Alpha 18 feedback and balancing thread

[Laz Man]

Explosives are under Perception. How is that not good against crowds?

 

There Is also the penetrator perk for rifle users which should help those who funnel there zeds well during horde night.

 

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I stopped reading here because you need to respect my time and limit forum conversations to something most people can digest. A hammer would have some knockdown capability which as an INT guy that would be the most valuable. A bleeding zombie is still a dangerous one, so if you were smart (INT) you would want something that slows them or incapacitates them IMO.

 

Hi MM, the planned changes to INT sounds exciting. Maybe replace stun batons with something more useful. (e.g. the melee turret u mentioned?)

[Laz Man]

Junk turrets will become tier 2 weapons, not available in loot early game. At first you will craft some sort of melee trap turret, like a junk turret with a swinging sledgehammer. Tier 3 might will be some kind of robot that can move and shoot, maybe it can even carry some things for you. So nobody will have a junk turret early game. We might even make them craft only the first half of the game at least.

 

Yes to robots...or mechs/gundams that the players can mount are fine too lol...

 

[MigrantYeti]

There Is also the penetrator perk for rifle users which should help those who funnel there zeds well during horde night.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

 

 

Hi MM, the planned changes to INT sounds exciting. Maybe replace stun batons with something more useful. (e.g. the melee turret u mentioned?)

 

Agree, stun batons are cool in theory, but even with points invested pretty underpowered. The stunlock is great 1v1 but add a few more and your mediocre damage quickly gets you eaten unless you flee, maybe allow the glancing blow to apply the stun to a group (whenever it actually works as intended and not just as a zed rage bait to get you murdered)

[Thecolours]

Junk turrets will become tier 2 weapons, not available in loot early game. At first you will craft some sort of melee trap turret, like a junk turret with a swinging sledgehammer. Tier 3 might will be some kind of robot that can move and shoot, maybe it can even carry some things for you. So nobody will have a junk turret early game. We might even make them craft only the first half of the game at least.

 

That sounds amazing. I need this in A19.

[iamnuff]

I save them for big clusters of zombies and typically get 4 to 12k xp per grenade. Your problem is you have a mentality that you have to kill every zombie. Sometimes the best defense, is your defense. Just sit back and let them chew on your walls. let them pile up to a huge cluster then drop a well placed grenade and profit. You don't have to kill every damn zed as fast as they spawn, that is what thick walls are for. Let them take some blocks out, you should have several layers of blocks and multiple vault doors to fall back to, so its not a huge problem if they get through one wall.

 

Sure if I have loads of ammo, I'll just hose em all down, but you have to have a mental note of your ammo and the time. If you start with 5k ammo and 25 grenades at 10, that means at 1 am if you have less than 2500 ammo or 12 grenades you are going to run out of ammo at that rate and you need to just lay off the trigger for a bit. Focus on the vultures, fat cops and demolishers that can actually hurt you, and use grenades on big clusters and then do clean up at 4 am, problem solved.

 

On default zombie damage, they tear through concrete in seconds when they cluster up, and I can't throw grenades straight down from my roof (only throwing area that I can find)

 

The only option we've been able to come up with is ensuring that we have 3-5k of rifle-ammo each, on each horde-night.

We mine typically spend two or so days per week just getting the lead, coal and nitrate together, and we're always on the lookout for brass. Though the realisation that in-house radiators drop brass radiators when you destroy them with a pick eased that worry, a little.

 

Laying off the trigger isn't actually an option, because your house will be destroyed, and you will die.

 

Edit: I did ask how often you play in small multiplayer groups. I think you're vastly underestimating how many zombies are showing up on my horde nights.

[iamnuff]

I stopped reading here because you need to respect my time and limit forum conversations to something most people can digest.

 

... what on earth is this supposed to mean?

Did I suddenly start confusing you with high level math and theoretical physics?

What about my post was beyond your ability to digest, exactly?

 

It's a big chunk of text, sure. Most of my comments are. I've got a lot to say.

Would you prefer if i broke it up into 10-20 smaller, bite-sized comments for you?

Cuz that's often treated as doubleposting or spam on many forums.

 

I'm respecting your time and your intelligence by assuming that you can read a couple of hundred words in one go without getting bored or losing interest. As for your time... well, this is a forum.

Do you want feedback or not? Large posts contain a lot of it. 'High density', you might call it.

 

As for a hammer... I'd assume that an INT-guy would recognise dead zombies are more valuable than knocked-over zombies, and that a trap that moves something around in a circle uses less energy than something that goes up and down.

Making it bladed might be overpowered if it could cripple though, so a rotary-legbreaker might be more suitable, with a hammer or club attachment that spins horizontally at knee-height.

 

true, a blade could bleed debuff a zed causing it to rage. a smart person would prefer stun or knockdown to prevent the rage. problem would be range.

 

And getting bashed over the head wouldn't make them rage?

Not really sure where MM is getting this 'a hammer is a smart man's weapon' idea from, tbh.

 

Although granted, in-game hammers and clubs are actually way stronger than knives and machetes as weapons, so... maybe zombies are just harder to cut than they are to bash.

 

And yeah, range is going to be an issue with this trap, I forsee having to kite enemies back and forth in-front of it.

That's why I keep suggesting that the trap swings sideways, so it can hit all the squares around it, like the blade-trap does, rather than a simple up/down hammering motion, which would probably make it useless, even if it can freely rotate to target stuff behind it.

[Drunknmunkey]

So bare with me for a second. Game balancing.

 

Could parts be smelted? Currently they can't. It's difficult to make a non-int build and make a base even with the trader and schematics.

 

I'm attempting a perception build and base building without mining. I'm relying on the traders inventory. I'm level 55, it's day 31, on warrior setting with exp at 200%.

 

I haven't been able to "finish" my base/fighting patform or participate in a BM other than hiding on a roof.

 

While I'm glad traders have cement mix, across 4 traders it simply isn't enough. The duke cost is also a problem. Early, I can't afford the cement as my quest rewards and item selling is terrible. Later, they simply don't have enough resources.

 

I can sell the parts for more dukes but, if the trader doesn't have enough metal or cement to buy, the extra cash is redundant.

 

Most of the parts collected at the moment are basically worthless unless you have points in that skill or want a few extra dukes.

 

The ability to smelt these parts for extra metal would be a benefit in my mind. I would rather have the metal than the dukes early game. Most of us know the skill route we are taking and collecting those parts we are not going to use seems like a waste of space. And yet, many of us, myself included, can't let go of any loot and it just stacks up endlessly without being used.

 

*sits on 50 sham chowder*

NO I can't sell it, It's important, and the sell price is crap for the effort it took to make it!.. .. ..

"Howdy, stranger!"

*selling 40 sham chowder sir.... sniff*

"Much obliged."

[wolfbain5]

 

And getting bashed over the head wouldn't make them rage?

Not really sure where MM is getting this 'a hammer is a smart man's weapon' idea from, tbh.

 

Although granted, in-game hammers and clubs are actually way stronger than knives and machetes as weapons, so... maybe zombies are just harder to cut than they are to bash.

.

 

you are ignoring game logic, stun doesnt damage, knockdown doesnt damage. bleed does damage over time so each tick is a rage chance.

[iamnuff]

you are ignoring game logic, stun doesnt damage, knockdown doesnt damage. bleed does damage over time so each tick is a rage chance.

 

Huh, I assumed it was per-hit or per-status-effect-applied.

 

You could remove the bleed-chance and just leave a dismember chance, or...

 

Well, I assume it's going to be rapid-attacking anyway, otherwise it probably wouldn't be very useful, so the rage-change is going to be pretty high anyway.

 

Maybe they should remove the rage chance from bleed ticks anyway though, since it doesn't make a lot of sense anyway. Being enraged by being attack makes sense, but zombies shouldn't feel pain, so lingering wounds should have no effect on them.

Also, it bladed weapons kind of need all the buffs they can get, given how powerful blunt weapons are.

Bleed isn't really comparable to stun or knockdown, and lots of blunt weapons have both.

[meganoth]

Could parts be smelted? Currently they can't. It's difficult to make a non-int build and make a base even with the trader and schematics.

 

I'm attempting a perception build and base building without mining. I'm relying on the traders inventory. I'm level 55, it's day 31, on warrior setting with exp at 200%.

 

I haven't been able to "finish" my base/fighting patform or participate in a BM other than hiding on a roof.

 

Sure it is difficult. Setting exp at 200% actually gives you less time to prepare for much more difficult horde nights that ramp up faster because your gamestage goes up faster than normal.

 

If you don't want to mine you have to get your building resources mainly from cobblestone and cement stacks you find in POI's.

[Laz Man]

...I can't throw grenades straight down from my roof (only throwing area that I can find)...

 

Well theres one problem that you can adjust right there. There are plenty of base strats out there to fix that.

 

Also, it would help if you list what difficulty settings you guys are using as well as which horde night (e.g. # of players, GS for each, etc.)

[faatal]

I'm respecting your time and your intelligence by assuming that you can read a couple of hundred words in one go without getting bored or losing interest...

 

It is not just your posts here, there are also a lot of others to read. And yes I also tend to skim over large posts as I'm sure others do too.

[faatal]

Huh, I assumed it was per-hit or per-status-effect-applied.

 

You could remove the bleed-chance and just leave a dismember chance, or...

 

Well, I assume it's going to be rapid-attacking anyway, otherwise it probably wouldn't be very useful, so the rage-change is going to be pretty high anyway.

 

Maybe they should remove the rage chance from bleed ticks anyway though, since it doesn't make a lot of sense anyway. Being enraged by being attack makes sense, but zombies shouldn't feel pain, so lingering wounds should have no effect on them.

Also, it bladed weapons kind of need all the buffs they can get, given how powerful blunt weapons are.

Bleed isn't really comparable to stun or knockdown, and lots of blunt weapons have both.

 

On default difficulty, bleeds are 3% chance per second, so not that high.

 

They can feel pain if we want them too. They see, hear, smell and think to some degree. If they could not feel, then you could just stab or bash them in the back and they would never turn around, since they would not feel it.

[bayaholic]

I am doing my first blade build. I feel like the bleeding debuff from zeds should not cause them to rage.

As is with the knife and agility build, you are already at a disadvantage because once you slice them, they rage from your hit, then dont stop running because of the constant bleeding debuff rage.

Clubs will stun and knock them down. Kind of a safer option but then they need to bring a blade to skin animals. Loss of inventory slot.

[iamnuff]

It is not just your posts here, there are also a lot of others to read. And yes I also tend to skim over large posts as I'm sure others do too.

 

For a developer, reading through a feedback thread, a large post is much more valuable than a small one.

You're getting more potentially usable data per line in a single 900 word post than you would in 20 posts that were each 1/10th of the wordcount, because it's dense and usually on all on the same couple of topics.

 

Is it useful data? I couldn't say, since I'm not a developer on this game, And neither could madmole, since he didn't read it.

 

Frankly, if you're not willing to put the effort in to read less than a thousand words of willingly provided high-density feedback, then I'm not sure why you're... in a feedback thread.

Like, actually? Why bother?

 

Also, the comment about time is kind of insulting.

What? You think I just crapped that out? You think it didn't take me time to write it? More time than it'd take you to read it, that's for sure.

But I spent that time, because I was willing to take a couple of minutes to try to provide something that just might be useful for the development of the game, as we all are in this thread.

That's literally why we#re all in here.

 

Does that obligate anybody to read my posts? No! Of course not!

But at least don't act like i'm at fault for you being intimidated by a moderate amount of text.

 

Read it or ignore it, as is your preference, but don't complain that I've provided too much data.

[Jugginator]

 

For a developer, reading through a feedback thread, a large post is much more valuable than a small one.

You're getting more potentially usable data per line in a single 900 word post than you would in 20 posts that were each 1/10th of the wordcount, because it's dense and usually on all on the same couple of topics.

 

useful data?

 

less than a thousand words of willingly provided high-density feedback, then I'm not sure why you're... in a feedback thread.

text.

 

Read it or ignore it, as is your preference, but don't complain that I've provided too much data.

 

 

 

 

Mate, data != huge amounts of feature suggestions/text... If you're going to go near 1000 words worth of things you think would be cool to add, that's something you can make an entire suggestion thread about. Feedback/balancing, not Pimp Dreams. Why they're saying that.

[Jay_ombie]

Agree, stun batons are cool in theory, but even with points invested pretty underpowered. The stunlock is great 1v1 but add a few more and your mediocre damage quickly gets you eaten unless you flee, maybe allow the glancing blow to apply the stun to a group (whenever it actually works as intended and not just as a zed rage bait to get you murdered)

 

Likewise, I can never gel with the batons as they seem just to much fiddle work to get going compared to simple clubs, bam-hit-down like.

[Drunknmunkey]

Sure it is difficult. Setting exp at 200% actually gives you less time to prepare for much more difficult horde nights that ramp up faster because your gamestage goes up faster than normal.

 

If you don't want to mine you have to get your building resources mainly from cobblestone and cement stacks you find in POI's.

 

Makes sense but, mining is mining even if it's a poi.

 

I just think parts should be smeltable.

 

Also, the descriptions for level 2 and 3 on demolitions expert are flipped/backwards. TNT unlocks grenades and Explosives unlocks TNT.

[faatal]

For a developer, reading through a feedback thread, a large post is much more valuable than a small one.

You're getting more potentially usable data per line in a single 900 word post than you would in 20 posts that were each 1/10th of the wordcount, because it's dense and usually on all on the same couple of topics.

 

Is it useful data? I couldn't say, since I'm not a developer on this game, And neither could madmole, since he didn't read it.

 

That is completely subjective. Some developers may love it and get whatever out of it. A lot of developers know what they want and are simply looking for like/dislikes or problems players have. Other developers don't care and read nothing or only read what seems related to their own job.

 

MM was and I am letting you know that we as a general rule skim or skip over large posts. That lets you know, you can keep writing large posts knowing that we may only read the first paragraph or two or you can put what you care about most, up front in a smaller post, knowing you have a better chance of one or more of us reading it. If I'm posting on a company forum, I would like to know that.

 

Also, we do only spend x amount of time per day reading these forums. Everything posted is competing for our attention and a lot of it is never read by a dev. You want to get read by a dev, then I would post in a manner that gets their attention in a good way.

[bayaholic]

Great work Pimps! I appreciate the amount of love you have for the game and the fact that you tend to the forums. Happy holidays Pimps and Pimpettes.

[AtomicUs5000]

Been playing without a base with BM nightly. One of these nights, I climbed up on a boulder. The 30 or so zombies all huddled around a different boulder about 8 to 10 meters away and started jumping on it and beating on it. I was able to pick them all off from my boulder without a worry.

Just pointing this out as it seems like an AI flaw.

[bayaholic]

You and the zombies rocked out all night. It was like a concert in my mind.

[Laz Man]

For a developer, reading through a feedback thread, a large post is much more valuable than a small one.

You're getting more potentially usable data per line in a single 900 word post than you would in 20 posts that were each 1/10th of the wordcount, because it's dense and usually on all on the same couple of topics.

 

Is it useful data? I couldn't say, since I'm not a developer on this game, And neither could madmole, since he didn't read it.

 

Frankly, if you're not willing to put the effort in to read less than a thousand words of willingly provided high-density feedback, then I'm not sure why you're... in a feedback thread.

Like, actually? Why bother?

 

Also, the comment about time is kind of insulting.

What? You think I just crapped that out? You think it didn't take me time to write it? More time than it'd take you to read it, that's for sure.

But I spent that time, because I was willing to take a couple of minutes to try to provide something that just might be useful for the development of the game, as we all are in this thread.

That's literally why we#re all in here.

 

Does that obligate anybody to read my posts? No! Of course not!

But at least don't act like i'm at fault for you being intimidated by a moderate amount of text.

 

Read it or ignore it, as is your preference, but don't complain that I've provided too much data.

 

Actually, in many facets in life, not just development, shorter, clearer and more concise communication is more effective. So you shouldnt feel insulted by comments about time. Some game devs dont even reply back to the community...

 

It's not that your feedback is not valuable, rather time is always limited and frankly trying to shuffle through all of the subjective feedback on the forums is alot of the time like finding a needle in a hay stack.

 

I recommend bullet points and shorter and more concise feedback at a better chance at getting a response.

[Laz Man]

Balance question (forumites dont shoot me..😂)

 

I just realized placing a mod in an item greatly increases its sell value versus selling the mod by itself. Is this intended? I think I have 1 point into better barter and the cigar as reference... (Stable 18.1)

 

I even noticed kage in one of his videos buying all the mods from the trader just to install them in items for resell. Seemed slightly OP.

[KidInTheHall]

I'm having an issue that's just popped up since I started playing after the last patch, whenever I am using flaming arrows with my bow, I am suddenly catching on fire when I hit a zombie. The zombies are a good distance away.