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Alpha 18 feedback and balancing thread


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That's because you are going off the false assumption that you become thirsty/hungry at an increasing rate (as you gain levels).

 

You are correct, don't ask me how but I started an older game, lol

Just checked and it is always the same number, no more percentage, great.

 

This post makes no sense. What are you talking about?

 

See above

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Maybe. I seriously thought there would be a flood of complaints about slowed leveling, but it got a pretty warm welcome. I thought we could also add a loot modifier that slows down how soon you get good loot or speeds it up, same with game staging because frankly those are knobs that add replay value.

 

Yes please :D

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I kept saying that all along! Somehow folks thought that an actual mind wipe would be a bad thing. IMO that's the only proper cost because at some point cash loses it's value so the balancing factor vanishes.

 

Isn't the whole point of using a mindwipe because you found all the recipes or schematics and so now you no longer need the perks?

 

I know that there are some minor benefits that the perks give you that the books don't, but that is a choice the player must make: whether those minor benefits are with keeping the perks for, or speccing into something entirely different.

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Thats actually pretty slow, I am on day 19 almost day 20, and I am level 46 already. Difficulty is set to warrior, and mark air drops is on, other than that everything else is default settings. My Gamestage is at 108 currently. I expect i'll see demolishers on the day 28 horde at the pace I am going, as they need 153 GS or so before they have a chance to start to show last I checked. [ATTACH=CONFIG]30658[/ATTACH]

 

Yep, my zombie kill count is 1400 to 1500 at Day 35 while your already at 1200 to 1300. I havent really focused on leveling to be honest, which was the point I was making for that other dude. 😎

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Not sure if this has been asked or not but should we reset our worlds with 18.2 Exp. We updated our server today to the latest experimental from 18.1 and for some reason a lot of our trees are at 1 hp and if we hit them, they are one shotted, with axe or bikes. There is also a ton of new trees as well so we have double the trees everywhere..... Not all trees are at 1hp, only some are. Its as if the ones before the update were affected and new ones spawned or vice versa. Any feedback would be helpful!

 

The developers have said nothing about any change that would make restarting mandatory. So:

 

If hitting some bug is one of your biggest worries and can sour the game for you, then restart

 

If instead you can keep a level head and just go into creative mode to correct the damage, then carry on.

 

When I updated to the newest experimental, one of our forges bugged out (the game hung up immediately when I tried to access it). I used a pickaxe to destroy the station, replaced the some lost stuff from creative and that was it. You might see different effects (like the trees) or have no problems at all. Nobody can predict that.

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Isn't the whole point of using a mindwipe because you found all the recipes or schematics and so now you no longer need the perks?

 

I know that there are some minor benefits that the perks give you that the books don't, but that is a choice the player must make: whether those minor benefits are with keeping the perks for, or speccing into something entirely different.

 

Yep, I think that's why they are considering changing it as its OP. A complete mind wipe plus the high cost is probably what is needed.

 

The super prepared would stockpile a copy of every book that they already learned which I think is an acceptable activity as it takes effort to do so.

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50% seems about right to me. You can already mod the game to allow any unreasonable leveling speed.

 

I'm leveling up too fast: 82 to 90 in less than 2 days (just mining and building). I think the good spot would be 500k for each lvl at my current lvl, but I need 187k and that would make my gamestage skyrocket so I change it to 25% (although, I really wanted 33%, but I don't have necessary skills to change xml so 25% it is).

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Maybe. I seriously thought there would be a flood of complaints about slowed leveling, but it got a pretty warm welcome. I thought we could also add a loot modifier that slows down how soon you get good loot or speeds it up, same with game staging because frankly those are knobs that add replay value.

 

I personally think it's turned out great. Points are really valuable now and hard decisions on where to spend them are a good consequence. It's also extremely rewarding to open up the skills menu after a long while to discover you have 3 or 4 points to spend.

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Isn't the whole point of using a mindwipe because you found all the recipes or schematics and so now you no longer need the perks?

 

I know that there are some minor benefits that the perks give you that the books don't, but that is a choice the player must make: whether those minor benefits are with keeping the perks for, or speccing into something entirely different.

 

( If you had used "schematic perks" instead of "perks" and "schematics" instead of "books", your post might not have been so confusing. :cocksure: )

 

You are right, that would be one way to see it. But there are schematic perks that allow you to build things and then never need them again. All the vehicle schematics and the crucible schematic can be safely forgotten after you built one.

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I'm leveling up too fast: 82 to 90 in less than 2 days (just mining and building).

The XP gain is still very unbalanced, but it became better with A18. I play only private multiplayer with friends and we specialize our chars, mostly according to the persons playstyle.

I usually play the "food supply"-guy, so i do farming and cooking. While my buddy is our builder, he now builds a small concrete wall and gains 5 levelups, while im cooking and farming my ass off and get almost nothing at all. Iirc harvesting a plant from a plot gives like... 8 XP, cooking delicious blueberry pie no XP at all.

Lastly i also specialized in rifles and finally built my marksman rifle (after searching the build menu for minutes until i realized, in the build menu its called "mr-10"...) and got no XP for building that.

My buddy upgrades 1 rebar frame with concrete and earns f...ing ~800XP per block... most zombies get less XP when killed. Other way round, repairing damged blocks gives only very little XP.

 

Yeah, i know, he can place the rebar frames and let me upgrade them... that's what we did anyway, because our builder was 10 levels ahead soon. But that's not how we want to play. He likes building, i don't. But the xp mechanics forces me to do it and he has to stop with it.

 

I think gained XP should align with the needed skill and ressource costs. Building a weapen should give maybe 1000XP, because it needs specialized skills and expensive ressources. Building a reinforced concrete block doesn't need expensive ressources and you do it a hundred times, so maybe building one block give 50XP. Reparing a 50% damaged reinforced concrete block should accordingly give 25XP then.

Harvesting own plants from plots should at least give the XP like wild plants. Also Cooking should at least give you some XP. Maybe cooking water 2XP, cooking a meat stew 50XP?

 

Of course this then needs to be scaled to what XP amount is which level.

 

Maybe that is not (so) relevant in singleplayer, because the single player has to do everything anyway.

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Upgrading 20 blocks requires your time and activity. Cooking 20 delicious blueberry pies is clicking a button and then forgetting it.

 

You could upgrade 20 blocks simultaneously with your pies baking and get both xp rewards which would leave your builder friend behind.

 

Ongoing crafting xp— especially those jobs done at workstations simply turn into xp factories for the sake of power leveling when they exist in the game. Since crafting in this game is “click once and forget” it should never have ongoing xp rewards. As it is I think you do get xp the first few times you craft a new recipe. It was like that in A17 but I haven’t noticed if it is still that way or if it applies to workstation crafting.

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Crafting stuff should yield experience aswell. I'm playing with a less experienced player and as such I usually do the building and he does the filling/upgrading, needless to say I get the short end of the stick for the hardest of the 2 jobs.

 

@Roland I understand the issue but once again the system is tinkered around preventing min-maxers to butcher their own games, just like LBD back in the days. And let's be honest, upgrading 20 blocks once you have anything but a stone axe is pretty swift.

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Yep, I think that's why they are considering changing it as its OP. A complete mind wipe plus the high cost is probably what is needed.

 

The super prepared would stockpile a copy of every book that they already learned which I think is an acceptable activity as it takes effort to do so.

 

It already costs 40k dukes to do it. If they made it wipe the recipes you already found, no one would use it. Hell, I can't be bothered to use it now even though I could afford it and I have a few points that might serve me better elsewhere. So yea, keep going to get this nerfed. Just like power attacks are worse dps and worse stamina usage than regular attacks unless you are using knuckles or a hunting knife. That is what you get when you pander to the "Everything is OP" crowd.

 

Keep that in mind every time you see a youtuber power attack into a crowd of zombies with a sledge hammer. It might look cool, but they are still dumb for doing it.

 

Another thing is the RNG in this game simply isn't. There is nothing random about going into a book store and finding 8 copies of the same book from 24 bookshelves. That is not random. Every play through of the game I do, there is always something that I can never find after extended play time. All I have to do is go into the creative menu. Give one of that item to my player. Save the game. Then drop that item on the ground. I will find then find the item again in no time. That is not random. It is clearly being influenced by position in memory and it is also proven to be influenced by the order of the loot list it self. This problem is made way worse by the fact that the lists of things you can find in containers is far too big. It just makes it that much more unlikely that you will find the thing you are looking for in the appropriate place. I don't know about you, but I just love finding trash in refrigerators and food in the trash. The high amount of loot overlap in the various containers hurts my brain.

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It already costs 40k dukes to do it. If they made it wipe the recipes you already found, no one would use it. Hell, I can't be bothered to use it now even though I could afford it and I have a few points that might serve me better elsewhere. So yea, keep going to get this nerfed. Just like power attacks are worse dps and worse stamina usage than regular attacks unless you are using knuckles or a hunting knife. That is what you get when you pander to the "Everything is OP" crowd.

 

Keep that in mind every time you see a youtuber power attack into a crowd of zombies with a sledge hammer. It might look cool, but they are still dumb for doing it.

 

Another thing is the RNG in this game simply isn't. There is nothing random about going into a book store and finding 8 copies of the same book from 24 bookshelves. That is not random. Every play through of the game I do, there is always something that I can never find after extended play time. All I have to do is go into the creative menu. Give one of that item to my player. Save the game. Then drop that item on the ground. I will find then find the item again in no time. That is not random. It is clearly being influenced by position in memory and it is also proven to be influenced by the order of the loot list it self. This problem is made way worse by the fact that the lists of things you can find in containers is far too big. It just makes it that much more unlikely that you will find the thing you are looking for in the appropriate place. I don't know about you, but I just love finding trash in refrigerators and food in the trash. The high amount of loot overlap in the various containers hurts my brain.

 

I don't think your very personal experience is enough data to backup the fact the game sets you up so that you don't find what you want.

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Yep, my zombie kill count is 1400 to 1500 at Day 35 while your already at 1200 to 1300. I havent really focused on leveling to be honest, which was the point I was making for that other dude.

 

lvl 68, 3500+ kills, no deaths, day 50, GS 140. default diff.

 

Oh, I got the 1hp trees too, same thing, stable to exp on the server. The little pine trees are back (seems they were missing) and a lot of the others popped back in.

 

2 of them right in the middle of my spike rows around the base. was a treat killing them I tell you.

(I know I have to wipe the server, but dammit, I JUST got the book to make the m60. I'll put up with the trees for a bit)

 

On the mind wipe, yes, the whole point to me is, I have the books, so don't need the low level perks I took (eg: chef)

Losing the book skills too, would defeat the purpose. Granted, one could just spawn back in the books, but...

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Upgrading 20 blocks requires your time and activity. Cooking 20 delicious blueberry pies is clicking a button and then forgetting it.

 

You could upgrade 20 blocks simultaneously with your pies baking and get both xp rewards which would leave your builder friend behind.

 

Ongoing crafting xp— especially those jobs done at workstations simply turn into xp factories for the sake of power leveling when they exist in the game. Since crafting in this game is “click once and forget” it should never have ongoing xp rewards. As it is I think you do get xp the first few times you craft a new recipe. It was like that in A17 but I haven’t noticed if it is still that way or if it applies to workstation crafting.

 

I didn't test workstations in particular. I earn some exp by crafting certain things, but the amount is small enough that it's nothing more than a nice little plus. Upgrading xp is very well balanced, because:

 

1-Encourages building.

2-Needs sweat and active gameplay to achieve.

3-It's similar to killing Zds but it tends to be slower because resources run out and need restocking/crafting.

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I don't think your very personal experience is enough data to backup the fact the game sets you up so that you don't find what you want.

 

That is not what I am saying at all. What I am saying is there is always an item that is not found after an extended play time. Whether it is something I want or not. When I say extended, I mean like by like day 80. If I then go into the creative menu and give that item to my player and save the game. Then I drop that Item on the ground, I will, with out fail, find that item in subsequent loot runs in appropriate containers. It is a QA check that people in the industry use quite often. It is to check if an item being loaded into memory affects the chance it will be found. In this case it does. I have done a lot of video game QA as an actual job. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean the person pointing it out is wrong.

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Too be honest I haven't found leveling any slower than A17. Upgrading blocks gives so much Experience.. I almost don't wanna do it... don't wanna increase my GS too fast. Literally upgrade 1 block and you see a your exp bar move by a chunk....

 

I gain 1-2 levels per day the first 35 days or so, in 17 I'd have 10 perks to buy every night.

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IMO If trader's become killable you should add some sort of way to get T6 stuff(other then in loot), not that it should be eazy at all but atleast it will be there. Maybe a cnc machine that is only found in a factory and it will require a skill to use it. But nonetheless im fine with anything and like you said, we could just mod this stuff in.

 

Balance and feedback on what IS in the game, not what isn't in the game. Lets not turn this thread into pie in the sky talk please. No feature requests and no discussion of features on or off the roadmap, only discussion of actual implemented features you can give feedback on.

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What does this mean?

I see servers with 500% and even 1200% experience but I can't set the experience to that amount in single player.

 

Also side note, half the perks in the game are clearly under powered. The spear and club perks are horrible and mediocre respectively. Everyone thinks the knives and their perks are very weak. The armor perks require too much skill points to work. The flurry of blows is just under powered and doesn't work on heavy and mining tools. The leveling of living off the land is not linear at all.

I feel like there is no need to level after 70 but at the same time I need levels to unlock basic stuff.

In the end if a perk is weak why not just reduce the attribute requirements to lower levels?

 

It means only a 10 year old would want that fast of XP gain. Most players want to slow things down. What use case do you need to be level 20 on day 1?

 

Lets not use words like "everyone" to add false weight to your statements. Clubs are OP, what are you talking about? Spears have so much range you would have to go AFK to actually take damage.

 

No need to level past 70, but you want to get there in 2 hours with 1200% xp?

 

Armor works fantastic without any perks at all, and since it contains crafting tiers at most we could reduce it to 4.

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I haven't made it past level 45 because that's when I feel like I've done everything I can do on that particular map.

 

What about unlocking the other 100 books? You can barely get to rank 5 of your combat perks by then. What about late game horde defense? Level 45 is when it starts to get interesting IMO.

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@madmole, I'm beating a dead horse, but how you feel about adding gas vents as a danger to mining? So the longer you mine and or get deeper, certain parts will have a subtle-hazy view. Another to distinguish them would maybe be, empty parts of a mine? Essentially invisible air pockets set to damage players, though that makes it obvious so I'd go with terrain with a certain hue. These gas vents would pose a danger by 1) have a 20% chance of being triggered to explode by being hit by a tool or gunfire and 2) if you go in without a hazmat suit or some sort of gas mask filter mod, it'll pretty much kill you.

 

Why add gas vents? I feel that it should be simple enough in a way to do so, and it would at least bring some minor risk to mining even though I myself don't want this. Contradictorily I know, but it is a survival game and everything should at least have some risk even if its only a more pest annoyance.

 

No feature requests in this thread. I don't have time for dev diary stuff right now.

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