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Alpha 18 feedback and balancing thread

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A lot of friends of mine from the 7 Days to Die community raised concerns about the new font introduced with A18.3 Experimental release including myself.

 

I get that you had to either change the font to a different one or update the old one to support more languages and characters, but the new font makes the game look less attractive, at least in my opinion and from the people I know and have played the game for thousands of hours.

 

Here's a comparison how it looked before and how it looks now:

 

MF6q9o3.png

 

I can live with the letter changes, but the new look of the numbers don't feel right to me, they really don't (too bubbly and roundish), they way they look on the hud makes the game feel a lot more early accessy and unprofessional than before unless it was intentional to make it look more basic or cartoony.

 

If you don't plan to make the font look better in vanilla game, then I would love to get an answer to a question: are we allowed to mod back in the old font in mods using the pre-A18.3 font from A18.2 and include the old font file or modify the new font to have English letters and numbers to look like in the old font and have it included the mods custom asset bundle?

Edited by Subquake (see edit history)

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is it a bug during horde night if you die the zombies stop coming after your base?

 

It`s a camel.

 

P.S. After death in horde night you are safe if not detected.

 

 

Happy Christmas.

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I've started a Perception/Agility playthrough -- Perception because I never did marksman rifle/penetrator perk on my first perception build -- and though I haven't played my first horde night yet, I have to add my voice to the people who have complained about this here before:

 

Knives make zombies rage way more often than clubs, baseball bats, sledgehammers, spears or the stun baton. Now, granted, I start with a power attack when using knives, and I don't with spears. With clubs and bats and sledgehammers, a power attack often drops zombies to the ground, so I wouldn't even know if they raged. With knives, you get to fist range with the zombie, you do a very slow attack, and the zombie rages. It got to the point it catches me by surprise when they don't.

 

Even normal attacks seem to rage them more often, but I've stopped doing those because they are too ineffective. They are good once you got some bleeding going, but only if the zombie did not rage, except zombies will rage too often and catch you at too close a range.

 

The knife isn't as bad as it looked to me at first, except for the raging. It is really at a major disadvantage when it comes to rage compared to other weapons, whatever may be the reason. Say what you want about what the chances of raging are with knives, it's just not what I'm seeing.

 

That said, I'm playing at Insane difficulty. If difficulty increases chance of raging, then that would account for it. And, to be clear, it's not raging because I have to keep hitting them over and over at this difficulty, it's rage on first hit.

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is it a bug during horde night if you die the zombies stop coming after your base?

 

Zombies come after you, not your base. It is not a bug. Dying gives you blood moon targeting immunity until a zombie sees (but not for 30 secs after respawn) you or you damage an animal or zombie.

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A lot of friends of mine from the 7 Days to Die community raised concerns about the new font introduced with A18.3 Experimental release including myself.

 

I get that you had to either change the font to a different one or update the old one to support more languages and characters, but the new font makes the game look less attractive, at least in my opinion and from the people I know and have played the game for thousands of hours.

 

Here's a comparison how it looked before and how it looks now:

 

MF6q9o3.png

 

I can live with the letter changes, but the new look of the numbers don't feel right to me, they really don't (too bubbly and roundish), they way they look on the hud makes the game feel a lot more early accessy and unprofessional than before unless it was intentional to make it look more basic or cartoony.

 

If you don't plan to make the font look better in vanilla game, then I would love to get an answer to a question: are we allowed to mod back in the old font in mods using the pre-A18.3 font from A18.2 and include the old font file or modify the new font to have English letters and numbers to look like in the old font and have it included the mods custom asset bundle?

 

Could try doing it like other games do: have the old font for English and have the other one for all the other languages.

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That said, I'm playing at Insane difficulty. If difficulty increases chance of raging, then that would account for it. And, to be clear, it's not raging because I have to keep hitting them over and over at this difficulty, it's rage on first hit.

 

Difficulty does increase rage percent. Default is 15%, but on insane you are at 50%.

 

Fast low damage weapons are at a disadvantage, since each hit has the same rage chance and you do more hits with those. I have thought it would be better to scale the percent with damage. Added to my todo list.

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I've started a Perception/Agility playthrough -- Perception because I never did marksman rifle/penetrator perk on my first perception build -- and though I haven't played my first horde night yet, I have to add my voice to the people who have complained about this here before:

 

Knives make zombies rage way more often than clubs, baseball bats, sledgehammers, spears or the stun baton. Now, granted, I start with a power attack when using knives, and I don't with spears. With clubs and bats and sledgehammers, a power attack often drops zombies to the ground, so I wouldn't even know if they raged. With knives, you get to fist range with the zombie, you do a very slow attack, and the zombie rages. It got to the point it catches me by surprise when they don't.

 

Even normal attacks seem to rage them more often, but I've stopped doing those because they are too ineffective. They are good once you got some bleeding going, but only if the zombie did not rage, except zombies will rage too often and catch you at too close a range.

 

The knife isn't as bad as it looked to me at first, except for the raging. It is really at a major disadvantage when it comes to rage compared to other weapons, whatever may be the reason. Say what you want about what the chances of raging are with knives, it's just not what I'm seeing.

 

That said, I'm playing at Insane difficulty. If difficulty increases chance of raging, then that would account for it. And, to be clear, it's not raging because I have to keep hitting them over and over at this difficulty, it's rage on first hit.

 

Rage seems to have an x% chance per hit or time the zombie takes damage. Since knives cause bleed a lot, attack faster, you get way way more hits in. Since the rage was added I really started to favor the sledgehammer even more, before I would use a knife as it is efficient (since also used for harvesting corpses). The sledge just has so much advantage in the current system, since it will knock them down or kill em in just 1 blow.

 

I would suggest that rage chance should factor in not just taking damage, but also the amount the hit does and the damage dealt recently. So the recent damage taken could increase the chance for a hit to rage to increase, while the actual damage the hit does determines the base chance. Then big hits like a slegde would likely always cause rage (which should trigger at the time the zombie gets up if he still lives), but knife hits may not unless you have been stabbing em often or he bled a lot.

 

This way these both extremes would see rage happen more equally as it is not based on hits per second but on damage per second.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Difficulty does increase rage percent. Default is 15%, but on insane you are at 50%.

 

Fast low damage weapons are at a disadvantage, since each hit has the same rage chance and you do more hits with those. I have thought it would be better to scale the percent with damage. Added to my todo list.

 

Beat me to it :)

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I don't think it really needs to be overly complicated.

Just base it off of the percentage of the zombies overall health.

@60% of the zombies health remaining, it rolls at a 10% chance to rage. (1 in 10)

@40% it rolls at 20% chance to rage. (1 in 5)

@20% it rolls at 25% chance to rage. (1 in 4)

3 shots to trigger a rage episode (or add more times it can roll against).

Still random in nature, but no one weapon over the other can trigger it more often or less.

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I don't think it really needs to be overly complicated.

Just base it off of the percentage of the zombies overall health.

@60% of the zombies health remaining, it rolls at a 10% chance to rage. (1 in 10)

@40% it rolls at 20% chance to rage. (1 in 5)

@20% it rolls at 25% chance to rage. (1 in 4)

3 shots to trigger a rage episode (or add more times it can roll against).

Still random in nature, but no one weapon over the other can trigger it more often or less.

 

That is also a good way to solve it. I do hope that when it is changed we get some form of XML control over it, setting certain zombies to rage more often than others or turning it off for some.

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Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to my favorite purveyors of fun with the undead.

 

Yay for balancing irl too.

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Zombies come after you, not your base. It is not a bug. Dying gives you blood moon targeting immunity until a zombie sees (but not for 30 secs after respawn) you or you damage an animal or zombie.

 

the reason i ask its a bug is that all the zombies just have a heart attack and i don't see one until the next day.

 

just asking thxs though

 

 

 

also merry Xmas

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

It`s a camel.

 

 

 

.

 

 

Where!!!!

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That is also a good way to solve it. I do hope that when it is changed we get some form of XML control over it, setting certain zombies to rage more often than others or turning it off for some.

 

Just my opinion: Regarding the 'Rage' mechanic.

Hard coding it, as part of the AI Task/Targeting wasn't needed in any way.

The current "Effect/Triggering" system is more than capable of doing what its already doing, in spades, with more avenues, more control, and so on. I just don't understand why the "AI" system needs to be handling that, like it does.

Edited by Tin (see edit history)

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I know I just posted about this, but this thing is so ridiculous I had to come back to it.

 

When you put points into Javelin Master, you get an increased range on power attacks, keeping you safer.

 

When you put points into Pummel Pete, you get a chance to knock down zombies on power attacks, keeping you safer.

 

When you put points into Skull Crusher, you get a chance to knock down zombies on normal attacks, keeping you safer.

 

When you put points into Deep Cuts, you get a chance to inflict bleeding damage, which will make zombies rage and super rage, increasing the danger to you.

 

This is not balanced.

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I know I just posted about this, but this thing is so ridiculous I had to come back to it.

 

When you put points into Javelin Master, you get an increased range on power attacks, keeping you safer.

 

When you put points into Pummel Pete, you get a chance to knock down zombies on power attacks, keeping you safer.

 

When you put points into Skull Crusher, you get a chance to knock down zombies on normal attacks, keeping you safer.

 

When you put points into Deep Cuts, you get a chance to inflict bleeding damage, which will make zombies rage and super rage, increasing the danger to you.

 

This is not balanced.

 

Yeah i agree. maybe zombies that have bleed can be slowed down due to blood lost? idk

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Scrapping the wiring tool yields 135 iron. This is a bit too much, isn't it??? Especially compared to scrapping an cooking pot which yields only 18 iron.

And, you can loot a school bus from an insane far range, about 7-8m away!

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A lot of friends of mine from the 7 Days to Die community raised concerns about the new font introduced with A18.3 Experimental release including myself.

 

I get that you had to either change the font to a different one or update the old one to support more languages and characters, but the new font makes the game look less attractive, at least in my opinion and from the people I know and have played the game for thousands of hours.

 

Here's a comparison how it looked before and how it looks now:

 

MF6q9o3.png

 

I can live with the letter changes, but the new look of the numbers don't feel right to me, they really don't (too bubbly and roundish), they way they look on the hud makes the game feel a lot more early accessy and unprofessional than before unless it was intentional to make it look more basic or cartoony.

 

If you don't plan to make the font look better in vanilla game, then I would love to get an answer to a question: are we allowed to mod back in the old font in mods using the pre-A18.3 font from A18.2 and include the old font file or modify the new font to have English letters and numbers to look like in the old font and have it included the mods custom asset bundle?

 

They look ok to me. That is readable and legible

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Just my opinion: Regarding the 'Rage' mechanic.

Hard coding it, as part of the AI Task/Targeting wasn't needed in any way.

The current "Effect/Triggering" system is more than capable of doing what its already doing, in spades, with more avenues, more control, and so on. I just don't understand why the "AI" system needs to be handling that, like it does.

 

It wasn't needed, but it was actually easier to implement and runs faster. The whole effect/trigger/buffs systems is not fast and is not something I care to use unless I have a good reason. Plenty of overhead there and I like to make code run as fast as it can. You controlling it was not a goal for me.

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It wasn't needed, but it was actually easier to implement and runs faster. The whole effect/trigger/buffs systems is not fast and is not something I care to use unless I have a good reason. Plenty of overhead there and I like to make code run as fast as it can. You controlling it was not a goal for me.

 

Yeah, you made that perfectly clear. Merry Christmas either way guy.

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It wasn't needed, but it was actually easier to implement and runs faster. The whole effect/trigger/buffs systems is not fast and is not something I care to use unless I have a good reason. Plenty of overhead there and I like to make code run as fast as it can. You controlling it was not a goal for me.

 

Any chance of xml dictated rage altering? The more things we can ♥♥♥♥ with and break means more use cases and problem definitions for the badass QA team. Keep up the awesome work, rockstar. :)

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Could try doing it like other games do: have the old font for English and have the other one for all the other languages.

 

Unnecessary programming. Personally, I think the new font is more readable.

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Unnecessary programming. Personally, I think the new font is more readable.

A lot of things are manufactured with unnecessary stuff and it's done purely to differentiate one product from another. Vehicles, houses, websites, food, you name it, everything has that. Yes, the new font might be more readable for some, but it's so basic, it feels like a generic font while the old one felt unique to the game with the boxy long rectangular shapes.

 

Maybe it's just me, because I've been modding the game for more than 4 years and playing it for more than 5 years and I have just gotten used to the old font, especially how the numbers look. The new one to me looks just bleh (important note - talking about how it looks not about readability and practicality, purely about aesthetics)

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Yeah i agree. maybe zombies that have bleed can be slowed down due to blood lost? idk

 

That mechanic is already in the game, but it is almost imperceptible.

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