Pre gaming analysis

[Viktoriusiii]

Yup the town idiot is back.

I'll get right to the chase without saying how much I love this new alpha and stuff(I do. Fixed a whole lot of my issues that I talked about ad infinitum in A17):

Haven't played it, but already noticed some flaws from watching all the youtubers:

 

1. Spears are too powerful. There is no need for a bow that costs 0.8 feathers a shot if you have a more powerful variance in the spear.

My way to balance: make throwing the spear cost 5x the durability of a normal hit (reduced with perks until you are at 1x when fully leveled) and give it a 5% chance to lose 10% durability instantly. This brings a bit of randomness in the monotone "throw collect throw collect kill collect" routine with the spear.

Alternatively (although probably not doable) make spears have a 0.5% chance to be lunged inside the zombie where you need 5 seconds to pull it out (similar to loot containers) so you cant always just pull it out (reduce the time by 1 sec with every level, making lvl 5 spears instant)

 

2. loot is too abundant/loottables are too generous

I finally got the vision that TFPs have for this game. It is a looter shooter with some survival elements. And that is fine. But if you loot everything in the first 7 days that you need, its losing half of its gameplay element. You shouldnt find steel in your first 5 days, you shouldnt find good weapons in the first 5 days (Back in A16 and before a pistol on the first hordenight was a lucky find and gave you a sense of "I'm not ready!!!! *crying in the corner*")

This has been said before but I just wanted to say that too much loot (only talking about early game. Late game you can shower us with loot, since it is only about the rng finds) isn't ideal. The first 7 days should just be looting ♥♥♥♥ty materials and some ammo and MAYBE a lucky weapon find. But the first hordenight should be dealt with with primitive tools weapons and defenses.

 

3. zombie counts outside. has been talked to death but needs to be said again. so yeah. It doesnt feel like an apocalypse but more like all humans were teleported away on time.

 

4. crafting cost is off. Said that in another thread but:

Why punish the player for advancing?

Increase the price of crafting for ALL quality levels, not just for higher qualities.

Yes balancing, but please try to keep as much of fun in the game as you can. And punishing the player for advancing is NOT fun. Never. Best current example is cubeworld that resets your stats every time you complete and area... peopel hate it

 

5. is a question:

wasn't there talk of randomized modslots? I really liked the idea, so you can have an awesome weapon with +20% dmg, but two less modslots... this is an actual choice you need to descide on. Was this scrapped for a reason or was it just too much work for A18?

[Katitof]

1. Spear throw is def OP, faster degradation would be one option to keep its potency while introducing a drawback.

2. There is a setting for that, so no issue with it, if loot is too abundant for you, lower loot abundance.

3. Agreed on that, would love to see more roamers/groups outside, but its pretty much general consensus at this point.

4. Completely don't agree with it. You aren't going to craft flawless item from crappy materials, so you need more raw materials to process/pick best parts and it does make sense. It is also a balance matter as crafting and selling produce was extremely rewarding with zero drawback back in A17. Its simply to stop vendor abuse, there is a ton of ways to make dukes anyway.

[ZombieSurvivor]

Welcome back...

 

 

1. No opinion yet as I just started and I dont judge before I have experienced it myself

2. You exaggerate way to much

3. Agreed

4. No opinion yet as I just started and I dont judge before I have experienced it myself

5. News to me

[Viktoriusiii]

2. There is a setting for that, so no issue with it, if loot is too abundant for you, lower loot abundance.

3. Agreed on that, would love to see more roamers/groups outside, but its pretty much general consensus at this point.

4. Completely don't agree with it. You aren't going to craft flawless item from crappy materials, so you need more raw materials to process/pick best parts and it does make sense. It is also a balance matter as crafting and selling produce was extremely rewarding with zero drawback back in A17. Its simply to stop vendor abuse, there is a ton of ways to make dukes anyway.

 

2. there is no setting that scales with gamestage. So if you play on servers, there is no setting for less early loot and same loot lategame. That is why the basegame should be balanced

 

4. well if you suck at crafting you also need more materials to craft bad quality.

Just in case you didnt understand.

Now:

20,40,60,80,100 iron (or whatever)

My solution:

80,80,80,80,80

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Welcome back...

 

 

1. No opinion yet as I just started and I dont judge before I have experienced it myself

no problem.

2. You exaggerate way to much

maybe... if all the youtubers have cranked up lootsetting... dont think so though. they all have 2-4 guns per person on first hordenight.

3. Agreed

4. No opinion yet as I just started and I dont judge before I have experienced it myself

no problem.

5. News to me

 

added

[Amotaraso]

Hi!

 

1.

Have not tried a spear yet, but I hear the same as you. That it is OP when thrown. Even stabbing seems crazy. But anyway I have not put thoughts to it.

 

2.

Absolutely agree. Also a rather big topic on the forums now. It's just out of proportions. And no, that is not exaggeration. It's a fact.

A16 was harsh as f.ck, A17 was the opposite, and A18 is just too generous on the looting. I would say downtune the base loot abundance + chance of quality/tier, so that i.e. Tier 6 is like winning the lottery. And only a lottery that can occur after a couple of weeks in game!

 

3.

100% agree. Though if feels like the world is refreshing more than before. Which is good. However, I would also love to see more roaming hordes, for no good reason, other than….. more zeds please....

Actually, I keep forges going non-stop, just to have screamers come by. That way the world doesn't feel empty without zeds. I even let them scream! Action, GO!

 

4.

Agree 100%. Crafting is way to expensive compared to the gain. I have made a post about this as well, but bottom line; why craft expensive ♥♥♥♥, when you're already looting god tier items?

However, TFP already know this. It will be exciting to see what they come up with

 

5.

Oh good I thought I was the only one who thought that

I don't remember where, but I was under the impression, that mod slots were rolled, not fixed.

I would love to see that happen actually, as a part of a balance change.

 

Good post, thumbs up! Easy to read

[Kattla]

Yup the town idiot is back.

 

Very good. I can take a vacation then.

[canadianbluebeer]

Try throwing the spear at a Boar in the first week.

 

Did you enjoy your dirtnap?

 

Some of the weapons seem OP early on, but as it progresses, they aren't, and against the tougher zeds, they are barely getting by.

 

Yes there is a lot of loot. Sell it, or scrap it. (remember having a chest full of pistols in A16)

 

We can smelt the extra dukes, so that is now a source of brass. (that's a hinta hinta on all the crud to sell)

 

We can buy forges/workbench/chem etc stations. They are not really cheap. Same for vehicles.

Need dukes for that if you don't want to spec into those areas.

Buying recipes for said perks. same thing.

 

There is a dearth of birdnests, so not near as many feathers for arrows (and a buffed wooden bow, is kinda worth it)

 

Again, it's also E, so tuning etc is of course, on going. (eg: enough feathers for single play, but MP, well, gonna have to head

out and taunt vultures. ugh)

 

Oh, you CAN get a feral on day 1. Yer gonna want that shotgun/pistol for that. (surprised the frack outta me!)

 

It has spots that need work, but is a vast improvement over 17. (I'm not yet tempted to mod up the damage on weapons, other than for the giggle factor of course)

[HungryZombie]

Regarding the bow vs spear, doesn't the bow have a great edge in range over the spear? I can hit a zombie a block away with a bow no problem.

[Viktoriusiii]

Regarding the bow vs spear, doesn't the bow have a great edge in range over the spear? I can hit a zombie a block away with a bow no problem.

 

why would you need to?

Except for hunting, zeds come to you! And they are slower than you... so why would range matter (as long as its out of hitrange)?

 

It is slightly harder to hit over 5+ blocks, but you can hit it basicially as quick as a bow (and quicker than a crossbow) and it deals massive damage without using ammo.

One way they COULD change it would be to make spears stuck in zed (as mentioned in my op) happen 100% of the time, but buff the damage of thrown spears by 300%, so if you hit the head its an instakill, but if you hit the body, you need like 5 seconds to retrieve the spear (which would mean the Z can hit you).

This way the spear would be more than just another ranged weapon but without ammo, but would actually have drawbacks and risk involved.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Very good. I can take a vacation then.

 

I do not plan to stay for long. Will stay in this thread and only until Friday, after that a week or two playtesting, writing two more threads (one factbased feedback one emotional) and then I'm gone again.

Sorry ^^ guess you'll need to find another one to replace you

[Ghostlight]

I'd like the people suggesting that level 1 Iron tools should cost more than 20 Forged Iron to be taken outside and eaten. Thanks.

 

And Spear drops off in effectiveness very fast imo.

[Laz Man]

I think the spear is fine. It's a nice alternative to the bow/xbow for ranged combat. It already has the trade off of having to retrieve it especially if you miss. The most important thing is its fun.

 

If the bow/xbow becomes under utilized they should instead buff the bow/xbow somehow.

 

Edit: if the spear power throw is too OP, maybe they can adjust the damage depending how long you prime the throw. Full prime = full damge. They would have to do this to bow as well imo.

[HungryZombie]

why would you need to?

Except for hunting, zeds come to you! And they are slower than you... so why would range matter (as long as its out of hitrange)?

 

Sometimes it's night and I want to get a sneak attack on a far away running zombie. Just one small example but overall it's because I enjoy it. You wonder why anyone would pick bow over spear. There you go!

[Aldranon]

The thing is: Although Spears are nice, they just slow you down!

 

A Wooden club is good for all the normal zombies outside and usually inside too, unless a crowd forms up.

 

I don't think its necessary, but I like to do a quick "charge in, power attack" thing and if they're still standing, hop back then take my finger off the shift key. The zombie often cant even start a swing at you so there is no glitch zombie lag hits on you.

[Ralathar44]

1. Spears are too powerful. There is no need for a bow that costs 0.8 feathers a shot if you have a more powerful variance in the spear.

My way to balance: make throwing the spear cost 5x the durability of a normal hit (reduced with perks until you are at 1x when fully leveled) and give it a 5% chance to lose 10% durability instantly. This brings a bit of randomness in the monotone "throw collect throw collect kill collect" routine with the spear.

Alternatively (although probably not doable) make spears have a 0.5% chance to be lunged inside the zombie where you need 5 seconds to pull it out (similar to loot containers) so you cant always just pull it out (reduce the time by 1 sec with every level, making lvl 5 spears instant)

 

LOL no. Spear is nowhere near the power level of bows. Superior range, easier aiming, much better DPS, no need to retreive your weapon to fire again, etc. Bow also scales alot with skill ranks and quality and ammo tiers, wheras power throws really do not scale near as much. Lastly Bows have explosive arrows, which spear has nothing close to.

 

Spear is outclassed in every way by bows and unlike spears you're not likely to lose a bow and all the mods in it .

 

2. loot is too abundant/loottables are too generous

I finally got the vision that TFPs have for this game. It is a looter shooter with some survival elements. And that is fine. But if you loot everything in the first 7 days that you need, its losing half of its gameplay element. You shouldnt find steel in your first 5 days, you shouldnt find good weapons in the first 5 days (Back in A16 and before a pistol on the first hordenight was a lucky find and gave you a sense of "I'm not ready!!!! *crying in the corner*")

This has been said before but I just wanted to say that too much loot (only talking about early game. Late game you can shower us with loot, since it is only about the rng finds) isn't ideal. The first 7 days should just be looting ♥♥♥♥ty materials and some ammo and MAYBE a lucky weapon find. But the first hordenight should be dealt with with primitive tools weapons and defenses.

 

Debatable. Both types of design are fine and it's mainly based on preference. Current loot abundance definitely makes every POI feel rewarding, which was an issue in A16 and A17 alot of times. However I wouldn't mind if early game stage loot was cut somewhat. However they'd need to improve crafting to ensure you have reliable access to your T2 crafting weapons.

 

 

3. zombie counts outside. has been talked to death but needs to be said again. so yeah. It doesnt feel like an apocalypse but more like all humans were teleported away on time.

 

You've used a really REALLY bad argument. People forget, in their sheltered lives, just how big the world is. Zombies form wandering hordes, we know that from in game, and considering the horde nights there is likely "nests" of zombies somewhere where large amounts of zombies congregate. What we see out in the world is likely just fraction of the actual zombie population. The leftovers and dregs. The rest are roaming the world in search of prey in small packs (wandering hordes) or launch directed attacks in massive groups (bloodmoon horde night).

 

So no matter how you approach it, having many zombies wandering just out in the wilderness would be silly for an apocalypse. If there would be anywhere with large concentrations of wandering zombies it'd be in cities and towns. But could you imagine how much of a PITA it'd be to try and loot anything in a city if the streets were packed with wandering zombies? Every noise would bring like 10 zombies down on you. Every gun shot would bring like 50 zombies. You'd have to clear out like 50 zombies just to enter a POI to kill the zombies inside of it to finally be able to loot.

 

While you may personally like the idea of how this SOUNDS (even if you'd prolly hate how it actually played in practice) it'd be a dramatically different game from anything 7DTD has ever been. If you want that kind of game, go make that game. 7DTD should stick to making it's kind of game.

 

4. crafting cost is off. Said that in another thread but:

Why punish the player for advancing?

Increase the price of crafting for ALL quality levels, not just for higher qualities.

Yes balancing, but please try to keep as much of fun in the game as you can. And punishing the player for advancing is NOT fun. Never. Best current example is cubeworld that resets your stats every time you complete and area... peopel hate it

 

Crafting costs are definitely out of whack atm for things that need parts.

[Orclover]

1. I would have agreed with you until...tonight. I had a level 6 steel spear super lucky find fully modded. Was a killing machine with it. And I threw it...at a cop zombie...who was exploding...while on the roof of an apartment building.

 

I missed.

 

That thing was GONE! G-O-N-E. Looked all over for it, but it was no more. No Mas. Maybe the explosion sent it to the next county, no idea. But throwing a spear has a certain risk to it, eventually you pay a steep price.

 

2. Kinda disagree although RNGeezus can really break this game sometime. I loot way better loot than our group crafter can make. He was a long way to level 10 int, desperately needed steel bars, and 5 minutes later I find a crucible in a box. We were like level 20. But the setting can be tweaked, if you dont like it, nerf it yourself.

 

3. Agree, zombie count seems off. Sometimes in this game I start wondering whats up cuz it feels off and I realize I havent seen a zed in like 10 minutes. Other times there only seems to be a few about. Zed count is way down on the default settings. Even the wandering hordes are capped pretty low.

 

4. Agreed, I almost feel like going pure looter on solo runs because crafting seems to be a waste of time. Between looting and the vendor/rewards I feel like I am wasting my points crafting any of my gear. Its worse for the level 6 gear since they are find/loot only. Feel like the crafter players are getting burned over this one.

[Damocles]

I agree that loot need better drop leveling. I had way too many guns at the first horde night, without much looting overall.

 

Guns should be something special, and ammunition rare.

 

Specific items such as guns should almost not drop at all for the first few days. If dropped they could be broken and unloaded.

 

Once basic guns drop, the ammunition should be very rare.

 

Then At higher levels the amount of ammo dropped could increase.

[Luzifer]

For 2.

 

I would reduce the general Abundance of awesome loot like the T4-T6 weapons and Ammo in Normal minidungeons by a huge amount

and maybe even make that an EXCLUSIVE uncommon/common Loot thing for Shotty messiah and Stiff tools dungeon factories.

That way players have to do decisions if its worth the risk to go for factory or rather scrap the parts from crappy weapons and craft a T5 one oneself.