4x4 gas cost vs effort to get gas

[Xackery]

In A17 and before, maintaining gas on your vehicle could be achieved by simply driving and looking out for gas stations and salvaging cars. This created a system where a vehicle could potentially drive endlessly.

 

It feels the ratio of how much a 4x4 consumes gas, vs the effort noted above (perhaps remedied with the 2x salvage rate of a fully perception build, but that aside), when you consider that a car once fully wrenched is gone forever. This means that in order to keep a vehicle going on a long running game, you're forced to hunt down oil shale (which is rarely convenient), and mine it (again more ideal with a STR build with the 2x harvest), then use a chem lab to convert to gas.

 

Ultimately what I'm saying is, the 4x4 gas cost is too steep vs. the recovery of gas from cars.

 

While not scientific, if let's say I go an INT build for grease monkey, the effort it takes me to pick up a quest from a trader, drive the ~1km to get to the destination, salvaging every car on the way that is still up, and driving the ~1km to return, I will end up using more gas than I salvaged. This is when the town is pristine. Once I repeat a quest in the area, I am at a negative, and have to wander to car locations in hopes to find something. Until ultimately, I am forced to park my car, whip out the bike, and ride to get oil shale and mine it at a very slow rate without the harvest.

 

In a multiplayer scenario, it is even worse since you're competing for the scarce vehicles to gain gas for, or the oil shale recovered gas (which is a 1:1 ratio for shale out of ground, especially difficult if not near a desert biome).

 

The game feels to punish you for using the created vehicle due to this difficulty. You spend as much time trying to get gas to keep your car driving as you do driving.

[Synvastian]

Its supposed to feel high risk high reward (do I really need that much cargo room for this quest?) if you answer yes, then you take the 4X4 and watch your gasoline drain, if no, you grab the gas less bicycle.

 

I drive the motorcycle pretty often (never upgraded to 4X4, I just make 2+ trips if I really need to strip a place of everything) and I carry the bike in the motorcycle, as I can drive to the EDGE of a far off town, bike INTO town, loot/quest, bike back to the motorcycle and unload, rinse and repeat, I lose a few in game hours a day not using the motorcycle to move directly, but I save gas

 

as for the mining, I haven't reached the "need to mine or I can't drive" stage yet because I'm fairly frugal but I'm sure I'll get there, all I can say about it is, if you really like driving, maybe start a shale mine as soon as you find a location (home base), regardless of having a vehicle yet (don't wait until its needed, better to have and not need and all that)

 

I also hear the 4X4 has the worst gas efficiency of the gas vehicles, possibly its just the trade off of having so much hauling room?

[Xackery]

I see. So the intention is to only use the 4x4 with it's 71+ minute build time, and large material cost, for large cargo trips? I'll build more motorcycles for our 5 player server and tell them all not to use jeeps anymore, so we can actually drive vehicles, then.

 

If this ends up being the final design, any thoughts about making the motorcycle have a rear seat? That's the only feature of the 4x4 I truly care about, being able to drive with someone else. Would even opt in for a zero extra cargo space, but 2 person vehicle. That may incentive me to spend the perk point of what is the Gryocopter.. I know if this is the permanent 4x4 choice, I'll grease monkey up to motorcycle and never bother with jeep or gyrocopter anymore. It simply is more a punishment than benefit to go beyond the motorcycle perk if Synvastian speaks truth on intention.

 

with how amazing other perks are in INT, I'm surprised the grease monkey one has no real direct benefit. Perhaps consider a fuel efficiency passive bonus on higher levels of grease monkey?

[Synvastian]

I would also tell everyone to carry a bike no matter what (yes you lose out on 1 storage permanently, but you can save gas on those short trips which are too long on foot, but a waste of gas)

[unholyjoe]

just think of it as a world wide gas shortage... you have to decide - drive a VW or a Caddilac (remembering that gas isnt as free as it used to be and you have a very limited amount in stock).

[Jihh]

You still get tons of gas by mining. I was mining for half an ingame day and have gas for weeks, with just 2 points in mother lode. In the end you have to decide what's the most efficient playstyle for your situation (location, build, items, base size, activities, ...). If you always to be able to transport as much loot as possible and you are driving lots of long distances, you should plan for a full day of mining oil shale every few weeks. If you keep you distances short, don't use any gas powered tools and are happy with the motorcycle or even the minibike, than half a day of mining will last you for your whole game.

Just don't do your mining on your first day with low quality tools and no points in mother lode. Use gas from cars until you are able to mine a bit more efficiently and then go for it.

[Xackery]

I see. So in other words, spending the INT req and perk points to later grease monkey has tradeoffs, so i'm better off going for the any other perk line, since they only get better as you spend points. Got it.

[Ivengar]

Given that in real life gas IN THE BEST conditions can only last about a year before it is no longer good the very fact that you can get gas from anything in the game is bonus. Add in the ability to make fresh gas and I have no idea what you are complaining about.

[Xackery]

Any thoughts of reintroducing biofuel btw?

 

And yeah, I get it. The competition of the fact you can find gryocopter and 4x4 schematics, as well as the fact every other perk line in INT results in benefits if you max it, grease monkey is an inferior spend beyond motorcycle.

[Synvastian]

get a point or 2 in mother lode and wait until you get a steel pick for mining, grease monkey up to what you want eventually (heck I find it fun to ride separate motorcycles with friends, see who can get the best ragdoll out of zombies we come across) and gather before you need (only have the bike but found 2 oil shale locations? take a day to dig it up, that way when you get minibike/motorcycle etc. you are set for quite a while, still wrench cars while out on runs to maintain, but not to survive)

[OzHawkeye]

Shale veins are so easy to find in the desert, so common, and provide so much gas once cooked, so fast, that I can't imagine even a fleet of 4x4's exhausting even a modicum of shale mining.

 

I took nearly 100,000 gas cans worth of shale out of a vein in not much more than 30 minutes of mining.

[Katitof]

End game vehicle has high maintenance cost.

 

Getting oil isn't exactly hard by that time.

If you can't handle 4x4 consumption, use lighter vehicle and go off of salvage if you hate getting shale that much.

[Limdood]

Why do people insist that you need a STR build to go grab some resources?

 

Oil shale gives a 10 to 1 return on gas. I spent a few in-game hours mining about 7 blocks deep in a SINGLE oil shale node, and ended up with 60k gas. I had miner69er 3, and motherlode 2...that means I had a whopping THREE in strength. It was not a strength build. That gas, from about 5 in-game hours on day 13, will probably keep me going for more than an in-game week.

 

Oil shale is unbelievably common in the desert, easy to find, and has a HUGELY beneficial conversion rate.

[unholyjoe]

Why do people insist that you need a STR build to go grab some resources?

 

Oil shale gives a 10 to 1 return on gas. I spent a few in-game hours mining about 7 blocks deep in a SINGLE oil shale node, and ended up with 60k gas. I had miner69er 3, and motherlode 2...that means I had a whopping THREE in strength. It was not a strength build. That gas, from about 5 in-game hours on day 13, will probably keep me going for more than an in-game week.

 

Oil shale is unbelievably common in the desert, easy to find, and has a HUGELY beneficial conversion rate.

 

you dont but at least hit the lvl 1 of miner69r to get more bang for the buck... i also hit one in mother lode to boost amount harvested.

[Jihh]

Why do people insist that you need a STR build to go grab some resources?

 

Before I need gas I usually need engines, so I already have gas from salvaging cars that last me for some time. I also need springs, oil and other stuff from cars, so I won't stop salvaging cars the moment I have an engine. Because of that it makes more sense to go farm oil shale at a later time when I'm more efficient in doing so, instead of early in my game when I get half as much or even less. That way I don't need to come back anytime soon. Sometimes I even get enough to not have to farm oil shale again in the game.

Also later on I'm way more fitted for the deserts thanks to a bigger choice of clothing and some mods.

 

It's not about the need of a strength build, but about being more efficient.

 

Edit:

Oh okay, I didn't read your full post before answering. What you wrote is excactly what we are saying. Nobody says you need a full strength build, but it's advisable to have at least 2 points in mother lode and miner 69. That doesn't just help with oil shale, but makes your game overall easier without costing too much points.

[CoolJ]

"Forced to hunt down oil shale"

 

Have you even been to the desert at all mate? It's not exactly hidden. Hell, there is enough around on the surface that you probably will never have to even dig for it LOL.