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Alpha 18 feedback and balancing thread


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The junk turret is OP against animals. Example, use it on a zombie bear, put it down, sit and relax. Zombie dog gets killed in 2,3 shots.

And that is unperked into Turret Syndrom and an unmodded turret.

 

It is mostly the stun effect that is so powerfull and should be tuned down. But I think it should also do less damage to Animals. Or at least against the Zombie Dog

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"Mechanical parts and springs are not craftable"

 

This is a very,very bad move devs. You should make mechanical parts and springs easier to craft and find, not the other way around. There are many items that use mechanical parts and springs used to be expensive as well.

 

The junk turret is OP against animals. Example, use it on a zombie bear, put it down, sit and relax. Zombie dog gets killed in 2,3 shots.

And that is unperked into Turret Syndrom and an unmodded turret.

 

It is mostly the stun effect that is so powerfull and should be tuned down. But I think it should also do less damage to Animals. Or at least against the Zombie Dog

 

I think Junk turret is fine. It's great against single targets but ok against multiple targets. It also requires a lot of skill points to level up unlike melee and ranged weapons.

 

Edit: While we're at it, wouldn't it be better to either get more parts for higher level items?

And even have a perk that gets adds various resources when scrapping items? Not just the parts but also other components like a few duct tapes,mechanical parts and springs too?

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"Mechanical parts and springs are not craftable"

 

This is a very,very bad move devs. You should make mechanical parts and springs easier to craft and find, not the other way around. There are many items that use mechanical parts and springs used to be expensive as well.

Mechanical parts and springs easier to craft and find? In this case, they should be removed. Heck, whenever I see the word easier in this forum, I'm getting a year old. Now I'm 157 but I'm hanging on.

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Agree

 

The Crossbows, blunderbuss, and Hunting rifle (all single shot, auto reload weapons) when fired from ADS mode, lock you into ADS mode, if you dont want to be locked into that you have to cancel the animation.

 

It can become disorientating, and hinders normal movement and view, especially with a scope equipped.

 

MM had said he made a ticket to see if we could get the option to disable auto-ADS. I dont know if that worked out, but the single fire weapons I think should be tested a bit if you dont already know what I mean.

 

From a balancing perspective these weapons are already not the most preferred, the added awkwardness to combat this causes I believe should be looked at.

 

A potential fix would be either a menu option to disable all auto-ADS, or like we used to have, tap RMB to auto-ADS, hold RMB for only manual-ADS with no lock in.

 

I just wanted to agree whole-heartedly/

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I think you have this idea backwards, but with the direction this game is taking (again) it probably does fit.

 

Id rather see the lazy people who want to drop a point make lower quality stuff and those who get off their ass and look for things be rewarded, but hey thats me. I like rewarding work.

 

So which do you think takes more effort? Levelling up specific skills, gaining the tech-base (forge, crucible, skillbooks, ect) then gathering the raw materials (via mining, scavanging, ect) Finally culminating in created the item that you want.

 

Or... opening boxes until you randomly roll the item that you want on the loot table?

 

Relying on pure RNG to get the items you want, at the quality-levels you need is daft.

It's a survival-crafting game. 90% of the loot you find is worthless trash, useful only for breaking down for the parts that you require to actually build something worthwhile. Or for selling, which is basically the same.

 

All the best loot should be craftable only, because crafting top-tier stuff is a culmination of hours of effort.

Finding something in a box is just dumb luck.

 

I'd rather work towards my t6 pump shotgun for multiple in-game weeks, rather than just... happen to find one in a gunsafe somewhere.

 

Maybe if there was a guarantee of something good at the end of a large POI (like the shotgun Messiah factory) then you could repeatedly undertake high-difficulty raids to try to get the thing you want.

 

That's not really possible though, because what is 'good' depends on your build. I could find a t6 steel sledge, sniper-rifle or machete and not care about it at all, but a t6 shotgun or m60 would have me lose my mind.

 

More effort should result in higher rewards, but as is right now though, you've got about as good a chance of finding the thing you want in a two-story gunshop as you do in a huge POI, so your effort might not be rewarded, and your casual looting might result in something incredible.

 

 

Edit: Mechanical parts and springs are already basically not worth crafting. Springs take way too much steel, parts take... duct-tape, I think?

It's much easier to just go out and dismantle cars and beds for them.

Personally, i'm fine with this. If you're one or two short, you can make them if you need to, but if you've ran out completely, then it's time to go out on a wrenching expedition.

 

If you can make everything you need from raw materials, then you don't really need to leave your base.

iron/steel/concrete ect can be pulled out of your basement mine, and used to upgrade your base massively, but to actually build guns or tools, you need to go out and find parts.

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Mechanical parts and springs easier to craft and find? In this case, they should be removed. Heck, whenever I see the word easier in this forum, I'm getting a year old. Now I'm 157 but I'm hanging on.

 

Frankly I feel stupefied by your reply. I don't know what's worse, the devs trying to water down the building element and focus solely on stupid ♥♥♥♥ing looting, or by the very fact you don't like a little complexity in the game.

The game is ALREADY too easy. I want to make it HARDER but more rewarding. I want to focus on building a base instead of looting 24/7. I want to craft a humongous castle and max out the size of the horde just because. It's literally a voxel game and you're treating it like a fortnite PUBG clone.Currently you just max lucky looter and are guaranteed to find ludicrous loot that you normally need singular maxed out perks to find. E.g. you require maximum intelligence to craft an anvil but you can get anvil from schematics with a little bit of looting. I found two cogs and learn n elixirs in a house with max lucky looter which requires expensive and rare ingredients AND a maxed out cooking skill which is ridiculous. Farming has been nerfed time and time again yet I somehow find endless amounts of food everywhere I go. I now can't build steel tools and items because I need to find other tools first. This is completely illogical and stupid. At least allow me to craft those parts which I somehow could craft with iron but am too retarded to craft with steel. Even guns aren't that hard to assemble either.

 

The entire game removes the realistic component instead of adding more. You can somehow harvest human corpses but you can not harvest zombie corpses . You can even zip elements now even though you can't hold the items seperately . You can build farming plots from rotten meat even though that meat should be absolutely infectious . Reality in this game often times contradicts itself .

 

Finally I'm starting to see a pattern here. Where the devs are so bad at this game ,including yourself, that they have to water down the mechanics of the game . I also believe this has started to occur only recently in A17 maybe with the addition of a member who is solely responsible for balancing the game . This person probably has no experience to do this task . And frankly I'll get even more vulgar about it in the future.

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Frankly I feel stupefied by your reply. I don't know what's worse, the devs trying to water down the building element and focus solely on stupid ♥♥♥♥ing looting, or by the very fact you don't like a little complexity in the game.

The game is ALREADY too easy. I want to make it HARDER but more rewarding. I want to focus on building a base instead of looting 24/7. I want to craft a humongous castle and max out the size of the horde just because. It's literally a voxel game and you're treating it like a fortnite PUBG clone.Currently you just max lucky looter and are guaranteed to find ludicrous loot that you normally need singular maxed out perks to find. E.g. you require maximum intelligence to craft an anvil but you can get anvil from schematics with a little bit of looting. I found two cogs and learn n elixirs in a house with max lucky looter which requires expensive and rare ingredients AND a maxed out cooking skill which is ridiculous.

 

Finally I'm starting to see a pattern here. Where the devs are so bad at this game ,including yourself, that they have to water down the mechanics of the game . I also believe this has started to occur only recently in A17 maybe with the addition of a member who is solely responsible for balancing the game . This person probably has no experience to do this task . And frankly I'll get even more vulgar about it in the future.

Your assumptions about how I play after 5000 hours of fun and intensive use of all the mechanics of the game are sadly ridiculous. If you are unable to enjoy the game as it is and, at the same time, unable to mod it in a way that suit you, I can't help you.

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Your assumptions about how I play after 5000 hours of fun and intensive use of all the mechanics of the game are sadly ridiculous. If you are unable to enjoy the game as it is and, at the same time, unable to mod it in a way that suit you, I can't help you.

 

Your 5000 hours lack of knowledge that the drawbridges require huge amounts of springs alone makes me very angry.

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With how easy it is to craft ammo in the mid game. I think ammo found in loot needs to be a lot less. because I got a pistol day one and have never looked back.

 

Why, to force everyone into mining? 18 is about choice and not needing every perk. Same goes with people who think there is too much cement in loot. Not everyone wants to stare at ore for hours at a time. Get to day 200 and tell me how much ammo you are swimming in. You'll probably put loot and harvest on 200% to keep up.

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How does max alive have anything to do with ammo used? I’d use the same ammo killing 100 zombies with 16 alive at a time as I would killing 100 zombies with 24 alive at a time.

 

Disagree. With 16 alive there are more clusters of zombies doing much more group damage, putting urgency to spray and pray vs carefully tap for headshots. Also on late game hordes you'll kill 500 zombies instead of 250, simply because more zeds are always at your base pounding on it doing damage. With only 8 alive you can pretty much kill them before they arrive, have less vultures, less puke, less everything, its a completely different game.

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Disagree. With 16 alive there are more clusters of zombies doing much more group damage, putting urgency to spray and pray vs carefully tap for headshots. Also on late game hordes you'll kill 500 zombies instead of 250, simply because more zeds are always at your base pounding on it doing damage. With only 8 alive you can pretty much kill them before they arrive, have less vultures, less puke, less everything, its a completely different game.

 

I disagree with your disagreement. :)

 

Penetrator + 7.62 ap == less ammo spent for more zombies. Just make them line up which is incredibly easy and there you go. More zombies means less ammo usage unless I am missing something ofc.

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I disagree with your disagreement. :)

 

Penetrator + 7.62 ap == less ammo spent for more zombies. Just make them line up which is incredibly easy and there you go. More zombies means less ammo usage unless I am missing something ofc.

 

I play with 16 zombies enabled. I get through a load of ammo. It seems lots to start with (I don’t tend to mine so looting and buying ammo is my way) it depletes fast but having the option to run and gun caters for my way of playing for early game.

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A17-18 Dev time

Is it just me or the release from experimental to stable to short. i would like to see a longer dev time between experimental to stable less then a month is a way to short. i understand that the team and some players want to see the newer version asap.

 

can we add a few more things to dev timeline so the time from experimental to stable is at least 3-4 months ?. In addition a more user-friendly way to get notified on a new version being released more then a week in advance ie. steam notification. why am i asking this? because i would like to see a more enjoyable and less buggie release of the "stable" version and time to adjust from the the last to new versions. Players want to continue the playthough for a long as possible without getting an update that causes them to start all over again

 

 

I hope this gets read and the it can contributed to future updates

 

I'm still running a save from 2 months before the first XP. If there isn't obvious issues there is no reason to restart. Staying in EXP for months would be pretty unprofessional.

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I disagree with your disagreement. :)

 

Penetrator + 7.62 ap == less ammo spent for more zombies. Just make them line up which is incredibly easy and there you go. More zombies means less ammo usage unless I am missing something ofc.

 

OK, so everyone forced to go Penetrator route just because someone wanted less ammo in loot?

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I support

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Frankly I feel stupefied by your reply. I don't know what's worse, the devs trying to water down the building element and focus solely on stupid ♥♥♥♥ing looting, or by the very fact you don't like a little complexity in the game.

The game is ALREADY too easy. I want to make it HARDER but more rewarding. I want to focus on building a base instead of looting 24/7. I want to craft a humongous castle and max out the size of the horde just because. It's literally a voxel game and you're treating it like a fortnite PUBG clone.Currently you just max lucky looter and are guaranteed to find ludicrous loot that you normally need singular maxed out perks to find. E.g. you require maximum intelligence to craft an anvil but you can get anvil from schematics with a little bit of looting. I found two cogs and learn n elixirs in a house with max lucky looter which requires expensive and rare ingredients AND a maxed out cooking skill which is ridiculous. Farming has been nerfed time and time again yet I somehow find endless amounts of food everywhere I go. I now can't build steel tools and items because I need to find other tools first. This is completely illogical and stupid. At least allow me to craft those parts which I somehow could craft with iron but am too retarded to craft with steel. Even guns aren't that hard to assemble either.

 

The entire game removes the realistic component instead of adding more. You can somehow harvest human corpses but you can not harvest zombie corpses . You can even zip elements now even though you can't hold the items seperately . You can build farming plots from rotten meat even though that meat should be absolutely infectious . Reality in this game often times contradicts itself .

 

Finally I'm starting to see a pattern here. Where the devs are so bad at this game ,including yourself, that they have to water down the mechanics of the game . I also believe this has started to occur only recently in A17 maybe with the addition of a member who is solely responsible for balancing the game . This person probably has no experience to do this task . And frankly I'll get even more vulgar about it in the future.

I support.

I just turned off heatmap for auger/saw, forge,chem,bench in the

sounds.xml

blocks.xml

 

for me, the meaning of the game lies in its name. 6 days a week do not touch me, on the 7th day you are welcome.

why do we need a sandbox, a voxel world, if you can not create/build in it.

for me, the best version of the game is still A16.

 

 

about balance. at the trader, bullet cassings are cheaper than brass.

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I disagree with your disagreement. :)

 

Penetrator + 7.62 ap == less ammo spent for more zombies. Just make them line up which is incredibly easy and there you go. More zombies means less ammo usage unless I am missing something ofc.

 

Do you know if the penetrator perk works with junk turrets?

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OK, so everyone forced to go Penetrator route just because someone wanted less ammo in loot?

 

It is called minmaxing. If you want to go a certain (non-optimal) route that is your play style and that is fine. If you want to say there is too little certain thing when doing a certain route then there is a problem. Buffing/nerfing a thing or things to suit a certain play style cascades to other play styles and most probable result will be your desired style feels fine and balanced while some other style now becomes most optimal and some decent styles go to ♥♥♥♥.

At this point with so many variables it is nearly impossible to balance all styles and nature of humans is to go the path of least resistance. This is especially noticed in multiplayer where a lot of stuff is totally out of wack, but for pve it is totally fine.

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Think you may be onto something. The difference between finding the schematic and/or perking into a weapon is that the perk allows you to craft a better quality item but the schematic allows you to craft the weapon/tool parts while both allow you to craft the weapon/tool.

 

I would also love to see more street lights in the cities, and have q to repair and restart the power plant, which would result in streetlights working at night.

 

Or after repairing and clearing waterworks, you can use water bottles on sinks to fill them with clean water.

 

 

The quest to clear and fetch supplies are boring. Id love to see a rebuilding quests, where if you complete it, it has some effects on landscape around you and provide you some kind of perk. So As you clear out a city, you get real feeling of actually rebuilding. In time, once NPCs are in game, with finished quest and city infrastracture repaired (power, water etc.) instead of zombies, you get survivor spawning, with which you can trade, some of them occasionally having rare items to sell from their scavanging trips.

 

Everything could start with small trader post PoI that would be inside every city, and as you complete quests and advance to higher gamestages, it grows and becomes a true survivor sanctuary with many NPCs.

 

Once the city is liberated from undead, bandits will take notice and start raiding it. Instead of zombie hordes, you get bandit hordes

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It is called minmaxing. If you want to go a certain (non-optimal) route that is your play style and that is fine. If you want to say there is too little certain thing when doing a certain route then there is a problem. Buffing/nerfing a thing or things to suit a certain play style cascades to other play styles and most probable result will be your desired style feels fine and balanced while some other style now becomes most optimal and some decent styles go to ♥♥♥♥.

At this point with so many variables it is nearly impossible to balance all styles and nature of humans is to go the path of least resistance. This is especially noticed in multiplayer where a lot of stuff is totally out of wack, but for pve it is totally fine.

Or just leave a good amount of ammo in loot like it is.

Half of it comes from ammo piles. If someone has too much ammo, then stop looting the ammo piles. Common sense.

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Since Twigg said that was the intended design, I'll post this here - Mining/firefighter helmets should definitely have light w/o mods. There is little point at getting a mining/ff helmet when you get a mod which you can install at any helmet.

 

Doesn't this make more sense for a smoother progression?

 

Torch - got to switch.

Flashlight - better light, still got to switch.

Mining/ff helmet - equipped light, but on a mediocre helmet.

Helmet light mod - equpped light, on any helmet you want.

Renaming the mining helmet to hard hat or safety helmet would fix the confusion I think.

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It's tough to qualify what is a 'balance' issue. But, end game is lacking in fear and reason. I felt I had some ideas that might balance the end game experience and retain that 'fear' you have in the early days of a game.

 

- Ever increasing zombie difficulty

- Zombies failing to continue red night

- More Wandering hordes

- PermaDeath

 

Long wordy explanations:

 

First let me say I love the game. We just wiped our server so we could play low levels again. Low levels are hands down the part of the game me and my friends love the best. Once you reach that 'turning point' where you need nothing, and nothing scares you, its allure fizzles.

 

Example. myself and a friend built a giant base that took some damage from the Destroyers on red night, but nothing that was scary. Still Red Night was entertaining. However at level 80 we were pretty much invulnerable unless we purposefully did crazy crap like pull the roof of a Shotgun Messiah at night, with everything at Nightmare and at Level 5. We even set day time zombies to Nightmare. Murdering stuff is fun, but the fear was gone. The struggle to get food going in the garden, or to find a darn beaker, or the terror your base would be too wobbly to stand an assault was gone.

 

What I would like to see is an ever increasing Zombie difficulty. 'Level 5' just isn't enough once you are geared. I realize we can increase Zombie block damage, but as previously mentioned, Red Night is fun, and spending a huge amount of time simply collecting resources to replace things and patch holes gets old too.

 

The Zombies could be more thorough. I had an instance where I lagged off my base into the horde during red night. There wasn't a way back in, so I took off for a mine I had dug nearby. They caught me in the mine and killed me, and 'poof' red night was over. There was another player in the base. They should continue to destroy everything in sight until there is nothing left but rubble, or they have been dispatched.

 

A config setting to increase the frequency and number of Zombies in wandering hordes? (Currently we run towards them when we see one - it's just some experience points).

 

The last thing, which is probably unrealistic, is an option for PermaDeath when you die. Some deaths are lag related, or cat jumping on your keyboard deaths. But some deaths happen because you got in too deep, or simply got killed by the Zeds. Having a pop up with the option of self PermaDeath would be awesome. Being forced to start over would add a great deal of longevity especially when multiple people are working together. I.E. loose your miner, or your scientist?

 

My 2 cents. Have a great day everyone :-)

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