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Alpha 18 feedback and balancing thread

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Hello!

Regarding the blood moon. I'm not sure what the other players thought about this, but I didn't like it the infinite amount of zombies that come. Before I had to make a base to survive and kill zombies. Now i just have to endure it, since zombies won't stop coming until it is over. I think having a set amount of zombies for each blood moon would be better, and I would feel that each wave is indeed getting harder. I feel like the difficulty of waves only change because of the types of zombies.

 

It's not infinite. There's three waves. Each wave will start when the previous one is over, or at 10pm, midnight and 2am respectively, whichever comes first. Press F1 to look at the console, and you'll see a message whenever a zombie spawns saying which wave it belongs to, what's it's number in that wave, how many zombies there are in that wave, and how many zombies can be active simultaneously in that wave.

 

The default setting of 8 simultaneous zombies is not enough to exhaust hordes before morning comes, however. But, as a practical example, Kage848 (an youtuber) last horde night was day 35, and he has either 12 or 16 simultaneous zombies, and his horde night was over by 2am.

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TFP want us to get out and loot more, instead of staying in the base crafting. So this is by design, and I doubt our opinions will change their minds about the crafting and looting aspects. As far as the farm goes (I may be incorrect) hitting the plant to harvest instead of the 'use' key changed due to the lag caused by the old method of farming. Previously the game recalculated stability (I think) when the plants were harvested and it resulted in quite a bit of lag, especially in multiplayer servers. As far as blood moon horde is concerned... it's heavily based on gamestage, but you can change how many BM zombies are spawned at once in the settings if you think it's too much. I usually have my BM spawns and running speeds turned down because my computer gets low FPS (Side note, since the latest experimental 18.4 dropped I have reached 30+ fps and I haven't seen that good of a performance since A16 ended.)

 

Not just that but there are perks that improve harvest yields. Using E to harvest would probably break that mechanic.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Side note:

 

I think if the executioner perk was buffed to effect electrical fences in some way I think it would make it more desirable. (E.G. more durabilty, longer stun?)

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With maxed perks in Agility including all pistol perks and the pistol books all read, a 44 magnum still can't take on an AK with half the perks. These weapons should be brought more into balance. I could understand a magnum not taking on a fully perked AK, but it can't even take low perk ak's and m60s.

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Just have to say: THANK YOU!! for spectator mode in 18.4

 

This is making admin life sooooooo much easier (and more fun). Really 100% thumbs up!

 

Cheers

Edited by Prisma501 (see edit history)

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Changing time, which now also recalculates bloodmoon, does not change trader reset days. Would probably be decent if it recalculated that as well.

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Here's some late feedback, on the modlet support and, unrelated, electricity:

 

I suggest adding an optional 'if="<xpath>"' attribute to all elements (append, insertAfter, etc), which will apply that change only if the xpath exists. That will help people make modlets that support multiple 7d2d versions and/or integrate with other mods without spewing warnings all over the logs.

 

Another thing that would be very useful would be a "copy" attribute. I imagine it being used like this:

 

<configs>
 <append xpath="/blocks" copy="/blocks/block[@name='vaultHatch_v3_Powered']" />
 <set xpath="//block[@name='vaultHatch_v3_Powered'][2]/@name">scrapHatch_v3_Powered</set>
 <!-- etc -->
</configs>

 

And, on the topic of electricity blocks, is there anything work being done? One thing I dearly miss is the ability to invert open/close on the new powered blocks. For example, I'd much rather have the drawbridge close if zombies are seen than open when it sees me, as it avoid issues with LoS being cut by the drawbridge animation, and the inconvenient "close" animation that happens if one sensor turns off, even if other chained sensors are still on.

 

At that, it would be really nice if no "off" action happened if one sensor turned off while there's still a sensor on in the chain.

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It's not infinite. There's three waves. Each wave will start when the previous one is over, or at 10pm, midnight and 2am respectively, whichever comes first. Press F1 to look at the console, and you'll see a message whenever a zombie spawns saying which wave it belongs to, what's it's number in that wave, how many zombies there are in that wave, and how many zombies can be active simultaneously in that wave.

 

The default setting of 8 simultaneous zombies is not enough to exhaust hordes before morning comes, however. But, as a practical example, Kage848 (an youtuber) last horde night was day 35, and he has either 12 or 16 simultaneous zombies, and his horde night was over by 2am.

 

Keep in mind the fact that Kage plays on 90/120 minutes days. (cant recall which one, but its not the default 60 minutes days)

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Keep in mind the fact that Kage plays on 90/120 minutes days. (cant recall which one, but its not the default 60 minutes days)

 

90, which gives him more time to kill the zombies, but doesn't make zombies less numerous.

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90, which gives him more time to kill the zombies, but doesn't make zombies less numerous.

 

But it would directly affect the time his horde night was over. This was what was being discussed when his day length settings were mentioned.

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But it would directly affect the time his horde night was over. This was what was being discussed when his day length settings were mentioned.

 

No, it was about hordes being infinite. Hordes are not infinite, as can be seen on Kage's video. The length of his day does not change the fact that there were a finite number of zombies in the horde.

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No, it was about hordes being infinite. Hordes are not infinite, as can be seen on Kage's video. The length of his day does not change the fact that there were a finite number of zombies in the horde.

 

Maybe I'm remembering a different conversation. I thought it was just about they were over too early. My bad.

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No, it was about hordes being infinite. Hordes are not infinite, as can be seen on Kage's video. The length of his day does not change the fact that there were a finite number of zombies in the horde.

 

Nope, I commmented on his day length to point out that his horde nights end up earlier because he has more time to kill zombies than default settings. So if his horde night ended at 2 am, it would've ended by 4 am were him running default settings. And he amped up the number of zombies to 12, I believe, because he had previously lowered them to 6 or 8 and got disappointed (duh!) it was too easy. Kage is a drama queen, regardless. If you wanna give a proper example of youtuber playing 7DtD, go for Glock9

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Nope, I commmented on his day length to point out that his horde nights end up earlier because he has more time to kill zombies than default settings. So if his horde night ended at 2 am, it would've ended by 4 am were him running default settings. And he amped up the number of zombies to 12, I believe, because he had previously lowered them to 6 or 8 and got disappointed (duh!) it was too easy. Kage is a drama queen, regardless. If you wanna give a proper example of youtuber playing 7DtD, go for Glock9

 

If you mean that horde night actually ended at 2 am, no, that doesn't happen. The amount of time a horde night lasts is given in in-game time, and 6 hours is the minimum. 90 or 120 real time minutes has no influence on that.

 

Regardless of that, you were replying to a comment of mine on someone else's post. That person stated zombie hordes were infinite, and I was giving a counter example, so if you were talking about something else... that wasn't the point.

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I think you two are trying to convince each other that hordes are in fact finite. LOL

(spoiler alert: they are)

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For me balance means letting the player's progress match the amount of effort put into the game.

 

This of course is subjective ... and I do find that currently there is a nice grind required for most things. But even so I find that I can progress a little too quickly to higher level stuff ("stuff" is the correct technical term)

 

So with that in mind my only real criticism is around "repairs".

 

Finding a gun early on opens a lot of doors. Too many perhaps. So my suggestion is that a player should only be able to repair that which they are able to craft, and the repair should require something more specific. Guns should require gun parts to repair, military armor should require military fibre, and so on.

 

The challenge for TFP is of course finding the point where the grind becomes boring... Nobody wants to play a game where weeks and weeks of grinding becomes too repetitive. I personally think it is not bad as it stands. People stay engrossed with the game and become long term players. New players progress fast enough to not give up right away.

 

So how much imbalance is there? Not too much, but as I said on default difficulty the progress is perhaps slightly too fast.

 

FWIW - I don't play PVP and would never play a game where new players with no skill and low level are directly pitted against advanced high level players. So I firstly don't think 7dtd is PvP friendly and secondly my above post relates specificly to survival / solo / co-operative play, not PvP.

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If you mean that horde night actually ended at 2 am, no, that doesn't happen. The amount of time a horde night lasts is given in in-game time, and 6 hours is the minimum. 90 or 120 real time minutes has no influence on that.

 

Regardless of that, you were replying to a comment of mine on someone else's post. That person stated zombie hordes were infinite, and I was giving a counter example, so if you were talking about something else... that wasn't the point.

 

Not true on (headless) servers, AFAIK

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)

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Not true on (headless) servers, AFAIK

 

If you mean the minimum, yeah, servers can set a lot of things not possible on single player. If you mean the duration of the night is not set in in-game time, then report it as a bug:

 

<property name="DayLightLength" value="18" />  <!-- in game hours the sun shines per day: 18 hours day light per in game day -->

Edited by dcsobral
tabs to space (see edit history)

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Hello! The AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT have issues of artifacts and freezes the PC when playing 7 Days To Die!

Have some reports here:

1. https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?127932-Graphical-artifacts

2. https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?125210-Radeon-RX-5700-XT-Graphic-Artifacts

3. https://steamcommunity.com/app/251570/discussions/1/1755771809255087408/

 

And even more on reddit and other websites...

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For me balance means letting the player's progress match the amount of effort put into the game.

 

This of course is subjective ... and I do find that currently there is a nice grind required for most things. But even so I find that I can progress a little too quickly to higher level stuff ("stuff" is the correct technical term)

 

So with that in mind my only real criticism is around "repairs".

 

Finding a gun early on opens a lot of doors. Too many perhaps. So my suggestion is that a player should only be able to repair that which they are able to craft, and the repair should require something more specific. Guns should require gun parts to repair, military armor should require military fibre, and so on.

 

The challenge for TFP is of course finding the point where the grind becomes boring... Nobody wants to play a game where weeks and weeks of grinding becomes too repetitive. I personally think it is not bad as it stands. People stay engrossed with the game and become long term players. New players progress fast enough to not give up right away.

 

So how much imbalance is there? Not too much, but as I said on default difficulty the progress is perhaps slightly too fast.

 

FWIW - I don't play PVP and would never play a game where new players with no skill and low level are directly pitted against advanced high level players. So I firstly don't think 7dtd is PvP friendly and secondly my above post relates specificly to survival / solo / co-operative play, not PvP.

 

Something like a progression slider would be good.

One that determines how fast the quality of items links to the gamestage.

(Finding guns early on, or blocking guns and other late game items from the loot table in the early game)

 

So the players can set how fast they want to progress in the game related to the types of items in the loot.

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There is an issue with posting privileges in the News and Announcements forum that we are working on getting resolved.

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I've seen at least one person remark that the Wasteland Treasures completion reward is underwhelming. Well, it is. First, you probably have found the schematic for military fiber by the time you complete the book set, and it's really cheap to make. Second, traders have it often and it's cheap enough. Third, by the time you complete a book set, you have a vehicle, so heavy armor isn't that much of a deal, and you may well have looted all the armor you are going to need.

 

Here are two alternative completion rewards that make sense in the context of what this book set gives:

 

* Scraping gives you 100% instead of 75% of the material.

* Scrap things faster.

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One of the saddest limitations of 7d2d is that crafting is very single-pathed. Recipes can be locked, but you can't have one recipe be locked, and another not. You don't craft "recipes", you craft "items", so it's always one kind of thing, and the game is very uninformative when it comes to quantities. You always craft at the same quality, and there's no chance involved: either you can craft it, or you can't.

 

I wish crafting went from items/blocks to recipes. You craft a pumpkin cheesecake recipe, not a pumpkin cheesecake. That would make many interesting things possible:

 

* Unlock better recipes separately; e.g. "campfire glue" is unlocked, but the cheaper "chem station glue" needs schematic.

* Multiple outputs: "Dismantle 9mm recipe" has as ingredient a 9mm bullet, and produces bullet casing, bullet tip and gunpowder.

* Chances: give recipes a chance of succeeding, and make perks increase that chance.

* Failure results: make stuff happen when failing. Poisoned food, very slow motorcycle, explosions...

 

It pains me so much to see incremental improvements on crafting, when the current way you craft (an item, instead of a recipe) is so limiting. :(

 

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One of the saddest limitations of 7d2d is that crafting is very single-pathed. Recipes can be locked, but you can't have one recipe be locked, and another not. You don't craft "recipes", you craft "items", so it's always one kind of thing, and the game is very uninformative when it comes to quantities. You always craft at the same quality, and there's no chance involved: either you can craft it, or you can't.

 

I wish crafting went from items/blocks to recipes. You craft a pumpkin cheesecake recipe, not a pumpkin cheesecake. That would make many interesting things possible:

 

* Unlock better recipes separately; e.g. "campfire glue" is unlocked, but the cheaper "chem station glue" needs schematic.

* Multiple outputs: "Dismantle 9mm recipe" has as ingredient a 9mm bullet, and produces bullet casing, bullet tip and gunpowder.

* Chances: give recipes a chance of succeeding, and make perks increase that chance.

* Failure results: make stuff happen when failing. Poisoned food, very slow motorcycle, explosions...

 

It pains me so much to see incremental improvements on crafting, when the current way you craft (an item, instead of a recipe) is so limiting. :(

 

Sounds overcomplicated and like a pain in the ass.

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