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This news while not very informative and seemingly sad is still good. At least they are finally giving us an update on a console version but I still say this fun pimps even if you port the newest Alpha to the console I will still buy three copies just like I have now to play this game.

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Why then, if you never expected it to be able to run on consoles eventually, did sell the rights at all?

 

Huh? Naturally they expected the game to run on consoles, especially after Telltale made them the offer to handle console things.

 

Telltale offered them a way to have a console version much earlier and they accepted. Otherwise they would have thought about a console version only after 7D2D leaves EA (which now seems to be in 2020 or 2021(?)). Obviously (without telltale) they would never ever have done a version for the current consoles but for the next ones that would be the current by then.

 

---

 

PS: In hindsight everything is clear as sky, but not so at the time. Is TFP to blame for not realizing that licencing a game in EA is a risk? Because TFP naturally would not fix all the minor bugs at that time but neither would Telltale pay for all the necessary bug fixing, at least not before seeing some sales. Sure you can blame them for that, someone with experience in the bussiness might have been able to see that.

 

But look at it, it still would have worked out well if Telltale hadn't folded and produced that update.

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)

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Look at it this way. They're dedicated to continuing work on it, but are more likely to wait until after the PC version is finished. Which quite honestly is what should have happened in the first place, but Telltale wanted to do differently.

 

If TellTale were capable of making better business decisions on stuff like this, they likely wouldn't be gone now. Also the console version wouldn't exist yet.

 

I'd rather look at it through factual eyes and not your rose colored glasses. They are dedicated to working on it if/when the game on pc goes gold. We won't get an update in all likelihood. This means I am still left with a game miles behind PC that crashes often and resets huge chunks causing me to lose sometimes a few hundred hours of work (when it hits my storage room). In all honesty, I wish they would have never made the console version tempting me with a game I had been following since the kickstarter days in hopes of eventually getting to enjoy it on console with friends. Iv enjoyed my time playing but seeing the game on sale made me think maybe we would finally get an update to fix the catastrophic md5 errors but nope. It's on sale on xbox to lure in new people so that TFP can recoup their costs but is still the severely broken game and officially we just got word that no fix is coming. I bought the game day 1 with 3 friends. Release day, using certain skins would break a world and I should have known that it would be a rough road but I never thought it would end like this. Hell even Kerbal got their ♥♥♥♥ together after a year and fixed their severely broken game on console. But at least we finally got word so its something...

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I'd rather look at it through factual eyes and not your rose colored glasses. They are dedicated to working on it if/when the game on pc goes gold. We won't get an update in all likelihood. This means I am still left with a game miles behind PC that crashes often and resets huge chunks causing me to lose sometimes a few hundred hours of work (when it hits my storage room). In all honesty, I wish they would have never made the console version tempting me with a game I had been following since the kickstarter days in hopes of eventually getting to enjoy it on console with friends. Iv enjoyed my time playing but seeing the game on sale made me think maybe we would finally get an update to fix the catastrophic md5 errors but nope. It's on sale on xbox to lure in new people so that TFP can recoup their costs but is still the severely broken game and officially we just got word that no fix is coming. I bought the game day 1 with 3 friends. Release day, using certain skins would break a world and I should have known that it would be a rough road but I never thought it would end like this. Hell even Kerbal got their ♥♥♥♥ together after a year and fixed their severely broken game on console. But at least we finally got word so its something...

 

Look at it thru the facts, TELLTALE sold you the broken game, not TFP who had nothing to do with the development. Telltale licensed the rights to the game and produced the version that you then bought.

 

Then Telltale went out of business and couldn't keep producing updates on the game.

 

It's like blaming a book author if a movie studio buys the rights to their movie and then makes a bad movie based off of it.

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So ok, let's say 7DtD is finally "dead" on console and you are be able to release a new "version", this is good to hear but in my opinion "stupid". Don't quote me on "stupid" bcause i don't call someone names ;) There are maybe thousands of people, waiting to become finally a new update to start playing again. 10.000 on weekend mean nothing if we can get constant updates. If 7DtD is dead on ps4, i can guarantee that i wont buy it again if it would new released on "ps5". Its good to hear that TFP have their rights back, but TFP must work hard to survive on console. Thats just my thoughts so dont get angry ;)

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Your analogy fails on the fact that rarely does the author have 0 imputed. If I tell a worker to do something and it ends up done poorly, it still falls back onto me as their supervisor.

 

 

It is still their IP, and they got the rights back, likely had a hand in putting it on sale and then went sorry about your broken game. TT is definitely the main one to blame here but TFP are not absolved of any responsibility especially as they now own the rights.

 

Even if we pretend things are exactly the way you say in such a simple scope on the subject, The game is on sale right now on xbox. Friends of mine bought it in the past week. They literally just bought a severely broken game that is CURRENTLY owned exclusively by TFP.

Edited by DaPopeLP (see edit history)

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Your analogy fails on the fact that rarely does the author have 0 imputed. If I tell a worker to do something and it ends up done poorly, it still falls back onto me as their supervisor.

 

Even if a writer has contractual input on a movie, no big movie studio ever has given the author the right to decide when to publish the movie, or given him the means to stop it after production began and they sunk millions into the movie. (Actually there may have been very rare exceptions when the movie studio really really really wanted to do a book and the author didn't want to. But normally a movie company will buy out reluctance with more money or a percentage of the sales, but never with power to just throw out millions out of the window)

 

The author is never "supervisor" to the "worker" movie studio. Come on, does this sound like the movie studios you know to allow a writer to have such power over them? The author may have the power to say some event in the movie is in conflict with the lore, but he has absolutely no influence on production after the contract is signed.

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)

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Even if a writer has contractual input on a movie, no big movie studio ever has given the author the right to decide when to publish the movie, or given him the means to stop it after production began and they sunk millions into the movie. (Actually there may have been very rare exceptions when the movie studio really really really wanted to do a book and the author didn't want to. But normally a movie company will buy out reluctance with more money or a percentage of the sales, but never with power to just throw out millions out of the window)

 

The author is never "supervisor" to the "worker" movie studio. Come on, does this sound like the movie studios you know to allow a writer to have such power over them? The author may have the power to say some event in the movie is in conflict with the lore, but he has absolutely no influence on production after the contract is signed.

 

Yeah, usually the author is just there as creative consultant. They don't have a say in most of it such as who is hired, and so forth.

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Im just curous why they would buy the console rights back if they dont want to update? Is it just for the rights to make anyother one? That is exciting news to me. Even if it releases on the next gen they almost always make it for the last gen as well because they know how many people wont have it. Am i far off here? I dunno. Even if i have to repurchase it we all know we will dont even to try and say you wont. This is the news that we have been wanting for so very long. I think it is exciting.

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Your analogy fails on the fact that rarely does the author have 0 imputed. If I tell a worker to do something and it ends up done poorly, it still falls back onto me as their supervisor.

 

 

It is still their IP, and they got the rights back, likely had a hand in putting it on sale and then went sorry about your broken game. TT is definitely the main one to blame here but TFP are not absolved of any responsibility especially as they now own the rights.

 

Even if we pretend things are exactly the way you say in such a simple scope on the subject, The game is on sale right now on xbox. Friends of mine bought it in the past week. They literally just bought a severely broken game that is CURRENTLY owned exclusively by TFP.

 

 

TFP don't put the game on sale. Sony and Microsoft control the price of that and it is on them what price it is. Not sure how they determine when it goes on sale but stream normally puts it on sale also in October guessing because it being a zombie game and Halloween or something.

 

Yes they own the rights now but guess in your eyes they should just go broke to do another update that will probably still be broke by the way considering it would still be an update that coming from an alpha version. People might not like that they don't have the money nor the time really to deal with console right now but it is what it is. Nothing goin to change that.

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Look at it thru the facts, TELLTALE sold you the broken game, not TFP who had nothing to do with the development. Telltale licensed the rights to the game and produced the version that you then bought.

 

Then Telltale went out of business and couldn't keep producing updates on the game.

 

It's like blaming a book author if a movie studio buys the rights to their movie and then makes a bad movie based off of it.

 

No i prefer to look at it as TFP sold the licensing for a game they never intended to bring to console (they admit they dont have a clue on console), they then took all that money and instead of working to strengthen the console player experience sunk it all in to PC (the main area of focus since day 1). From the very start TFP have been utterly useless for console players and as evidence from their many many streams really only ever cared about pc players going as far as telling console players to rebuy their product. Unless people are operating under the idea that TFP sold the rights then 100% walked away (which is wrong by TFP own admission) there is no way you cannot fault them for this. TFP sold the rights to an unfinished product (a product never meant for console in the first place), decided to hide and blame literally everything on TT the entire time and now bought the rights back since there are millions of console players that potentially would pay them to fix their mistakes (what/why?). TFP knew since day 1 they had little to no interest in console porting but saw an opportunity to raise funds to finish their game so they took it and screwed the player base

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Alright guys, this is kinda just for fun but i want to show these guys it would be worth it to do something. It only takes a second to sign and if we are lucky they will see that there is more money than they think is sitting right in front of their faces =).

 

https://www.change.org/p/the-fun-pimps-we-support-and-will-pay-for-a-re-release-or-paid-dlc-for-current-gen-7d2d?recruiter=1010716514&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=share_petition

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No i prefer to look at it as TFP sold the licensing for a game they never intended to bring to console (they admit they dont have a clue on console), they then took all that money and instead of working to strengthen the console player experience sunk it all in to PC (the main area of focus since day 1).

 

So TFP should have given the money from the licencing to Telltale for the development of the console version? That would be the same as if they had given the licence to Telltale for free! What world are you living in? As long as TT was alive it was TT's job to pay for the porting.

 

You have a case if you say that now that TT is gone, the licence money should be invested in console. The problem is we don't know how much of that money is left after laywer fees and the auction. And whether the rest of that money is enough to pay a company like IG to finish developing that old code. Or do you suggest that they invest money from the PC sales to finance the console version? :cocksure:. No worries, if they want a version on the new consoles they probably have to.

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So TFP should have given the money from the licencing to Telltale for the development of the console version? That would be the same as if they had given the licence to Telltale for free! What world are you living in? As long as TT was alive it was TT's job to pay for the porting.

 

You have a case if you say that now that TT is gone, the licence money should be invested in console. The problem is we don't know how much of that money is left after laywer fees and the auction. And whether the rest of that money is enough to pay a company like IG to finish developing that old code. Or do you suggest that they invest money from the PC sales to finance the console version? :cocksure:. No worries, if they want a version on the new consoles they probably have to.

 

What i am saying is if TFP sold the rights to develop a port then yes they should have invested some of the sales towards the development of their brand. TFP branding is all over the consol port i mean for the sake of image at least you would think they would reinvest some of that money. I also doubt very seriously TFP didnt see anything from the sale of the console port version of the game. I would imagine they got a portion of each sale maybe 5-10% with the rest going to TT/IG. If they didnt why stick around at all? Why leave your branding on a product you sold and want nothing to do with? Assuming they did benefit from the console copy sales it cant be argued that TFP took that money and stuck it into the pc version. So if they now have the option to take pc sales and use it to bolster the console players then its only fair they do so. Its just really amazing to me how unconcerned TFP have been regarding millions of players and how their only answer is to rebuy the game.

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I also doubt very seriously TFP didnt see anything from the sale of the console port version of the game. I would imagine they got a portion of each sale maybe 5-10% with the rest going to TT/IG.

 

Correction: 30% go to xbox,sony.

 

Do you have any sales figures?

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Correction: 30% go to xbox,sony.

 

Do you have any sales figures?

 

No and we dont really need them? It's dumb to assume TFP didnt see any profit from the console sales and no matter what percentage that may have been the fact is they used to it further pc development. If its 1% or 70% the money was spent to develop a product other than the product the sales were generated from. For the pure sake of argument lets say they sold 1 million copies on ps4 and a million on xbox at a conservative $10 a copy (way below the $29.99 tag it came out with). Even at 1% that means they had a profit of $200,000. Is anyone seriously going to argue that with even a 1% sale revenue TFP couldnt have worked towards finishing the console versions?

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No and we dont really need them? It's dumb to assume TFP didnt see any profit from the console sales and no matter what percentage that may have been the fact is they used to it further pc development. If its 1% or 70% the money was spent to develop a product other than the product the sales were generated from. For the pure sake of argument lets say they sold 1 million copies on ps4 and a million on xbox at a conservative $10 a copy (way below the $29.99 tag it came out with). Even at 1% that means they had a profit of $200,000. Is anyone seriously going to argue that with even a 1% sale revenue TFP couldnt have worked towards finishing the console versions?

 

How do you know that they got anything from the sales? It could of simply been that they said this is how much I feel the game is worth and TT agree and made one price. I mean we don't know how or what the deal between them was and never will. Sure they have the rights back and are making some money on sales now but it isn't millions. But blows my mind that you think that they should of took money they made from a deal to help put back into the deal. That is just absolutely crazy. Of course the money regardless if it was from game sales or a one time fee or a little of both went into the PC version. But to say they didn't help is also crazy because they kept sending the coding to TT and IG of what they had and or was ready give. They even helped IG a few times based on some things that was said long ago with a few things. So they did help but was they focused on console no and that wasn't and isn't hidden at all. Why do they have their name on it because it is their creation. TT/IG didn't make the game they just took a copy and ported over and also wasn't just a one time port the last content they did wasn't what TT or IG created it was a copy of the files that go ported. Same with the update that got stopped. You wanna write a article or book and copy someone and not recognize or give them credit? Ok so lets go back to what money they got from console after this legal mess and stuff how much of it did they even see or actually get out of it? We will never know the amount but can guarantee it is a lot less then they got. So to say all of it went into pc isn't actually true because a lot of it went to everything that has happened the last year.

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How do you know that they got anything from the sales? It could of simply been that they said this is how much I feel the game is worth and TT agree and made one price. I mean we don't know how or what the deal between them was and never will. Sure they have the rights back and are making some money on sales now but it isn't millions. But blows my mind that you think that they should of took money they made from a deal to help put back into the deal. That is just absolutely crazy. Of course the money regardless if it was from game sales or a one time fee or a little of both went into the PC version. But to say they didn't help is also crazy because they kept sending the coding to TT and IG of what they had and or was ready give. They even helped IG a few times based on some things that was said long ago with a few things. So they did help but was they focused on console no and that wasn't and isn't hidden at all. Why do they have their name on it because it is their creation. TT/IG didn't make the game they just took a copy and ported over and also wasn't just a one time port the last content they did wasn't what TT or IG created it was a copy of the files that go ported. Same with the update that got stopped. You wanna write a article or book and copy someone and not recognize or give them credit? Ok so lets go back to what money they got from console after this legal mess and stuff how much of it did they even see or actually get out of it? We will never know the amount but can guarantee it is a lot less then they got. So to say all of it went into pc isn't actually true because a lot of it went to everything that has happened the last year.

 

Well it is true because whatever they spent to get the rights back they can recoup in future sales, they can recoup when the inevitably sell the rights to the next publisher. Dont think for a second TFP isnt going to make money on this i mean really why else would they even want the rights back in the first place?

 

I am not sure why you think it's mind blowing to reinvest in a product? That money could have went to help with coding issues, could have helped with the transition to the new unity system etc. Sure they "lose" profit but again they could earn more potentially if they developed and fixed the issues still plaguing the system now. Instead they pocketed whatever they got from the sales and again stuck it into the pc version. Now you are right they acted as "advisers" but in all reality there is no real reason they couldnt have done more other than they didnt want to. Had there been a better relationship between TFP, TT and IG i'd imagine things would have been done quicker and perhaps have been completed by now

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No and we dont really need them? It's dumb to assume TFP didnt see any profit from the console sales and no matter what percentage that may have been the fact is they used to it further pc development. If its 1% or 70% the money was spent to develop a product other than the product the sales were generated from. For the pure sake of argument lets say they sold 1 million copies on ps4 and a million on xbox at a conservative $10 a copy (way below the $29.99 tag it came out with). Even at 1% that means they had a profit of $200,000. Is anyone seriously going to argue that with even a 1% sale revenue TFP couldnt have worked towards finishing the console versions?

Actually you do if you want to support your argument.

 

Let's take a gander.

30% of sales to MS and Sony. This is a known number.

5-10% of sales to TFP for licensing. (Unknown, but pretty common amount)

50% of sales to Iron Galaxy to fund development. (Again, unknown. We know it's not cheap though.)

Remaining 10-15% goes to Telltale profits.

 

Now, you can also argue that that small % that went to TFP, was used to pay for the support they gave IG in developing the console version. It also could have covered legal fees, and other things regarding the console version itself.

 

You can't just assume that it directly supported PC development. You can guarantee that it's not enough to cover finishing the console versions.

 

Which lets be fair, is something TFP have said that they want to do. There are some issue with doing that though, and they've given you a heads up about it.

 

You guys seem to forget that they are still working on solving this issue. You're all treating it as if TFP said it's the end, for which they most certainly did not.

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Well it is true because whatever they spent to get the rights back they can recoup in future sales,

...potenital sales. There's no guarantee that potential future sales would recoup what they paid to regain the rights, there's only hope, and you cannot run a business on hope.

 

they can recoup when the inevitably sell the rights to the next publisher. Dont think for a second TFP isnt going to make money on this i mean really why else would they even want the rights back in the first place?

...there's nothing inevitable about what you're stating. Again, this is an assumption that someone else will want to pick up the rights. It's a gamble and, in business, you simply cannot do that when you are responsible for your staff. TFP isn't just an amorphous beast pumping out a video game. It's people, with families, mortgages, children, responsibilities. To run a risk like this and possibly end up going the same way that TT did is totally reckless.

 

 

That money could have went to help with coding issues, could have helped with the transition to the new unity system etc. Sure they "lose" profit but again they could earn more potentially if they developed and fixed the issues still plaguing the system now.

...just as above, you'd be gambling a definite loss of profit against a possible upswing in sales. I feel sure that those in control of TFP did a P&L analysis against potential sales revenue. When you're dealing with intangible aspects like revenue potential you have to be very, very careful. Most of the time it's simply not worth it.

 

 

Instead they pocketed whatever they got from the sales and again stuck it into the pc version.

...actually, I hope they did. That would make the most business sense. The PC version is their flagship product, it's where it all started. When you have a successful flagship product you support it as best you can. That is far smarter than any other option they had and will ensure that TFP stays around.

 

 

Now you are right they acted as "advisers" but in all reality there is no real reason they couldn't have done more other than they didn't want to. Had there been a better relationship between TFP, TT and IG i'd imagine things would have been done quicker and perhaps have been completed by now

...I doubt that TFP kept people around simply to help TT and IG on the odd occassion they needed it. Again, they run a business. In business each person has a full-time role and, in the case of TFP, those roles would have centred around development of the PC product. That was what they were there for and the console version is what TT and IG were there for. When you enter into a business partnership with someone you expect them to be able to do the job they said they would. TFP had to trust that TT and IG could pick up the 7DtD code and run with it without distracting TFP from their primary goal, the PC product. That's business. You must be able to rely on your partners and that is the greatest area that TT let TFP down.

 

Skillz, I get your upset and you want someone to blame. That's perfectly natural. The long and the short of it is, TFP did their job and expected TT to do theirs. That's all that TFP can be blamed for here.

 

I really think this thread needs to be closed. All it's doing, like the last one, is creating animosity between those with differing opinions. The decision has been made and we have to learn to live with it until the day that TFP says they have a new console project on the go. Bickering won't change anything.

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Agree I don't think much more can be said on the matter then the two post before this one. It will just be going back and forth because one side feels one way as another feels a another way and some just in the middle. I mean what is done is done and like it was said they technically haven't said they are finish with console. Either way if new news come I bet it will be in a new thread anyway. So before this get pages and pages out of control like the last one, I agee go ahead and close this and let them take a conversation over to general discussions like before.

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...potenital sales. There's no guarantee that potential future sales would recoup what they paid to regain the rights, there's only hope, and you cannot run a business on hope.

 

 

...there's nothing inevitable about what you're stating. Again, this is an assumption that someone else will want to pick up the rights. It's a gamble and, in business, you simply cannot do that when you are responsible for your staff. TFP isn't just an amorphous beast pumping out a video game. It's people, with families, mortgages, children, responsibilities. To run a risk like this and possibly end up going the same way that TT did is totally reckless.

 

 

 

...just as above, you'd be gambling a definite loss of profit against a possible upswing in sales. I feel sure that those in control of TFP did a P&L analysis against potential sales revenue. When you're dealing with intangible aspects like revenue potential you have to be very, very careful. Most of the time it's simply not worth it.

 

 

 

...actually, I hope they did. That would make the most business sense. The PC version is their flagship product, it's where it all started. When you have a successful flagship product you support it as best you can. That is far smarter than any other option they had and will ensure that TFP stays around.

 

 

 

...I doubt that TFP kept people around simply to help TT and IG on the odd occassion they needed it. Again, they run a business. In business each person has a full-time role and, in the case of TFP, those roles would have centred around development of the PC product. That was what they were there for and the console version is what TT and IG were there for. When you enter into a business partnership with someone you expect them to be able to do the job they said they would. TFP had to trust that TT and IG could pick up the 7DtD code and run with it without distracting TFP from their primary goal, the PC product. That's business. You must be able to rely on your partners and that is the greatest area that TT let TFP down.

 

Skillz, I get your upset and you want someone to blame. That's perfectly natural. The long and the short of it is, TFP did their job and expected TT to do theirs. That's all that TFP can be blamed for here.

 

I really think this thread needs to be closed. All it's doing, like the last one, is creating animosity between those with differing opinions. The decision has been made and we have to learn to live with it until the day that TFP says they have a new console project on the go. Bickering won't change anything.

 

The end problem is TFP started all of this its just a fact and its simply isnt fair to blame TT for everything over the past few years. This isn't a new issue the lack of support, details along the way or even appreciation for console players has been happening since day 1. TT worked on an unfinished game that had no direction and really never should have been ported in the first place. TFP saw a opportunity to make money, an opportunity to develop their version of the game and they took it. As you say these are real people who made these choices and real people who chose to screw the console players. Its unacceptable years later major bug fixes havent been handled i mean content aside they at minimum should have done bug fixes.

 

And yes i and many players are very upset about the situation, about TFP getting the rights back etc. Why shouldnt we be? TFP who have for years told us simply to go buy their version of the game are now swooping in with a "well maybe we'll help you but probably not anytime soon at best". I mean this is nearly worse case scenario only slightly above finding out the rights were sold elsewhere....on the other hand if another studio bought it work would probably get done faster so perhaps this is the worst case possible

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Being realistic here, the only chance that the last update being worked on gets finished is if another publisher came along willing to work with IG. But even then, that's assuming TFPs didnt learn anything from this TT debacle....

 

Based on their response, my guess is they probably concluded doing another port is probably not worth it until after gold release.

 

Condolences to all those who feel cheated and I commend those who choose to take the high road on the matter.

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You guys seem to forget that they are still working on solving this issue. You're all treating it as if TFP said it's the end, for which they most certainly did not.

 

ROTFLMAO. This is too funny. While I would agree their statement said they were still “working on this issue” They did preface it by saying that they were going to have PC go gold first.

So Sylen, when is PC going to go gold???

 

From TFP videos I don’t think they even know when that is going to happen. So while they didn’t say it was the end, which I wish they would have said. It is pretty clear that there isn’t going to be a final update for the current version of console.

 

Let’s look at the straight up facts. The revenue generated by TFP releasing their version of 7D2D for console will generate X times the revenue that an update would generate for the TTG version of 7D2D for console that TFP now own.

 

So sorry, I am calling BS that they are still working on solving the TTG console version update. I think we can both agree that “still working on this issue” is lip service. PS5 is suppose to be out holiday 2020, and I bet money I will be able to buy the “new” version of 7D2D when I buy the PS5.

 

8-2-2019 RIP.

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