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Retiredbart

Anyone else think this version is a big pile of stinking Krap?

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This is the first alpha that I have literally stopped mid game and just said " I have no reason to keep playing" you can tout how high and mighty this alpha is, but if this is TFP vision, then they have visions of garbage.

 

Recent steam reviews reflect this pretty well also

 

I am genuinely curious... what exactly makes it garbage?

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I specifically said "big glob of ore" - not "big veins".

 

I also don't like the surface ore deposits as they are currently implemented. Even if they could be sunk into the earth half-way I would like them tremendously more. I preferred the earlier surface ore implementation that were just jagged mounds. I'm also hoping they redistribute things a bit better. Too much lead.

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[table=width: 250, class: grid, align: left]

[tr]

[td]A17 Default[/td]

[td]A18 Default[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Nomad[/td]

[td]Adventurer[/td]

[/tr]

[/table]

 

I find the new weapon values work well with Adventurer for not making the zombies feel tanky but also not too easily killable. Obviously for "feels right" as far as how easy or difficult it is to kill a zombie, things need to be tuned in to the default game mode which they are quite nicely, imo. With each deviation to the plus side of default you go, the zombies are going to feel more and more tankish especially versus primitive gear in the early game.

 

So my question to you is are you playing default difficulty and having a tough time with the balance of weapons vs zombie health or are you playing a more difficult option and complaining about it? Because if it's the latter......don't play higher difficulty if you don't like it.

I'm still playing Nomad, as I always have.

 

But, I don't believe default difficulty is relevant to that topic though, because the modifiers didn't change so I'm still comparing across the board. In other words, it's not as if "Adventurer is the new nomad, because they made Nomad harde," the Nomad Game Difficulty Value is still 1.5, Adventurer is still 1.2 etc.

 

In my opinion, what it comes down to is, the same weapon, against the same enemy, with the same life, on the same difficulty, with the same modifiers... now takes longer and more hits. Ergo, you've increased the "difficulty". Or, more accurately, slowed progress.

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I specifically said "big glob of ore" - not "big veins". Vocabulary FTW.

 

Regarding my comment about realism - there's a difference imo between sacrificing some of it for the outright necessity of maintaining enjoyment (no, you probably don't want to have to learn about electric schematics and the engineering of a differential in order to make your 4x4. But actually having to mine to find your metals, etc.... Well, I think that's fairly reasonable. Hyperbole has a time/place in comparisons, and I think you greatly missed it there.

 

"Don't complain now cause you didn't then," is beyond imbecilic. That's like saying, "You drove drunk when you were a teenager, so you shouldn't tell your kids not to". (Note: that's proper use of hyperbole).

 

2) No, I would rather have predominant control of my character's design, rather than my control being an afterthought, second to random number generators.

3) See above statement regarding wanting to control my character's by choice rather than by luck.

5) I guess more context is definitely in order on this. I've typically played 30 minute days. In those situations, the days are not so long as to warrant anything really bigger than a minibike. Go somewhere, loot a couple POI (which typically fit in my minibike & inventory with very little encumberance.

6) Your apology is accepted.

 

What I meant was they already had these ore indicators in A16 and A16 mining was generally well-liked. A17's mining took getting used to. You talked as if this was completely something new but it was already in the game before.

 

2) IMO the new system is much better than A17 system. I seriously doubt they'll redo the system in A18. If you don't like it, try playing with mods.

5) That's fine. Your game. Play however you like.

6) Yep. The new ore textures make mining SO much easier.

 

Obviously, A18 is still in experimental so anything can change.

 

Oh yeah, you're starting to get personal...stop it.

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I'm still playing Nomad, as I always have.

 

But, I don't believe default difficulty is relevant to that topic though, because the modifiers didn't change so I'm still comparing across the board. In other words, it's not as if "Adventurer is the new nomad, because they made Nomad harde," the Nomad Game Difficulty Value is still 1.5, Adventurer is still 1.2 etc.

 

In my opinion, what it comes down to is, the same weapon, against the same enemy, with the same life, on the same difficulty, with the same modifiers... now takes longer and more hits. Ergo, you've increased the "difficulty". Or, more accurately, slowed progress.

 

The fact that they stayed the same IS my point. The old weapon values vs Adventurer would've made it too easy to be the default difficulty mode for a gritty gamer's game like this one. The reduction in weapon damage dealing makes Adventurer feel like an average difficulty level rather than just plain easy like it used to be. Of course Nomad now feels a bit more difficult than it used to as you have pointed out...It IS now the +1 difficulty mode.

 

You are saying exactly what I was saying-- that nomad feels like it takes longer because zombies require more hits with primitive weapons and that is exactly how I used to feel when I would play a game in Warrior which was the old +1.

 

You should try a new game on Adventurer and see how the primitive weapons feel. To me, they feel right-- very close to how the default version of 7 days has always felt. You've always played on Nomad and so had I for the most part other than dabbling with Warrior from time to time. But now Nomad is +1 difficulty and you can complain about how +1 difficulty feels or you can play the new default and see how that feels.

Edited by Roland (see edit history)

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I gave A17 a huge amount of ♥♥♥♥ to the point me and Roland even went at it over it. It was dark times for some of us, but sorry OP, im enjoying Vanilla 18 a lot longer than I did 17.

 

Is it perfect? For a modder nothing is ever perfect but for Vanilla? Its damn awesome and made me a Pimps fan again after having some doubts through 17.

 

Im usually pretty negative but 18 has me in a good mood and I can not find too much to be negative over. Sure I have balance preference but everyone has those.

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Im usually pretty negative but 18 has me in a good mood and I can not find too much to be negative over.

 

Quoting this, for posterity if nothing else. ;-)

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Not only that, on my old potato of a machine (940M) I can actually play a18 on 1920x1080, low settings but even on that it looks fantastic compared to 16/17. 17 wouldn't even run higher that 10fps, so to me - best alpha yet as I can actually play and enjoy it! :)

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Honestly, this is sort of bull♥♥♥♥ that TFP fed you, that we all gullibly gobble down just because you don't actually see the word "level" involved... A little looking shows that the level-gating is actually still pretty much there, just incredibly hidden.

 

Realistically? With the steep stat-gates for many fairly fundamental aspects of gameplay, the increased tankiness of enemies, and the 300% faster "per level" increase to exp requirements, you're still needing to invest as much time to open anything fairly advanced. In my opinion, most people just don't see it because they're not actually seeing the word level.

 

Hypothetically speaking, if before, you needed Level 25 (which required 250,000 experience), but now you only need 14 skill points which also takes 250,000 experience to get)... you really didn't gain anything.

 

You are right things are still pretty much level gated just in a different way. But the way it is set up feels almost about right with a little more balancing done. What is it you want to do? Just freely buy into steel on day one? Or buy into 4x4 on day one? If that is the case I would agree with others and say mod it. And yes you can turn that around I know but unless it is something that TFP want to do and or they change it for the majority then right now you are on the side of the fence that isn't how it is currently is and also not the majority wants. So in this specific situation you are goin to have to mod it not the other way. Anyway things feel almost right where they should be and maybe it will be different and or feel even more right when other things get added down the road like A19 or something. For me and I have played for a long time this is one of my favorite alphas so far. Of course that is just my opinion.

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Sorry OP, but A18 rocks, and beats all prior Alphas into a bloody stain on the floor.

 

A shame you're not enjoying it, but A18 is where I found I can really see TFP's vision coming together for making a great game in all aspects, where previous Alphas had some elements of hit and miss to them.

 

Woah there. A18 is better than A17, but then anything would be. Still think - apart from graphics - A16 was better.

LBD FTW!

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Gyrocopter has always been trash. Hard to steer, hard to lift off, hit the wrong button and fall to your death. It's just dumb. Maybe, if you could take off vertical, hover, and land vertical it would be worth the effort.

 

It just takes practise. I used it constantly late game in A17 and really enjoyed doing so, though we modded its speed to 20, otherwise it's slower than all other vehicles, which is dumb.

 

I'm SOOOOO glad snowberries have been basically removed. Gawd they were dumb

 

Er....they are still in the game, just rarer.

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A18 is amazing, I wasn't into a17 nearly as much as I am into a18. I wasn't a fan of the small book buffs, I much prefer this re-invented old system.

It just feels like everything is really on point this time, especially spawn entry and rwg (for me at least)

Praise be to the Fun Pimps

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Woah there. A18 is better than A17, but then anything would be. Still think - apart from graphics - A16 was better.

LBD FTW!

 

For me, A16's mechanics (all of them) but with the new content things added in A17 (prefabs, vehicles etc) and the return of surface boulder mining would result in the perfect version.

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I really like the skill versus book separation of getting the ability to make items.

 

Either get a bit lucky to get the book or jsut buy it. It is a nice trade-off and again the bookstores are well worth raiding ASAP. I missed that in A17.

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Why? Mining is TONS easier now when you know where the resources are. I collected 10 stacks of iron + 6 stacks of nitrate just in 10 hours mining using an auger. At that site there is still tons of iron/nitrate laying around. At another site I collected 4 stacks of coal in a few hours. You said mining was boring before and that you preferred going around mining the surface boulder. I think traveling around just to find surface boulders is WAY more boring (takes longer) then staying in one spot and mining. You get way more resources through mining.

 

With surface boulder mining you are always moving around and opening the map, encountering things, discovering POIs and popping in to loot them and so on. It's a mini-adventure. In A18 I spend an entire day down a hole staring at a rockface and encountering nothing more interesting than the odd cave-in. No comparison.

 

True you gain more ore in A18 ( guesstimate about 50% more than a day's boulder mining used to give) but with the unbalanced MP gamestage you burn a ton more of those resource so it works out about the same. I still spend 2.5 to 3 days in every 7 on average mining to get enough gunpowder and lead for the group, except now I have 3 days spent in a goddam hole of boredom instead of 3 days driving across unknown areas of the map for boulders and having adventures.

 

If you can't see the difference in fun factor between 3 days boulder mining while having random adventures and 3 days down a hole then I don't know what to tell you.

 

Are you complaining because now MP isn't as easy anymore? Now you have to use more bullets? How about using traps, turrets, grenades, explosives, etc. Or how about using tactics/strategies? I found the molotov, pipe bombs and grenades are very useful. Learn how to group them up and aoe them.

 

Doing all that. 24 blade traps in 2 separate linked kill boxes. Still using double the ammo we used to. [Edit: only in MP co-op, SP is fine. This is an important point, see below]

 

If your base is being destroyed easily it means you're relying on your previous A17 knowledge.

 

Only our stop-gap living base that we always erect while we build the main kill base was destroyed.

 

A18 is a whole another ballgame and you should adjust/adapt accordingly.

 

Have you not listened? I have 2 games on the go right now, one single player, one multiplayer. Both are roughly on the same day (33). Settings were identical. My build plan is identical in both....live in a concrete box with simple defences while the proper kill base is built. Obviously we get the main base finished quicker in MP as we have more hands to build it, but typically the temp base handles 3 to 4 horde nights and always has.

 

There is no comparison now in A18. My SP game is a walk in the park. I need to stress that. I didn't need to adjust or adapt from A17 tactics at all; everything going as planned and expected in single player; no complaints (except the mining). MP game....totally different story. Unbalanced combined gamestage is resulting in massively more ammo needed and destruction of temp base.

 

Sorry your argument of A18 sucks because they removed surface boulders as a source of resources and made MP harder isn't convincing.

 

Hopefully I've clarified things for you.

Edited by Ghostlight (see edit history)

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I mean you still have plenty of surface boulder ore. You could still mine the same way. Just drive around kill all the surface ore, just leave a couple wood frames in place of the boulder if you want to keep the marker of the vein there.

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With surface boulder mining you are always moving around and opening the map, encountering things, discovering POIs and popping in to loot them and so on. It's a mini-adventure. In A18 I spend an entire day down a hole staring at a rockface and encountering nothing more interesting than the odd cave-in. No comparison.

 

True you gain more ore in A18 ( guesstimate about 50% more than a day's boulder mining used to give) but with the unbalanced MP gamestage you burn a ton more of those resource so it works out about the same. I still spend 2.5 to 3 days in every 7 on average mining to get enough gunpowder and lead for the group, except now I have 3 days spent in a goddam hole of boredom instead of 3 days driving across unknown areas of the map for boulders and having adventures.

 

 

 

Doing all that. 24 blade traps in 2 separate linked kill boxes. Still using double the ammo we used to.

 

 

 

Only our stop-gap living base that we always erect while we build the main kill base was destroyed.

 

 

 

Have you not listened? I have 2 games on the go right now, one single player, one multiplayer. Both are roughly on the same day (33). Settings are identical. My build plan is identical in both....live in a concrete box with simple defences while the proper kill base is built. Obviously we get the main base finished quicker in MP as we have more hands to build it, but typically the temp base does 3 to 4 horde nights and always has.

 

There is no comparison. SP game is a walk in the park. I didn't need to adjust or adapt from A17 tactics at all; everything going as planned and expected. MP game....totally different story. Unbalanced combined gamestage is resulting in massively more ammo needed and destruction of temp base.

 

 

 

Hopefully I've clarified things for you.

 

Why does your group not help with mining? Why work so hard on a base early on when there are so many throwaway POIs? I recommend getting out and trying to get some books and gear that make mining go much more quickly than whacking away with an iron pickaxe. If everyone pitches in and sells to the trader, you can buy much of your ammo for the first few weeks. I didn't focus into mining until much later and still had enough resources to equip a group of 4-5 who had less time to play than I did leading up to hoards. And if it's real bad, just separate until you can handle the resources required for that gamestage. It's easy to fortify a few different sturdy POI's to use separately until you are all equipped. While I may agree that the gamestage may compound a bit too much when grouped, there is nothing forcing you to stick to tactics that just aren't working to deal with it.

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Why does your group not help with mining?

 

Because I have specialised into Strength and have Miner69er and Mother Lode at 5. No one else has as they do different jobs. Also everyone else hates mining.

 

Why work so hard on a base early on when there are so many throwaway POIs?

 

Because we are min-maxers and have our construction order perfected from temp base right up to kill base. 2000+ hours with the same group perfecting everything. We get our perfect kill fortess in Steel just after day 30 (a little later in SP). We are really good at it.

 

I recommend getting out and trying to get some books and gear that make mining go much more quickly than whacking away with an iron pickaxe.

 

We have looter specialists. I have all but 1 Mining book and a tier 5 Steel Pick.

 

If everyone pitches in and sells to the trader, you can buy much of your ammo for the first few weeks.

 

Don't you think we are doing that? We have a barter specialist too.

 

While I may agree that the gamestage may compound a bit too much when grouped, there is nothing forcing you to stick to tactics that just aren't working to deal with it.

 

Working fine in SP, as they always have. It's the balance I'm complaining about. MP is over-tuned for horde night. Both MP and SP are under-tuned (no threat whatsoever) outside of horde night.

Edited by Ghostlight (see edit history)

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Working fine in SP, as they always have. It's the balance I'm complaining about.

 

And simply editing the XML's to enable the surface boulders to drop coal, nitrate, lead and iron isn't an option?

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There are considerably less boulders too. And not clumped in big boulder fields like they used to be.

 

Well, on your next map, you could not only mod them to drop all the ores (and anything else you'd like to), but amend the biomes.xml file to make 'em spawn every second block if you want....

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Because I have specialised into Strength and have Miner69er and Mother Lode at 5. No one else has as they do different jobs.

 

 

 

Because we are min-maxers and have our construction order perfected from temp base right up to kill base. 2000+ hours with the same group perfecting everything. We get our perfect kill fortess in Steel just after day 30 (a little later in SP). We are really good at it.

 

 

 

We have looter specialists. I have all but 1 Mining book and a tier 5 Steel Pick.

 

 

 

Don't you think we are doing that? We have a barter specialist too.

 

 

 

Working fine in SP, as they always have. It's the balance I'm complaining about.

 

My first question was rhetorical and I knew the answer would be perks, but I just don't get it in a game like this. I fully understand optimal play and min-maxing. I used to play a game that allowed you a limited number of turns per day and playing that optimally was challenging and a blast(had an Excel workbook with a dozen different pages of spaded data and projections/odds/calculations), but EVERYTHING in this game is infinite. You won't deplete the world of anything just by not perking into looting or mining and you can still gather plenty of resources to supplement your specialized member without the perks. Fine that you all have your roles, but if it's not working, you have so many options from editing XMLs to just maybe not being so stubborn and min-maxy. If you aren't enjoying being the miner, then tell your friends to get off their asses and give you a hand? Or literally change the game by editing the files to make it work for the strategy you're committed to.

 

As far as something being perfected, fine. You may have perfected something for the last alpha, but this is a work in progress you're playing. Half the fun for me each version is adjusting and it makes it like a new game each time they update. Is it really fun to make the same base by the same day with every member doing the same thing every single playthrough?

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As far as something being perfected, fine. You may have perfected something for the last alpha, but this is a work in progress you're playing.

 

The proven strat is working as always in SP, no adjustment needed. In MP the balance is off. Why should they be so different?

 

Is it really fun to make the same base by the same day with every member doing the same thing every single playthrough?

 

It is now that we perfected it over many hours and many alphas. The kill base is perfected too and handles all AI algorithms they threw at us from the old random dumb zombies to hyper-intelligent demolition expert zombies that avoid traps and home in on weak blocks. The design is awesome (was actually planned on grid paper) And we have never exploited the AI and never will.

 

I used to play a game that allowed you a limited number of turns per day and playing that optimally was challenging and a blast(had an Excel workbook with a dozen different pages of spaded data and projections/odds/calculations)

 

You'd fit right in with my group. ;P

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There wont be a next map I fear. Is there a way to modify the files and affect the map in progress?

 

No, but you could make all the stone blocks in the world work the way the boulders used to. Or if you're feeling claustrophobic, make the cinder block piles like those boulders and you can explore the wasteland.

 

It is now that we perfected it over many hours and many alphas. The kill base is perfected too and handles all AI algorithms they threw at us from the old random dumb zombies to hyper-intelligent demolition expert zombies that avoid traps and home in on weak blocks. The design is awesome (was actually planned on grid paper) And we have never exploited the AI and never will.

 

Fair enough. I am really asking to try to help because I feel for you if you're not having fun playing. Sandbox games can get a little grindy and feel like work sometimes. What do you all plan to do once bandits are implemented?

Edited by andrough (see edit history)

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