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Alpha 18 feedback and balancing thread

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Would it be possible for distant lights to have a dumbed down cast with less/no shadow calculations and less-smooth steps in light amount? I was noticing in the last couple of worlds that I played with others that I'd get within maybe a half dozen blocks of a street lamp or lantern before it started up its area glow at all. That was before I discovered my settings were markedly lower than the overall "ultra" should have had them set to...haven't gone to study light levels recently to see how that changed, if any, now that the settings are up where they should be.

 

No shadows would make it bleed all over. You would get to a certain distance and it would poke through blocks. If I recall correctly, it already fades out shadows, then turns them off at distance, but has to aggressively clamp range to stop the bleed.

 

Less smooth is just the CPU update rate, which is not where the bottleneck is.

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If they made electricity a gate for cement it would just drive people to exclusively scavenge for it

 

Yah, but concrete mix is basically nowhere to be found, it's about as hard to find as hoes used to be. Not that that's a bad thing. I'm asking to seriously nerf early-to-midgame defensive construction here, I know. Maybe make concrete mix a 30s handcraft but vastly quicker in the power-required mixer.

 

I'm okay with the XP weirdness, it is weird, though, place a wood frame and beat on it a while to get XP oodles from your concrete builds‚ making those slow-as-molasses wet concrete blocks in the mixer is a complete waste. I don't have a better idea for how to avoid XP spamming (other than making 0XP a vanilla opiton), and the cobblestone for starter blocks is basically free so, was just asking is all.

 

I'm _in_ the Craft Faction, I've been playing as close to traderless as I can manage, that's Damn Little Trading for those keeping score. I think I've been twice, playing a SP jack-of-all-trades build and having a blast. Made Q5 tools, Q4 iron club and a bicycle, looted a Q4 wooden bow and a Q2 pistol, game stage is about to hit 100 (so, I'm like 2.5% of the way through the game) and I feel like I'm rocking.

 

Oh: one more thing, could you make putting on/switching glasses work from the toolbar, maybe even with just lclick? The nerdy-lucky toggle is a minor-irritant chore, plus there's the whole Horatio Caine thing, I want it to feel like a smooth move.

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If they made electricity a gate for cement it would just drive people to exclusively scavenge for it and the Craft Faction might start accusing the game of being a "looter shooter".

 

 

I'm of the Craft Faction and I really do think concrete should be harder to get. Day 21 and I have a small POI completely enclosed inside a concrete wall? That does seem a little excessive.

 

I used to use wood to sketch out early base walls, now I use flagstone. I used to use a bow as an early game weapon, now I use a pistol. I used to use a stone axe as an early game tool, now I just find a couple of main loot boxes at the end of a dungeon POI and find semi-decent metal tools. This whole accelerated advancement problem just gets exponentially worse if you have a trader nearby.

 

It does seem as though what used to be mid and late game stuff has now become early game stuff. Beef up the ability to punch rocks and trees to somewhere near a low level stone axe and you can pretty much remove the neolithic tech level entirely.

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I've died six times across two games now. This is the best death penalty since I started playing 7d2d, in a15. It punishes you enough that you don't want to die, but not so much you get mad at the punishment.

 

Unrelated, can we get passthrough switches? Like the passthrough in triggers? Since we have no electricity blocks that takes two inputs, passthrough switches would be an easy way of doing things like having a door open using a switch on either side.

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Ok so after replaying the game when my PC was fixed. i went out raiding for loot in a house and i got a lot of nice loot from a Reinforced chest. on day two.

 

so i think that there should be Chest tiers like this.

 

Reinforced Wooden chest: found in houses and civilian areas: loot , low end weapons , armor and resources. stuff like (max level of item is 3) stuff like Stone weapons , scrap or cloth , some arrows or rarely bullets , wooden bows and primitive bows. Super Rare a pistol or iron tier weapon. and resources like wood , duct tape , parts and more. Guards: normal zeds. always Unlocked

 

Scrap Chest: found in Bigger homes , Post Apoc buildings , stores and more: loot: ok tier items weapons , armor and resources. (max level items is 4)

items: like Leather armor , scrap and cloth. iron tier weapons and tools , weapons like knives , blunderbuss and crossbows. super rare a Hunting rifle or double barrel . resources like iron , parts and more. Guards: feral zombies with more HP. sometimes Unlocked

 

Reinforced iron chest (base one) has the same loot but always locked and drops better stuff. but guards are Much stronger zombies

found in more higher tier places

 

the the Reinforced box: which only spawns in large POIS or HARD ones. and guarded by Fearls and radioactives!

 

just a thought....

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I'm of the Craft Faction and I really do think concrete should be harder to get. Day 21 and I have a small POI completely enclosed inside a concrete wall? That does seem a little excessive.

 

I used to use wood to sketch out early base walls, now I use flagstone. I used to use a bow as an early game weapon, now I use a pistol. I used to use a stone axe as an early game tool, now I just find a couple of main loot boxes at the end of a dungeon POI and find semi-decent metal tools. This whole accelerated advancement problem just gets exponentially worse if you have a trader nearby.

 

It does seem as though what used to be mid and late game stuff has now become early game stuff. Beef up the ability to punch rocks and trees to somewhere near a low level stone axe and you can pretty much remove the neolithic tech level entirely.

 

I kinda agree with a lot of this. I wish wooden walls were stage 1. Wooden walls are useless and flagstone is easy to build. Iron walls seem useless to.

 

I used to use bows the first few horde nights. Now it’s guns.

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I kinda agree with a lot of this. I wish wooden walls were stage 1. Wooden walls are useless and flagstone is easy to build. Iron walls seem useless to.

 

I used to use bows the first few horde nights. Now it’s guns.

 

 

yeah i think they need to tone down the base loot. cuz on day one i was Set in terms of armor i had half iron armor on day 1

 

 

same with weapons i got a level 3 stun baton too

 

 

and the fact is if you raid a house and go the the chest it the same as a army camp that's why i went on a ramble about tiers of chest. so the chest are not the same when you raid a Advance army base or if you raid some old house. and weapons early game should be a blessing but now its like if there everywhere. hell i don't even craft any weapons due to me find them so much.

 

so the rate of loot should be lowered.

 

 

and about the buildings wood should be the base starter. in fact i believe that it should be a frame for building.

and the jump from food and stone is too fast. you go from 200 wood , 400 frag stone, to 1000 brick....

 

that's too quick. (while personally i like scrap Iron walls due to the look and cheapness IMO) but it should be a slow progression to get to steel. if i made could change it . it would go. (Wood 250 , wood+ 400 , flagstone 500 , brick 750hp , Reinforced brick 1000 (with scrap) , Scrap 1750 , Scrap+: 2200 , Iron 3000 , iron+ 3750 , Concret

5000, reinforced Concrete 6000 , Steel 7500 , Harden steel 10,000)

 

and with zombies some could have "bosses" to the higher . like a zombie that looks like the demolisher but in normal clothes.

 

perks im ok with but i think to unlock stuff it's too soon. say you unlock brawer level 1 you instantly unlock brass knuckles, it should be at least 2 levels in to unlock a item.

 

ammo is also to common

 

armor is ok.

 

Food and water is ok but i think it should be a bit more harsh, only for easy to cook foods, cuz theres no reason to make meat stew over veggy stew . maybe each special food can give a different effect, like extra Hp , more damage resistance, more speed. etc same with drinks.

 

repair kits are also a bit to cheap. at least oil or something to spice it up.

 

Blood moons should be never ending hoards until Sun rise.

 

more conscience for dying like , lowing stats and perks until you gain *said EX amount*

 

mines should be much stronger due to lack of use, like grenade's

 

animals should spawn in almost the same areas , with some exceptions like deers in deserts. but animals like mountain lions , coyotes , bears , wolves and boars should spawn in nearly the same areas like forest , wasteland , crispy forest , snow and desert.

 

Special weapon mods for guns like hunting rifle Strip clips and long barrels for double barrels.

 

and some weapons need some buffs like knuckle wraps. it's better to use your fist. Wooden clubs, should just be a Stone club and have better damage.

 

 

Junker/ junk turrets should be much more rare. mostly due to them being a post war weapon.

 

 

sorry about the rant wanted to get it off my chest.

Edited by Adam the Waster (see edit history)

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Further experience with PVP mode in A18:

 

-Stunning with a maxed out sledgehammer strength and perk and 3 mods -> enemy player gets stunned,twice, still shoots. I ask how it happens, he says he uses maxed pain tolerance. The game shows the stunned animation but does not stun the player. This is a very frustrating bug that needs to be fixed.

-Dynamite is broken in PVP. I was playing in a server with modded dynamite damage (from 2000 to 500 block damage) and they still ruined the entrance of the base. At least the rocket is expensive and requires numerous rockets dealing ~300 damage. Explosion damage needs to deal 1/10 against player blocks in pvp.

-Player devour all cars in the game which translates to engines and batteries. Without engines there are no cement mixers, nothing electrical works, no mechanical parts to build blade traps and other contraptions.

-Since pvp is mostly underground gaming players require lighting. Since there is no lighting one has to use the top of his base or a secret tunnel to light the farm plots. I'd personally like to see a lighting mechanism similar to minecraft which will provide adequate lighting to farm underground. That is not necessary on single player and pve as much as in pvp games.

 

That's about it. Fix those issues to make pvp experience slightly more playable than it is now.

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Further experience with PVP mode in A18:

 

-Player devour all cars in the game which translates to engines and batteries. Without engines there are no cement mixers, nothing electrical works, no mechanical parts to build blade traps and other contraptions.

-Since pvp is mostly underground gaming players require lighting. Since there is no lighting one has to use the top of his base or a secret tunnel to light the farm plots. I'd personally like to see a lighting mechanism similar to minecraft which will provide adequate lighting to farm underground. That is not necessary on single player and pve as much as in pvp games.

 

I'll say it before Madmole has to, again. Do a few POI quests to reset the POI and thus get more cars.

 

Regarding PVP farming, a few strategically placed trees ought to obscure your surface farm plots from the world without depriving them of light. You could also hide them in low-value POI's that are likely to be skipped by looters, where the plants have sunlight access but are shielded from view from the side. Not having them all in one large plantation would help, too. Put a few under each tree. I wouldn't mind seeing artificial light be enough for farm plots (Empyrion's grow lights, for example) but the challenge of doing it on the surface through camouflage seems like it would be more interesting.

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Been playing A18 for like 2 months and thought I'd give my feedback. Even though this post will probably be too long and loaded with suggestions/wishes, keep in mind that for the most part I'm happy with how things are now. Tl;dr: I like A18, its an improvement over older alphas, I like the direction things are going, I have nitpicks but my only real beef is that I wish there were more wandering/patrolling zeds.

 

Skills/Progression

 

Improved over A17 IMO - it feels like you have multiple viable choices, fewer mandatory choices, and that every point counts. Having a ♥♥♥♥ton of lootable/purchasable recipes as an alternate progression path is also good, it adds some RNG to spice up games but you generally aren't gated behind it. That being said, some of the perks feel way too niche, and others are mostly or totally made obsolete when the player finds the relevant lootable recipes. In 18.1 and 18.2 TFP added some bonuses to recipe-only perks (crafting speed/efficiency/etc) - this is the right idea and should be expanded on. Off the top of my head:

 

  • The Infiltrator could use more value in PvE. Maybe damage bonuses against doors and boarded windows?
  • Animal Tracker and The Huntsman could maybe be merged, don't know whether it should go under Perception or Fortitude though.
  • Pack Mule has no mid/late game value. Maybe have it give maximum stack size bonuses, or an extra belt slot at perk level 4 and 5?
  • Master Chef has little mid/late game value, as default cooking speed isn't really a constraint. IMO this perk should also be like Physician, but for food: give bonuses to food values (and less chance of food poisoning) and use it to feed other players in co-op!
  • Grease Monkey has little mid-late game value, crafting speed really isn't a concern because vehicles are a one-and-done craft job. Maybe have some perk levels grant +1 to max speed of crafted motorized vehicles?
  • TFP will probably have the stats on this, but I'm guessing the Fortitude perks (other than Machine Gunner of course) are probably underused. Maybe a merge of 2 perks or some buffs/changes are in order.
  • The only skill gate that I'm unsure about is putting the Crucible recipe at Level 5 Advanced Engineering. Yes, steel is powerful and there are other places to get a Crucible, but requiring 9 INT+Glasses to eliminate the RNG factor is a bit much for a widely used crafting material IMO.

Crafting/Building

 

The addition of helper blocks (ie. being able to change the shape before deploying) is an absolute game-changer and sooo good for base builders. I just wish there were more shape options that don't require Creative mode, and its a bit weird that different shapes are available for different building materials. I know TFP has plans for reworking or removing the Table Saw, but if you're going to keep it, use it to create other helper blocks (Advanced Wood Block?) instead of lots of different ones.

 

In terms of material value vs zombies, Flagstone does feel a bit too good... its ease of crafting on Day 1 makes Wood obsolete, and its trivial to upgrade to Cobblestone, which makes Brick obsolete - I bet most players don't even know or care how to make Brick blocks at this point. But that's a tricky thing to balance.

 

Oh, one other nitpick - the Paint Brush's paint roller mode seems to splash a lot of things that aren't intended, it would be nice if it only splashed adjacent blockfaces and not stuff way in the background.

 

World/POIs

 

A17 really raised the bar in how good the world and POIs look, and I'm glad A18 continued the updates in this department. We're now at the point where most pre-A17 POIs look butt-ugly in comparison and stand out in a bad way, so keep up the good work. A few POI archetypes seem missing from the small town setting though - strip malls, small apartment buildings (~3 floors), warehouses, and Wal-Mart-esque big box stores. The latter could make a good T4 or T5 quest location. This is just nitpicking of course.

 

Not going to pass judgement on the RWG itself since everyone likes different things, there are performance considerations, and its always a work in progress.

 

Combat/Zombies

 

Melee feels better in A18 but I can't shake the feeling that swinging weapons still feels too finicky, especially when you're not hosting/playing locally. The weapon swing arcs and graze hits just feel too limited to make a difference, and the best example of this happens when fighting Vultures, where players often miss or graze between the wings and body. The spear feels good because the required precision matches the animation and is a good trade-off for the weapon range, but the other weapons basically feel like short range spears with more damage.

 

Guns feel good, but then again I like the arcadey style and super-fast weapon swaps. That being said, the M60 is too damn good. Makes you feel and play like Rambo - no careful tactics, no fear of zombies, just walk around, hold down the trigger and kill everything. Its only real downside (reload speed) isn't enough of a deterrent and the Bandolier minimizes it anyway.

 

And now for probably the most negative part of this post - the Zombies. The Zeds themselves are fine (although more variety in skins/models/types is always a good addition), but I feel like reducing the amount of wandering/active zombies in the world was a bad move. Whether it was done for performance reasons or gameplay reasons (ie. to not overwhelm players in the early game or give too much XP), the end result is that the world feels more empty and less dangerous. Sleepers are a good thing both in gameplay and theme, but there aren't enough non-sleepers. That being said, I don't think wandering zombies should be more numerous everywhere - just in built-up areas (towns and cities). Rural bases shouldn't have to deal with frequent zombie attacks unless they're generating lots of heat. This could be tied to gamestage and/or difficulty as well, but the bottom line is: more zombies please!

 

7D2D's tagline is "the survival horde crafting game", and I hope the necessary optimizations and tweaks can keep the word "horde" in there.

Edited by ginc (see edit history)

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I suspect it's been mentioned, but I have a gripe that is summed up in three words:

 

Baseball Bat Parts.

 

What are those, splinters? Do we really think Neegan needed anything more than a baseball bat and some barbed wire to upgrade his bat?

 

The same goes for a lot of other things. Guns? I get it, you can't make the complex machinery that a modern firearm needs.

 

Fiberglass composites for Bows and Crossbows? Same thing, I get it.

 

But come on guys. Parts for every damn thing that's not a caveman implement... parts you can't make yourself? Surely some bows and crossbows, and some metal armors, can be made without?

 

How did the people in 7D2D actually make it out of the dark ages, since there weren't any places to scavenge for parts???

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I suspect it's been mentioned, but I have a gripe that is summed up in three words:

 

Baseball Bat Parts.

 

What are those, splinters? Do we really think Neegan needed anything more than a baseball bat and some barbed wire to upgrade his bat?

 

The same goes for a lot of other things. Guns? I get it, you can't make the complex machinery that a modern firearm needs.

 

Fiberglass composites for Bows and Crossbows? Same thing, I get it.

 

But come on guys. Parts for every damn thing that's not a caveman implement... parts you can't make yourself? Surely some bows and crossbows, and some metal armors, can be made without?

 

Ah, yes, naturally. In the game already. Wooden bows, scrap metal armors, leather armors, some melee weapons.

 

The baseball bat is actually a tongue-in-cheek reference to Neegans weapon I assume. Lots of people don't seem to get the joke though. If TFP needs to remove the humor because of too much irritation they probably could name the best version (i.e. tier 3) of the club rotating-blade club instead. Or call it steel club, which would be the pedestrian alternative.

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)

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Ah, yes, naturally. In the game already. Wooden bows, scrap metal armors, leather armors, some melee weapons.

 

The baseball bat is actually a tongue-in-cheek reference to Neegans weapon I assume. Lots of people don't seem to get the joke though. If TFP needs to remove the humor because of too much irritation they probably could name the best version (i.e. tier 3) of the club rotating-blade club instead. Or call it steel club, which would be the pedestrian alternative.

 

i didnt even know there was a joke about the bat

 

 

ik about the gun in the toilet and the sexual tyrannosaurus but that all i know lol

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Ah, yes, naturally. In the game already. Wooden bows, scrap metal armors, leather armors, some melee weapons.

 

The baseball bat is actually a tongue-in-cheek reference to Neegans weapon I assume. Lots of people don't seem to get the joke though. If TFP needs to remove the humor because of too much irritation they probably could name the best version (i.e. tier 3) of the club rotating-blade club instead. Or call it steel club, which would be the pedestrian alternative.

 

Im a pretty die hard fan of the Walking Dead, both comic and show. What is this "tongue in cheek reference" that Pimps are referring to when it comes to baseball bat parts and Negan?

 

Im curious.

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i didnt even know there was a joke about the bat

 

 

ik about the gun in the toilet and the sexual tyrannosaurus but that all i know lol

 

Nearly all store names are jokes.

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Im a pretty die hard fan of the Walking Dead, both comic and show. What is this "tongue in cheek reference" that Pimps are referring to when it comes to baseball bat parts and Negan?

 

Im curious.

 

The parts are because the weapon is tier3. The best club in the game is a baseball bat because Neegan made it "famous" as a weapon. If ever TFP put swords into the game I bet the tier3 sword would be a Katana :cocksure:.

 

But that is just a guess by me, ask TFP for the truth, the whole truth.

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The parts are because the weapon is tier3. The best club in the game is a baseball bat because Neegan made it "famous" as a weapon. If ever TFP put swords into the game I bet the tier3 sword would be a Katana :cocksure:.

 

But that is just a guess by me, ask TFP for the truth, the whole truth.

 

i would think of something like this

 

Untitled.jpg.1e82e51da8b12ebf446706b3b1b52636.jpg

 

(credit to TFP for drawing it dat look good)

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Ah, yes, naturally. In the game already. Wooden bows, scrap metal armors, leather armors, some melee weapons.

 

The baseball bat is actually a tongue-in-cheek reference to Neegans weapon I assume. Lots of people don't seem to get the joke though. If TFP needs to remove the humor because of too much irritation they probably could name the best version (i.e. tier 3) of the club rotating-blade club instead. Or call it steel club, which would be the pedestrian alternative.

 

Point missed I’m afraid. Wooden Bow. Tier 2 bow. Simple recurve. 6 bow parts required.

 

Or is this another joke I missed?

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Point missed I’m afraid. Wooden Bow. Tier 2 bow. Simple recurve. 6 bow parts required.

 

Or is this another joke I missed?

 

My mistake, I meant simple bow (tier1), naturally

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I think crafting is in a bad place right now overall, especially for higher-tier gear. In my playthroughs (mostly multiplayer, default loot settings) it's been consistently faster and easier to find or buy tools and weapons of a high quality than it has been to craft them. Between crafting schematics being spread across all the different perks now, needing parts to craft T3 items that can be found or bought intact, and not being able to make Q6 items that can be (rarely) found or bought, there's really not much point in crafting them, and there's really no role for a dedicated crafter in multiplayer except maybe as a base and trap builder. I've mostly limited my crafting to raw materials processing.

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Light cast range is a performance issue and they need to be turned off at range. The flame itself (self illuminating) would have to be big enough to see at whatever distance you are wanting to see it at, but since the flames scale down with distance, it gets very small. Would probably have to do a non trival scaling change to deal with that, so probably not happening anytime soon.

 

There are several lights that already cast far enough away, but none are player craftable without a mod.

 

The big lit shamway signs, and all the building open and exit signs. Maybe those could be limited and one of the player craftable light's ranges can be extended?

 

We really just need something like a runway light possibility. I was going to add a mod and just drop a bunch of exit signs on the road on each side as runway lights, but figured I'd point out the issue here. (I'm forcing myself to use the gyro for runs instead of the motorcycle to see how it feels.)

 

Night flying in pitch black is a bitch....lol!

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Night flying in pitch black is a bitch....lol!

 

Just act like you know what you are doing.

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Concerning water/hydration:

 

Since introduction of the big water bottles, i have hardly had to use anything but those to keep me hydrated.

Next to some canned food also giving some water, those bottles are the only thing necessary for me.

 

Most water coolers i find when looting POIs contain at least 3 or 4 bottles, which is enough for days, cause they give so much water.

 

Next to having spent some points into sexual TRex, there is no need for tea or coffee and their corresponding stamina bonuses.

 

 

...oh and i don't know if it is due to my continued savegame from b4, but when I empty a bottle I get an empty glass jar, but shouldn't it be scrap polymers since it's obviously a plastic bottle?

Edited by meilodasreh (see edit history)

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I loaded into a game with a friend today and we had two issues that we're not sure about. This was in pregen01.

 

1. Didn't confirm this because we quit the game and went to navezgane but in town there were radiated zombies and wights spawning in when we were on day 3 with GS around 5-7.

 

2. We fell through the floor a few times and ended up just being able to tp out. Is this just a bug in pregen01?

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So I was thinking about upgrading my Charismatic nature perk which gives a boost to Agility and Fortitude I think, but only one person around me uses one of those attributes. The other people would get no benefit whatsoever because it only boost damage with those weapons.

So I got the idea of wanting to add stats to the attributes such as every point of fortitude is a +10 to health so you can get an extra 100 health at level 10 on top of the way it you get health now for a possible 300 health now that may be too much but it'd damn sure be fun running around horde night with 300 hp and for agility boost stamina for a +10 up to and extra 100 stamina. strength could be a +0.5 or +1 of stamina regen up to a max of +5 or +10 stamina regen.

I couldn't think of anything for perception and maybe intellect boost xp gain and craft speed or something. also you could boost allies hp and stamina with the charismatic nature perk so it'd be useful even if no one uses it's specified atrributes.

If i knew how to mod i'd mod those things in myself but i can't.

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