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is building pointless now?

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There's little point in building imo; whatever you build is gonna get wrecked and with sleepers and dungeon crawls lengthening loot times in poi's, who has the time until late game?

 

Not that this is a bad thing, it just IS a thing in my opinion.

 

Is that you opinion of what A18 will be like? That's probably true, but I need to see for myself.

 

In A17, I can speed loot 4 or 5 loot rooms a day, more if I'm not doing quests.

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I love clearing zeds. No full looting until they're all dead.

 

A18? I'm optimistic. MM has back pedalled on most of the stuff I hated about A17, so that's a good sign.

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I love clearing zeds. No full looting until they're all dead.

 

A18? I'm optimistic. MM has back pedalled on most of the stuff I hated about A17, so that's a good sign.

 

 

On killing zombies IMO: If there was a game reason in killing zombies, I'd be right there with you. Even if it was to kill 100,000 zombies and no more zombies will show up. Even if it was a limited time (77 days for example).

 

As I'm currently into Role-playing the game, gratuitous killing doesn't make sense. In my game plot, the infinite zombies are from nearby Phoenix Arizona (1.5 million potential zombies).

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Aren't they still the best source of XP? I'm trying to get to the point in the game where I have enough points to purchase basic skills that 10 year olds have, so that the real "beginning of the game" can begin.

 

...it's funny, because in previous alphas I always enjoyed restarting and playing from the beginning. Now though, first I have to spend 30 minutes doing the stupid quests, and then 3 days getting skill points so my character has the ability to do things that he was always able to do in previous alphas.

 

Starting over sucks now. :)

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Aren't they still the best source of XP? I'm trying to get to the point in the game where I have enough points to purchase basic skills that 10 year olds have, so that the real "beginning of the game" can begin.

 

...it's funny, because in previous alphas I always enjoyed restarting and playing from the beginning. Now though, first I have to spend 30 minutes doing the stupid quests, and then 3 days getting skill points so my character has the ability to do things that he was always able to do in previous alphas.

 

Starting over sucks now. :)

 

Yeah, starting over can be kinda grueling for sure, so with "dead is dead" I eventually added 20 skill points to my (Edit: Starter) mission. :)

I can easily role play that as my character was a somebody and knew some things before "Day 1".

 

Then, gaining exp by non-violence has more synergy than killing zombies. You can get iron tools pretty fast and focus on mining skills as mining is (A17) a great exp source. Then turn what you mined into more stuff and build things for even more exp.

Edited by Aldranon (see edit history)

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Aren't they still the best source of XP? I'm trying to get to the point in the game where I have enough points to purchase basic skills that 10 year olds have, so that the real "beginning of the game" can begin.

 

...it's funny, because in previous alphas I always enjoyed restarting and playing from the beginning. Now though, first I have to spend 30 minutes doing the stupid quests, and then 3 days getting skill points so my character has the ability to do things that he was always able to do in previous alphas.

 

Starting over sucks now. :)

 

Damn straight. Find some eggs and meat. *scratches head* "There has to be something I can do with these". *kills some zombies* "EUREKA"!

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Base building is fine. People are just freaking out for no reason.

 

Its not, its changed and for the worst. Theres no reward system for building, which is the cooldown from Looting and shooting. Its why so many players are saying "Meh, Level 30 and ive already completed the game" Its soo boring to just loot and shoot with no reason.

 

This is why so many people complained about the new changes, it rewired the whole purpose of the game while leaving some core features of the game behind, Specifically building interest. Theyve made building more grindier and less entertaining

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

There's little point in building imo; whatever you build is gonna get wrecked and with sleepers and dungeon crawls lengthening loot times in poi's, who has the time until late game?

 

Not that this is a bad thing, it just IS a thing in my opinion.

 

Concrete/Steel Exists, Guppy. I said previously, Building is the cooldown.

Like ion any game, You have a main quest and a side quest, Side quests are for focusing attention on more interesting, more relaxing things like building

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Aren't they still the best source of XP? I'm trying to get to the point in the game where I have enough points to purchase basic skills that 10 year olds have, so that the real "beginning of the game" can begin.

 

...it's funny, because in previous alphas I always enjoyed restarting and playing from the beginning. Now though, first I have to spend 30 minutes doing the stupid quests, and then 3 days getting skill points so my character has the ability to do things that he was always able to do in previous alphas.

 

Starting over sucks now. :)

 

Exactly, The game goes from "your a moron" to "your a slightly advantaged moron" to "Your a better moron than before" And still keeping that moron title above your head. You cant go faster than you already are, you cant mine quicker so you feel like youve accomplished something. Your still at the speed you were. It feels like a false reward.

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The what, 9 months? of A17 has pushed my desire to build and create to new lows. I take over the closest POI to the initial trader I'm sent to. I fortify it as much as can be expected and then I find a disposable large POI for horde nights till I've collected enough cement and cobblestone from looting to build a murder corridor bunker. That's about the extent of my building. No more are there grand structures because each block of wall is a liability and drain on resources. Every row of traps that is not in the structural engineer zombie's path is a waste of time and effort. I actively seek to minimize the amount of routine maintenance and upkeep from concrete smashing zeds because that, in my opinion, is not fun. I'd rather spend my days doing quests and exploring the world than constantly banging on rocks to feed forges and cement mixers.

 

This is why we have multiple threads about people avoiding hordes all together because:

1) People do not want the XP due to the gamestage ramifications.

2) People do not want to be in the business of bullet farming.

3) People do not want to be in constant loop of repair and upgrade.

4) No tangible loot rewards from hordes, just an "xp penalty".

 

Yes, the player can turn hordes off but if hordes and AI were better designed, would we even need that?

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Building is pointless if YOU dont find the need to make a use for it. In multiplayer, you can make a base to defend from raids and to survive the feral horde to gain XP

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Building is pointless if YOU dont find the need to make a use for it. In multiplayer, you can make a base to defend from raids and to survive the feral horde to gain XP

 

YYeah there are a lot of people who dont play multiplayer, sadly.

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I loved the ability to build a solid base and sit back and let the base do the fighting for me. That's the kind of playstyle I enjoyed. I loved racing to dig out a death-pit base before the first blood moon, then sneaking around during the day to try to find items to create a self-sustaining farm.

 

Once my death-pit base was secure, I would build a more hands-on base where I could get face-to-face with horde night zombies IF I WANTED TO. There's no option now. The zombies WILL tear your base apart. They don't drop items anymore either. The dropping of items --for me as a builder-- helped because I enjoyed building early on instead of scavenging. Item-drops off of zombies who came by while I was building helped off-set the lack of items from not scavenging right away. Gaining levels via building was easier too, and --while frustrating-- learning to craft better items by crafting those items made in-game sense.

 

I'm not even going to go into the levelgates. RipClaw speaks about them perfectly.

 

They had a good system to balance out both playstyles before. Not so much now. Granted, I haven't played for a while but I'm seeing that 18 might be out soon and am hoping that some of the balance of both playstyles will return.

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I believe building is still important because its extremely hard to make a horde base from a poi and survive on day 42 plus, also you dont have to worry about zombies spawning in your home when the claim box decays. I would say that underground building is dead. The zombies break threw blocks faster than a auger when they dig.

Edited by Thegamingprodigy51 (see edit history)

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I believe building is still important because its extremely hard to make a horde base from a poi and survive on day 42 plus, also you dont have to worry about zombies spawning in your home when the claim box decays.

 

I also prefer to build the horde base from scratch. But I also noticed that the horde bases I have seen so far are much smaller than the ones I saw in A16.

 

would say that underground building is dead. The zombies break threw blocks like a auger when they dig.

 

I wouldn't say it like that.

 

I have a crafting base of which a part is on the bedrock. Everything that generates heat is down there. It's so deep that the game even can't spawn screamers.

 

The aboveground entrance is surrounded by a trench filled with iron spikes. The entrance is via a drawbridge. So far I had no problems with zombies.

 

What unfortunately doesn't work anymore is to build an underground base just below the surface with a hatch and a ladder to access it.

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I wouldn't say it like that.

 

I have a crafting base of which a part is on the bedrock. Everything that generates heat is down there. It's so deep that the game even can't spawn screamers.

 

The aboveground entrance is surrounded by a trench filled with iron spikes. The entrance is via a drawbridge. So far I had no problems with zombies.

 

What unfortunately doesn't work anymore is to build an underground base just below the surface with a hatch and a ladder to access it.

 

I have a crafting base built about 25 blocks deep, far above bedrock. Naturally it attracts screamers, but they all get massacred by rings of alternating concrete and spike traps on the surface.

 

The concrete is overkill, cobblestone or even wood might work as well, but the spike traps have to be repaired from time to time. Size of the surface killzone is just a little bigger than the footprint of the base below and it seems to be enough.

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I think what OP is referring to is Building and crafting slave to the group Yields little XP for character developement or fun - it felt like you drew the short straw well the rest of the gang gets their Murder Hobo on and have fun thinking they are actually contributing... which they are not, want to contribute here a pick axe mine me some ore.

 

A lot of the focus is on looting and killing for gear and XP now. Building a thankless job - we use to get great XP crafting, building and upgrading almost as good as mining but that's nerfed now. Last 3 runs with my group I been telling them I don't want to build anymore (the bases they build were awful btw). And they are right Looting and killing Zeds is fun, I NEVER KNEW !

 

Last 17.4 run I did build but I made the Admin (who in our group) set the shared XP to 1000 meters, and I built the base center near 3 towns and 2 Traders so I can actually get XP.

Edited by Ripflex (see edit history)

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I think what OP is referring to is Building and crafting slave to the group Yields little XP for character developement or fun - it felt like you drew the short straw well the rest of the gang gets their Murder Hobo on and have fun thinking they are actually contributing... which they are not, want to contribute here a pick axe mine me some ore.

 

A lot of the focus is on looting and killing for gear and XP now. Building a thankless job - we use to get great XP crafting, building and upgrading almost as good as mining but that's nerfed now. Last 3 runs with my group I been telling them I don't want to build anymore (the bases they build were awful btw). And they are right Looting and killing Zeds is fun, I NEVER KNEW !

 

Last 17.4 run I did build but I made the Admin (who in our group) set the shared XP to 1000 meters, and I built the base center near 3 towns and 2 Traders so I can actually get XP.

If you put the perks in the spots where you would use them for building and crafting, you actually get quite a bit of exp for it. I can level as fast as, or faster than my other team mates that are out exploring. (In one recent playthrough, it was almost double.)

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Genuine question, is it pointless now to build huge bases other than cosmetics? Havnt found a purpose other then XP which is nothing compared to shooting hordes of zombies

 

If the new demolition zombie can bypass traps, which i find extremly cheap, one reason

for building a huge base could be to have enough blocks to live with the loss of some.

 

However, imo, there never been an actual need to build a HUGE base in this game, it have normally

been something we do to kill some time.

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Genuine question, is it pointless now to build huge bases other than cosmetics? Havnt found a purpose other then XP which is nothing compared to shooting hordes of zombies

 

I have players that build big or build small. It's a playstyle choice.

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After playing through a few times, base building has gotten much worse in general, and its all because of the AI and gamestage. This will be a little long, but hear me out. In previous alphas I was a builder/grinder. As I got better at the game (strategy wise), I would increase the difficulty. My experience lead me to find the red Firehouse POI and use as my loot base (all steel walls) until I was far enough along to build my 'house'. Always built a horde base separate. First week, I would wander until I found the big book store, to get as many schematics as I could. This is strategy. And luck. My play style was to outpace the gamestage, to make sure my horde base was strong enough to beat them back.

 

Not an more.

 

Sadly, the new AI is easy to fake out. The kill-corridor is super easy to build and just works. They are not smarter. Just more predictable. I could live with this during the rest of the week, but when a hundred zeds are beating down the walls in all four directions, this is the real excitement. I used to experiment heavily with all the different traps. Fence posts, blade traps, dart traps, turrets. I would build defences that required more to be added on as the gamestage got to the point where green cops and wights were everywhere, and had random location and behaviour. Now, most traps and techniques for building are pointless. The kill-corridor and a sea of iron spikes are all you actually need, with a rad-remover AK. I keep reading how people think the game is won by day 30. You obviously havent played a gamestage 5000 horde. Thats end-game.

 

Not only has the strategy been stale-mated to the point where all the cool traps are useless, but the new level gating also is poorly unbalanced. This keeps you out of touch with the pace of the gamestage tremendously. By the time you get enough equipment to handle regular sleeper zeds, every POI is filled with ferals. By the time you equip to handle those, they are now all radiated. It would not be so bad if the player level was not added to the crafting (only) perks. Then you could chose perking your character strength OR making better equipment/armor/weapons. Right now, you have to be level 70 to make steel tools. Thats rediculous.

 

And quite frankly, you can loot better tools weapons so easily before you get the chance to make them. This ruins the progression. It used to be fun to finally find that last auger piece, or that rare schematic. It used to be fun to finally make a machette or a steel pickaxe at the highest quality because you earned it. The level gating in previous alphas worked well with the game, now its so out of proportion.

 

So yeah. Its difficult to be creative to see how to build a base now when the "cheap" way is so effective.

 

But for giggles, I did build one other base that handled well for gamestage 3000. Build a 8 x 8 tower 5 blocks tall using only 1/4 blocks. You need to arrange them so they 'stick together' at the corners. When your finished, it will appear to be full blocks that are floating in the air. All steel. The zeds could destroy more than half the blocks and it will not fall down. Make an iron bar cage up top, that overhangs slightly. Now shoot away from every direction. 100+ explosive crossbow bolts. The quarter blocks gives you visibility from every direction, and you can shoot through the spaces with the bolts in any direction. It alot of fun.

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I forgot to mention one other thing:

 

Probably the biggest problem with this game right now is how it appears the changes are trying to balance single player vs multiplayer. When it comes to experience and perk system, there cannot be a balance between SP and MP if they follow the same rules. But during the A17.E to A17.3 versions, it was painfully obvious that the rules were going back and forth because SP was too difficult, and MP was too easy.

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But for giggles, I did build one other base that handled well for gamestage 3000. Build a 8 x 8 tower 5 blocks tall using only 1/4 blocks. You need to arrange them so they 'stick together' at the corners. When your finished, it will appear to be full blocks that are floating in the air. All steel. The zeds could destroy more than half the blocks and it will not fall down. Make an iron bar cage up top, that overhangs slightly. Now shoot away from every direction. 100+ explosive crossbow bolts. The quarter blocks gives you visibility from every direction, and you can shoot through the spaces with the bolts in any direction. It alot of fun.

 

This is not the result of the new AI. In 16.4 this tower would have been as easy and zombiesafe. If you got the ammo, no zombiehorde is a problem. IF you got the ammo

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This is not the result of the new AI. In 16.4 this tower would have been as easy and zombiesafe. If you got the ammo, no zombiehorde is a problem. IF you got the ammo

 

You are correct, this particular build would do good in both alphas. The only reason I brought it up is because it is a build that does not rely on tricking the pathing in A17. In A16, the horde would beat down from every direction, and not focus on a single point. This was actually more hectic. You didnt build bases to be 5 blocks thick in every direction. But in A17, once there is a weak point started, they all go running to it, making all your traps useless unless you fake out AI. And once you start faking out the AI, you quickly realize, the corridor trick is the most efficient. There is no reason to do anything more complicated. You could just sit there and kill only spiders and vultures and let the rest of them run around like lemmings until daylight, your perfectly safe. If you built that corridor in A16, you would not be able to keep them from destroying the platform your standing on in this design.

 

So the build I came up with was something different that has no reliance on AI pathing.

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You are correct, this particular build would do good in both alphas. The only reason I brought it up is because it is a build that does not rely on tricking the pathing in A17. In A16, the horde would beat down from every direction, and not focus on a single point. This was actually more hectic. You didnt build bases to be 5 blocks thick in every direction. But in A17, once there is a weak point started, they all go running to it, making all your traps useless unless you fake out AI. And once you start faking out the AI, you quickly realize, the corridor trick is the most efficient. There is no reason to do anything more complicated. You could just sit there and kill only spiders and vultures and let the rest of them run around like lemmings until daylight, your perfectly safe. If you built that corridor in A16, you would not be able to keep them from destroying the platform your standing on in this design.

 

So the build I came up with was something different that has no reliance on AI pathing.

 

Right. But I do remember that in A16 the zombies were mostly/always coming from one direction only. They did spread out more than in A17 but they only hit one side really.

 

Also you can prevent zombies in A17 to make weak routes through your spike walls if you put them level with the ground, see CraterCreator's avatar for a hint. I used concentric rings of spike traps and concrete blocks for my last horde base and the zombies have not just made a path, they attacked in a wide formation and at the end of the nights lots of spikes in a wide angle were used up.

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Right. But I do remember that in A16 the zombies were mostly/always coming from one direction only. They did spread out more than in A17 but they only hit one side really.

 

Also you can prevent zombies in A17 to make weak routes through your spike walls if you put them level with the ground, see CraterCreator's avatar for a hint. I used concentric rings of spike traps and concrete blocks for my last horde base and the zombies have not just made a path, they attacked in a wide formation and at the end of the nights lots of spikes in a wide angle were used up.

 

I’ve actually changed from digging a pit for my spikes to making a surrounding retaining wall for them. I place two rows of spikes above ground two levels high and then build a wall two blocks high around them with a single block ring around that. Works just as well and chopping trees feels faster to me than digging ditches.

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