quyxkh Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 Seriously, I just said it that way to wind you up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tricorius Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 Heh. Well, to be honest, I'm curious as to the reasoning behind removing craftable T6 items. (I admit that I didn't look too long on the forums to find a thread though; but it is annoying.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teal Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 Heh. Well, to be honest, I'm curious as to the reasoning behind removing craftable T6 items. (I admit that I didn't look too long on the forums to find a thread though; but it is annoying.) It was originally like this in earlier a18 branches, then they changed it back in b149 and back again in 152. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.C. Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 It was originally like this in earlier a18 branches, then they changed it back in b149 and back again in 152. That's not what they did, actually. You can still craft Q2 items at 1 skill point, Q3 at 2, Q4 at 3 and Q5 at 4. What changed is that the fifth skill point does not allow you to craft Q6 items anymore. A side effect is that the tenth attribute point is even more pointless than it was previously. You need to invest 7 levels' worth of progression to upgrade from 7 to 10 and you don't even get better weapons out of it. With this change, weapon and armor crafting is now firmly a second class citizen compared to looting. What was going on in their heads when they came up with this... I can't even begin to imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
credomane Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 It was originally like this in earlier a18 branches, then they changed it back in b149 and back again in 152. Right but why was t6 uncraftable ever the case? It raises the question of why bother crafting anything since you *will* find something equally good or better than you can craft long before you acquire enough of those specialty parts, especially for the tools (pick, shovel, and axe)? Plus you have to max out your chosen skill to even craft that inferior t5 item. Lastly to rub salt into the wound, for each higher tier of a tool you can craft you are punished by needing even more of the specialty parts than before. I'm all for crafting being harder but there is a clear difference between harder and inferior. A18 crafting is so far into inferior territory it needs taken out behind the barn. Other than meat stew, red tea, bandages, repair kits and stuffs for bullets I don't craft anything in A18 it just isn't worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tricorius Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 Yup. I generally like to perk into a melee weapon and a ranged weapon. I don’t even mind splitting between two primary attributes if it seems fun. BUT, you can’t craft anything remotely close to a T6 weapon or armor piece. T6 melee weapons, for the most part, pale in comparison to T6 guns. So, I have very little desire to perk into melee weapons or armor (yes, stamina). I know it isn’t intended to feel this way, but it feels almost punitive to spend those skill points anywhere but machine guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 BUT, you can’t craft anything remotely close to a T6 weapon or armor piece. t5 is pretty close to t6.... Crafting now results in random stats so a crafted t5 item may very well be better than a looted or purchased t6 item. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipClaw Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 t5 is pretty close to t6.... Crafting now results in random stats so a crafted t5 item may very well be better than a looted or purchased t6 item. And there is RNG again. Apparently the Fun Pimps love RNG. I hope at least they don't make their decisions by flipping a coin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SickPuppy Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 Was having a great time scrounging for scraps of food pre b152. Now end of day 1 I have 24 eggs and max stack of feathers, the casuals are winning we must fight back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boidster Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 Ain't nobody asked me, but IMO the best weapons ought only to come from crafting, not random post-zombie-apocalypse loot. I think the decision to make it the other way around is an odd one. Looting ought to be able to get you pretty decent weapons, sure. Weapons quite good enough to survive even endgame. But the real showpieces, the maxed-out BFGs, should only come from dedicated study and careful crafting. I say this as a player that really isn't all that into crafting. I don't chase down every schematic and I don't usually buy too deeply into the perk tree specifically for crafting. My jimmies remain unrustled about it, it just seems odd... Now, let me ask you about LBD...<smokebomb> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeraal Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 And there is RNG again. Apparently the Fun Pimps love RNG. I hope at least they don't make their decisions by flipping a coin. Of course they don't! Don't be ridiculous! They throw darts with a blindfold. Sometimes the dart hits the bull's-eye, sometimes they barely hit the board, and sometimes the dart goes through a window. For me, the darts have been through the window starting with A17. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tristaris Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 Yeah, I'm puzzled by why they opted to make them craftable, and then remove them yet again. It makes absolutely no sense to me, especially considering the time and effort it takes to even craft those high end items anyhow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeraal Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 Yeah, I'm puzzled by why they opted to make them craftable, and then remove them yet again. It makes absolutely no sense to me, especially considering the time and effort it takes to even craft those high end items anyhow. Because they love getting rid of things some people like. Log spikes, LBD, barbed wire... This time, they took it away, then gave it back, then took it away again. Probably got a good laugh out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calfuron Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 Being able to craft all the best stuff in A17 really disincentivized going out and looting for me. And as quality is no longer tied to damage you're really only losing 1 mod slot from T5 to T6. Would be cool to see new endgame equipment added that required a combination of looted components and craftable materials in order to make it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorlox Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 i don't see the big deal in crafting t6, especially with them planning on adding legendary items down the road that are supposed to be t7's. assuming its to keep people looting or whatever reason they've come up with for this decision. not being able to craft t6 doesn't make sense to me at all. its not like the spam craft days to level nor do we just craft them once and its done(excluding extreme luck). besides, there's a billion other things to loot for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychodabble Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 I'm okay with it one way or the other, but I don't understand why TFP flip-flopped so quickly. If the point of putting craftable T6 into b149 was to try it out, I don't think there was enough time to conclude anything about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ornias Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 If you do not have to scavenge to craft the best items, then why scavenge? This was the primary problem with A17, there was zero reason to scavenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a2340 Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 If you do not have to scavenge to craft the best items, then why scavenge? This was the primary problem with A17, there was zero reason to scavenge. If you cannot craft the best items, then why craft? This will become the primary problem with A18, there will be no reason to craft. Once you have scavenged your T6 weapon, what will be your motivation to scavenge further? Oh, a T6 weapon which has a chance of being a tiny margin better? I don't think so. I'm not annoyed, though. It's merely shifting the method for obtaining reward from INT+mats to PER+RNG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawth77 Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 Honestly, i was looking forward to crafting T6 gear. It makes sense that you should be able to make the best stuff. Consider for a moment that you want to make the best mining pick possible. You've scavenged high and low for the best materials you can find. You've taken time to learn, and hone, your skill in metalworking over long hours at the forge to improve your technique. You've found helpful guides and books to assist you in the endeavor. The moment arrives to craft your masterpiece....and the best you can get is "Welp, this is a really good pick. Not the best. Just really good." I call bull♥♥♥♥. Make it *hard* to craft tier 6. Add more requirements, more mats, whatever you like. Better to work for it than never be able to achieve more than "pretty good". While we're here...honestly, i'd love to see the 1-600 tier item progression as it used to be. That, I believe, would work better with a system where crafting can result in slightly better or worse results than before. The item level being a bit wider would showcase that a bit better, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HungryZombie Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 With this change, weapon and armor crafting is now firmly a second class citizen compared to looting. What was going on in their heads when they came up with this... I can't even begin to imagine. Probably the fact they are going to nerf looting next. It's on the menu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldranon Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 Was having a great time scrounging for scraps of food pre b152. Now end of day 1 I have 24 eggs and max stack of feathers, the casuals are winning we must fight back. Throw a dozen of those dirty ♥♥♥♥♥ eggs on the ground! Fight the power! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipClaw Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 If you do not have to scavenge to craft the best items, then why scavenge? This was the primary problem with A17, there was zero reason to scavenge. You can't craft the best item without scavenging. You need parts that you can't craft yourself but you have to find them, buy them or get them if you scrap items. The fact that you can't craft Q6 items yourself is a pure design decision of the developers but unnecessary to encourage players to scavenge. There are more than enough reasons to scavenge. The Q6 items were just the icing on the cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeraal Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 Was having a great time scrounging for scraps of food pre b152. Now end of day 1 I have 24 eggs and max stack of feathers, the casuals are winning we must fight back. I'll tell you the same filthy casuals get told, "Change your settings". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scyris Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 Ain't nobody asked me, but IMO the best weapons ought only to come from crafting, not random post-zombie-apocalypse loot. I think the decision to make it the other way around is an odd one. Looting ought to be able to get you pretty decent weapons, sure. Weapons quite good enough to survive even endgame. But the real showpieces, the maxed-out BFGs, should only come from dedicated study and careful crafting. I say this as a player that really isn't all that into crafting. I don't chase down every schematic and I don't usually buy too deeply into the perk tree specifically for crafting. My jimmies remain unrustled about it, it just seems odd... Now, let me ask you about LBD...<smokebomb> LBD should come back in the way Darkness Falls mod had it, it had action skills for things that made sense: Weapons, Athletics (running/jumping), Armor use (getting hit). Crafting was all perk related with no LBD aspect to it. To raise a weapons perk you have to actually use the weapon, which is much better than a18 where they are all locked to stats and you have to waste points in stats you don't want to use the weapon well. I like pistols, but I can't for the life of me find anything worthwhile to get in agility other than just the pistol perk, i'm not much of a stealther. I also prefer heavy armor due to urban combat vol 6 or 7, which makes it that when in combat (hit a enemy or got hit by one) you get a 20 second buff that removes the speed penalty on armor. So you can move at full speed in combat. I do feel the heavy armor perk needs a buff though as it doesn't really help all that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boidster Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 You can't craft the best item without scavenging. You need parts that you can't craft yourself but you have to find them, buy them or get them if you scrap items. The fact that you can't craft Q6 items yourself is a pure design decision of the developers but unnecessary to encourage players to scavenge. There are more than enough reasons to scavenge. The Q6 items were just the icing on the cake. This exactly. There is no merit to the "no incentive to scavenge" argument against the gameplay proposition that "highest-level items ought to be craftable." It's easily possible to design the mechanics such that parts, schematics, etc. must be scavenged in order to assemble higher-tier weapons. Wasn't that kinda the mechanic in the A15 days? You'd loot weapons and then deconstruct them to try and get the best parts off them to build a better one? Anyhow, it would not be difficult with the current base mechanics to make top-tier crafted weapons a thing, and still have incentive for scavenging. But apparently TFP has reasoning why they did not do it that way which, alright, I think it's a bit odd but I remain gruntled and having fun anyway. Of course I have to reset my world every few days for new builds so it's not like I'm experiencing "end game" yet... Game seems harder to me (a filthy casual). I've died like 7 or 8 times in the last couple of days and in A17 I never died. I both like and dislike that infection is a thing again. Last night's deaths came from frantically looting POIs trying to find an unpilfered medicine cabinet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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