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Alpha 18 feedback and balancing thread


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the game needs a setting for the cost of the goods for the trader. This would be a logical continuation of the loot settings.

For example, I want loot to be small, but the cost of the items found was high.

 

also need to add settings the RW gen. So that you can create a world without a trader. Many people would like to play without a trader.

 

So don't go to the trader? Also, the cost of the goods that the trader sells are already expensive. Everything is oriented towards endgame. Early to midgame, outside of small purchases, you won't be buying anything that you can't easily find/loot/craft yourself. Traders are also required for quests currently. No trader means few, if any of the in-game quests can be completed.

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Since you’re already at high gamestage why not turn xp earning up to 300% so you can keep leveling at an acceptable rate? Nobody wants to tell White Gandalf at level 100, “ You shall not pass!”

 

Even at 300% XP gain, leveling is far too slow currently. I've dumped a lot of hours into Alpha 18 (though admittedly with multiple games) and I've never surpassed level 100, and I don't even believe I've gotten to level 80, though I'd have to look. The current alpha (later on) is a sludge-fest and feels very grindy.

 

This also drastically hurts new players and the early game, because if you don't know where exactly to put your points early game, you are going to pay for it later when you realized you messed up. You may even have to start over. A game that is designed liked this needs to have a way to easily correct stuff like this. Only 1 in-game item can help with this, and it is very expensive to obtain. If leveling were a bit faster, all you'd have to do is grind a bit, grab a few more points, and start moving yourself on the correct path. The way it is currently, it can take up to 2 full hours to go up one level mid-game (depending on your actions, of course).

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Roughly anything that has about 100-200ish health with buckshot. Book shelves being the number 1 victim of being 1 shotted by stray shotgun pellets for me, with cabinets being a close second. Destroyed a few medical piles as well with a stray pellet or 2 multiple times as well. What usually happens is I unload a buckshot shell into a zombie at close range, but it doesn't take all 10 pellets to kill it, so the rest seem to just sort of phase thru the zombies body and hit whatever is behind it, which is useful if its another zombie, but annoying when its a bookshelf or something else as it'll most likely get destroyed. I got a solution though. Allow the player to convert the buckshot into a diff type of buckshot on the fly, that removes (or reduces it to 1 per pellet) the block damage, sort of like a toggle, but you have to do it with the ammo, can use the existing icon, and it'd just be a recipe and a item entry, a xml thing at most. Then again you'd have to add it to the shotgun's ammo selector, unsure how that process is. Have the looted/trader bought buckshot ammo just all be the normal ones. This way you got your block destroying buckshot, but now you have a option to convert to a type with 1 block dmg per pellet. Another solution is to just up the hp of certan lootables, namely, bookshelves and cabinets to be about 300, this way it'd prevent this I think.

 

The dangers of using such a weapon indoors. Although with the double barrel shotgun I rarely have this issue. However I'm quite a bit more picky about where I'm aiming when I shoot. I've even gone so far as to lure zombies outside before taking them out. Especially if there are a lot of them.

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Whats up with the food/thirst system?

i'm getting the thirsty warning when I'm at 100 water now , it seems to rise by a few points every time I level up? why does leveling up increase how thirsty one gets? I get the extra points in water to gain the stamina, but why does the warning increase? that should warn at 50% at all levels.

 

And the hungersystem is as wonky as in A17. Needing to eat 4-5 full cans of food to get full from a half stomach? (from a tiny tiny can of catfood it would make sense, but not a whole beefcan) :(

 

On a related note, can someone direct me where to change this in the xmls? it's driving us nuts :(

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My only real issue with that is that shotguns with buckshot are frequently used in home defense scenarios expressly because they won't over-penetrate walls like a 5.56 or 7.62 can. Yes, I know fun gameplay trumps realism, but the damage to containers from an accidental shot or near-miss is actually a problem.

 

Could it be lowered at least on the standard ammo so that a point-blank shot where one block gets all pellets will still shatter it, but a stray pellet from a middle-distance shot won't wreck the chest you're working towards? That would keep from having to switch ammo but still alleviate the issue.

 

00 buckshot is far more likely to penetrate several interior walls than 5.56. I keep #4 in mine. 'over penetration' doesn't mean when you miss it means you hit your intended target and the round still has energy to go through one or more interior walls retaining energy to do harm to another person. 5.56 at close range tend to yaw and fragment.

 

7.62x39 or .308 yes both poor choices for close range defensive options.

 

from both a realism and fun perspective I like the fact if you have errant shots your crap gets broke. build a better base with a more secure loot room... keep your air locks closed to keep dem z's out of your goodies.

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Why should it be? Admin should choose to be a player.

 

God can choose to be a human, but he will never be unless he rennounces his power and immortality. That's what Jesus is all about lol.

 

If God's power is unlimited, he can overcome any limit he puts up to himself (including the inherent paradox). So all he can do is choose to not use his power.

 

Just like an admin can. :fat:

 

Seriously it is very hard to limit the power of a server admin. As a last resort the admin can always manipulate the save game on disk. You might make it more difficult for the admin by checksumming, encrypting and/or cryptographically signing the save game, with lots of significant disadvantages. And he still could circumvent that unless steam or FTP manages all the keys from a central server.

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If God's power is unlimited, he can overcome any limit he puts up to himself (including the inherent paradox). So all he can do is choose to not use his power.

 

Just like an admin can. :fat:

 

Seriously it is very hard to limit the power of a server admin. As a last resort the admin can always manipulate the save game on disk. You might make it more difficult for the admin by checksumming, encrypting and/or cryptographically signing the save game, with lots of significant disadvantages. And he still could circumvent that unless steam or FTP manages all the keys from a central server.

Not rocket science to have a cheat mode, though.

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Glad you like it!

 

We've talked about needing oxygen mining deep, but I'm not sure we need to make mining more complex. At later game its kind of a big time sink getting the ammo you need and I can't see any good reason to add complexity/risk to it.

 

Once we get town masks in they can respawn every day and have denser populations than the wild, right now its all one big setting for the entire biome.

 

I think mining needs some love in order to be fun. Incentives to build mines in certain way, hazards, minigames, way to search for diamond/gold/silver etc. It might be interesting to spawn more varied deposits, so it isnt essentially big square, but you follow different branches, that can hold some dangers, or treasures.

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If God's power is unlimited, he can overcome any limit he puts up to himself (including the inherent paradox). So all he can do is choose to not use his power.

 

Just like an admin can. :fat:

 

Seriously it is very hard to limit the power of a server admin. As a last resort the admin can always manipulate the save game on disk. You might make it more difficult for the admin by checksumming, encrypting and/or cryptographically signing the save game, with lots of significant disadvantages. And he still could circumvent that unless steam or FTP manages all the keys from a central server.

 

Not like that. I meant only block access to new game options in the *continue game* options and also block the console in game for the admin if said admin so chooses in the new game options.

 

In essence all I'm asking is for a couple of new options in the lines of :

 

-Lock game options on new world start Yes/No (default).

 

-Console: Admin only(default) / everybody

 

Not having them is a balance issue by itself and of course also prevents a fair Pvp in the future. Hell, it even prevents a fun Pve in some cases.

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Not like that. I meant only block access to new game options in the *continue game* options and also block the console in game for the admin if said admin so chooses in the new game options.

 

In essence all I'm asking is for a couple of new options in the lines of :

 

-Lock game options on new world start Yes/No (default).

 

-Console: Admin only(default) / everybody

 

Not having them is a balance issue by itself and of course also prevents a fair Pvp in the future. Hell, it even prevents a fun Pve in some cases.

 

Aren't settings for an MP game on the server which can only be changed by the admin so I'm alittle lost how such a setting would do anything for pvp.

 

Locking settings for SP/PVE also is a bit weird as why does it matter what people do in their sp/coop game to you?

 

Being able to up the difficulty later on has helped me keep things interesting for my current playthrough.

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Not having them is a balance issue by itself and of course also prevents a fair Pvp in the future. Hell, it even prevents a fun Pve in some cases.

It's in no way a balance issue because it's the owning player's decision.

 

Encrypt everything because you cannot trust yourself? That sounds like overkill.

And if you don't trust the people whose server you play on then that's a people problem, not a game problem.

 

Or are you trying to remove their power of banning you after a game has started? What exactly were you planning to do? =P

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Not rocket science to have a cheat mode, though.

 

Not sure what you are getting at. The objective of Blake_ was to remove power not add power with cheat modes. And it is much harder to remove the powers of someone with admin powers on a machine than give additional ones.

 

 

Not like that. I meant only block access to new game options in the *continue game* options and also block the console in game for the admin if said admin so chooses in the new game options.

 

In essence all I'm asking is for a couple of new options in the lines of :

 

-Lock game options on new world start Yes/No (default).

 

-Console: Admin only(default) / everybody

 

Not having them is a balance issue by itself and of course also prevents a fair Pvp in the future. Hell, it even prevents a fun Pve in some cases.

 

So you don't trust the server admin of a MP game enough to NOT hit F1 and do some rash actions in his favor. But in the long term he is still trustworthy enough to not do some of the same actions while he manages the server? Really sounds like a special case. Either he is trustworthy or he isn't. In the latter case he can use his admin powers whenever no one is looking.

 

And it is possible already for the admin on an MP server to not give himself admin powers in the game. Look up serveradmin.xml. The disadvantage is that nobody is checking the other players for misuse, so you need to trust ALL players on the server as much as the admin.

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It's in no way a balance issue because it's the owning player's decision.

 

Encrypt everything because you cannot trust yourself? That sounds like overkill.

And if you don't trust the people whose server you play on then that's a people problem, not a game problem.

 

Or are you trying to remove their power of banning you after a game has started? What exactly were you planning to do? =P

 

Stop it Gazz. Disagreeing with Blake and failing to understand his viewpoint is an American privilege...

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Even at 300% XP gain, leveling is far too slow currently. I've dumped a lot of hours into Alpha 18 (though admittedly with multiple games) and I've never surpassed level 100, and I don't even believe I've gotten to level 80, though I'd have to look. The current alpha (later on) is a sludge-fest

 

Are you playing stable or the newest experimental?

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Not like that. I meant only block access to new game options in the *continue game* options and also block the console in game for the admin if said admin so chooses in the new game options.

 

In essence all I'm asking is for a couple of new options in the lines of :

 

-Lock game options on new world start Yes/No (default).

 

-Console: Admin only(default) / everybody

 

Not having them is a balance issue by itself and of course also prevents a fair Pvp in the future. Hell, it even prevents a fun Pve in some cases.

 

I am a PVP player so I understand what you are saying and I agree for the most part. Most others that do not play PVP will not understand where you are coming from. Since PVP gets very little love, best to just dream about the needed changes but hey, you never know....maybe one of the devs will listen? :)

 

As far as "-Console: Admin only(default) / everybody" that would be horrible and it'll make the server with no active admins a playground for hackers....trust me....bad idea

Never play on a server if you cannot trust the admins that run it.

 

EDIT: I think i read your statements regarding console commands for admins wrong...i'm still a little confused but...yeah its already like that man. when setting up a server you can make is so that only admins can access the commands...so not sure what you mean.? Not sure why in the world you would want everyone on the server to have access to commands that is for admins..that would kill a server..heard about trolls?

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Are the advanced running shoes supposed to be really rare? I have not found them yet in any of my games. I know they exist because my cousin found them in one of his games.

 

With that one book you can craft the athletic jacket and basic running shoes, and I find lots of basic running shoes. Would be cool if I could craft the advanced running shoes. I do not think you can craft them now, unless I missed something. Did not see them in the craft list.

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Are you playing stable or the newest experimental?

 

strange that he/she is having an issue with XP. We are on day 220-ish and most of us are level 35-75. there are 20+ of us and we are mining/hunting and questing and doing horde night parties with XP-sharing.

 

We are on A18.1 B8 and XP is at DEFAULT 1x only.

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Are the advanced running shoes supposed to be really rare? I have not found them yet in any of my games. I know they exist because my cousin found them in one of his games.

 

With that one book you can craft the athletic jacket and basic running shoes, and I find lots of basic running shoes. Would be cool if I could craft the advanced running shoes. I do not think you can craft them now, unless I missed something. Did not see them in the craft list.

 

I've played a dozen games and I can't really think of a game where I did not find running shoes and a jacket by day 7. Random loot can just be crazy sometimes.

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I am now in the endgame for the first time in A18 and have the impression that level gaining was better balanced in previous alphas. I acknowledge the desire of many, if not most, players from previous alphas to slow down the progression a bit, but by raising the exponential factor from 1.015 to 1.05, despite removing the low level cap of previous alphas, you effectively introduced a new level cap that is way lower than it ever was. I cannot imagine how anyone could go beyond level 100, even with the ascend cap at level 60.

 

I nowadays (at level around 70) get no more than barely one level per ingame day, and that only when i dig like insane with an auger. Questing or killing zombies is by far in no way leading to any noticeable level gain.

 

While that may be OK regarding capping of the difficulty level of horde nights (don't know if that was intended by funpimps), it well limits the fun in the endgame phase. At least for those who play the game with a fun factor in character development, that stagnation limits their fun.

 

Now, regarding the possibly gain-able levels, the limit of character development at beginning of the endgame phase is around 60 levels. It seems to me being a very well defined reason why you defined the ascend cap at just level 60. There is not much more the character will develop, if that cap would not have been introduced with the last update.

 

Even with that ascend cap, it becomes boringly slow.

 

With those 60 levels, you can barely max out exactly 1 of the 5 perk trees (9 perk types per attribute, 5 perk levels per perk = 45 perk points, plus 20 points in the concerning attribute = 65 points per perk tree). IF and only if you complete ignore all others. Which no one who not already knows the game from in and out would ever do. Such type of powergaming is in every existing game the endpoint of gaming for peoples that mastered the game to the roots. But it is far from having fun.

 

So, people playing the game for fun and not knowing the last freaking detail of optimization in advance, will likely experience a critical fun limitation.

 

The impression that has grown in me is: That ♥♥♥♥s. To get to a level of 130, which you would need to have the preferred perk tree somewhat maxed while having a bit of accompanying perks in other trees built up, you would have to madly auger-dig through mountains of mud for about 60 ingame days without any need of the resources, only to get those ♥♥♥♥ing learning points. Because other activities would by far not yield a fraction of the necessary XP.

 

Summing this up, i recommend lowering the exponential factor again, to something higher than in alphas until 17, but rather lower than that of A18. I for myself modded that exponential factor to something like 1.02 in the previous alphas and was satisfied. In the current perk scaling however, it maybe would best fit to set it at 1.03 - remarkably lower progression than in previous alphas, thus effectively limiting the level at around 100-150 (depending on the penetrance of the player), but sufficiently quicker and more prolonged progression than in the current state. The same time i would scrap the ascend cap.

 

So for my next playthrough, i will modd it that way and see if it's more satisfying than at the moment.

Nonsense. Turn up the XP rate if you think its too slow. If anything its too fast yet. I started a Fallout 4 INT build and I'm level 41 at 60+ hours in, using an INT 13 character (Int gives you maximum xp gains in Fallout) and I'm pretty OP at level 40, just like in 7 Days. Its not intended that you get every perk. I played Ark every night for about 6 months to reach level 100. I got to level 60 in the first week, but going from 60 to 100 tok 5.75 months.

 

With all the books, gear and other ways to gain power in 7 Days leveling is just a small part of the fun, plus leveling increases difficulty so we can't do it too fast, players need to find good gear to keep up or use with their new found perks. You should only level every 3 hours late game IMO.

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Nonsense. Turn up the XP rate if you think its too slow. If anything its too fast yet. I started a Fallout 4 INT build and I'm level 41 at 60+ hours in, using an INT 13 character (Int gives you maximum xp gains in Fallout) and I'm pretty OP at level 40, just like in 7 Days. Its not intended that you get every perk. I played Ark every night for about 6 months to reach level 100. I got to level 60 in the first week, but going from 60 to 100 tok 5.75 months.

 

With all the books, gear and other ways to gain power in 7 Days leveling is just a small part of the fun, plus leveling increases difficulty so we can't do it too fast, players need to find good gear to keep up or use with their new found perks. You should only level every 3 hours late game IMO.

 

Smuggling a little feedback into your words, after playing a18 for a good while I think leveling is still a little too fast (1~ per day). Increasing the total xp level requirements by 10-20% wouldn't hurt a bit. Not too much not too little. We can still achieve level 300 by day 300 without sweating.

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While i am digging like a madman - for reasons i described in a shortly previous post -, i am having pure fun for the well made mouthwatering ore textures and the well made texture processing at material transitions.

 

I am extremely turned on by the textures of iron and lead. And that of the gravel in between. And how well you can predict what is what and how to dig to prevent things from collapsing. For example.

 

In comparison to previous alphas, i appreciate that to be a mayor progression. Do not (!) scrap that system ever from now on! You have done exceptional good work here, by my humble opinion.

 

Mining is done as long as ore distribution is even now.

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Smuggling a little feedback into your words, after playing a18 for a good while I think leveling is still a little too fast (1~ per day). Increasing the total xp level requirements by 10-20% wouldn't hurt a bit. Not too much not too little. We can still achieve level 300 by day 300 without sweating.

 

Please explain how its possible to reach 300 by day 300 as it is right now, hell even with a 20% increase in required xp to level up...again please explain your method for leveling up so fast?

 

EDIT: with 100% xp, default settings...not talking turning up time for days by 120..just default settings for everything.

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