get to see those other mods get finished and released.

 

 

Much appreciated Jax! and ty to all you modders that puts energy to this. It sure takes time.

Yea it has to settle a bit first before there is a point modding it all:).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Base building isn't pointless, it's just much harder to make something which can kill the later hordes without massive player involvement. In 16 it was far to easy to be invincible in week 1 or 2; the AI in 17 rendered the process painful. 18 has done it's primary job - make the horde dangerous again; and get rid of passive horde killing bases. They'll probably reel it back a BIT - but so far looks like people are coping and still building big effective bases; just not in week 1 or 2.

 

Agree with you on this. From what base strats I've seen out there so far (and my own experiences) electric fencing and dart traps seems to be the focal points especially against demolishers. I dont consider loop bases a sustainable strat as it will most likely be addressed in a future AI update.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Agree with you on this. From what base strats I've seen out there so far (and my own experiences) electric fencing and dart traps seems to be the focal points especially against demolishers. I dont consider loop bases a sustainable strat as it will most likely be addressed in a future AI update.

 

I use dart traps and electric fences and it works quite well for the moment but the consumption of iron is enormous. A gamestage 300 horde would probably be too much for my current base. I need to think about something else. Probably I will change the strategy to the use of grenades and pipe bombs.

 

I wish I could somehow separate the demolishers from the rest of the horde. Then I could use dart traps for the demolishers and shotgun turrets and blade traps for the rest of the horde.

Edited by RipClaw (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I use dart traps and electric fences and it works quite well for the moment but the consumption of iron is enormous. A gamestage 300 horde would probably be too much for my current base. I need to think about something else. Probably I will change the strategy to the use of grenades and pipe bombs.

 

I wish I could somehow separate the demolishers from the rest of the horde. Then I could use dart traps for the demolishers and shotgun turrets and blade traps for the rest of the horde.

 

The blade traps and electric fences seem sufficient to kill everything except the demolishers on their own; so you can turn the dart traps off and on as and when you need them. Shotgun turrets could be used for normal zeds as well and turned off if and when the Demolishers arrive. Neither use much Iron.

 

Kage's current build seems to be great for saving ammo, but at the cost of using a lot of Iron - but you could improve on it by making more use of auto turrets and a sledgehammer (He's fists, so couldn't really contribute much melee - but almost any other melee weapon might have reached, and the sledge and spear definitely would have).

 

He also didn't use any spikes or barbed wire at all - but if you can work them in without making the zed's path change then that'd help a lot too.

 

I'm still trying out a few other builds in the meantime - but that base looks fairly solid for <gamestage 200 - even if it only serves to save you time and resources to get ready for later hordes; it's not exactly cheap, but it cost a fraction of his 'fallback' base behind it; in terms of concrete and iron/steel use for the actual building.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...