Correct me if I'm wrong...

[AtomicUs5000]

Yes. Maybe some people like running away. It is stupid, but why take it away for literally NO REASON?

 

So you turn on horde night to run and avoid it? That's fun? Why bother? Aren't there other things to do in the game that are more fun than that?

I'm sorry, but the fun you have avoiding the horde by running around should not be a basis to leave the horde nights the way they are. They weren't created for that.

 

It's not like they said, hey let's spend thousands of person-hours developing this crazy system just so people can run around and avoid it.

[meganoth]

For me the whole situation is more annoying than threatening because I have prepared myself accordingly. But some players are a bit jumpy and afraid. That may not be rational, but many fears are irrational.

 

Balancing the game for irrational fears? I know someone who is experiencing a (small) fear of heights coming on standing on one of the high-rises. Surely that should not lead to a rule that the treasure room should never be on the top of high-rises, right?

 

I hope that the junk turret in A18 will give me the opportunity to build a defense where I don't have to constantly interrupt my work.

 

 

 

I don't even notice most of the wandering hordes. As already said, the whole thing annoys me more than it frightens me.

 

Junk turret is probably not a solution for this as it stops working when you go too far from it. May I suggest that you work too loud (using auger, not speccing into stealth) if you are constantly interrupted from your work.

 

Annoyance is a valid reason in my book, more than irrational fears. But people are annoyed at different things, "meditating through digging" is not in the game because of design but merely an accident of early alphas.

 

I don't think the last word on this is said though until the zombie AI and spawning rules are in their final state.

 

Yes. Maybe some people like running away. It is stupid, but why take it away for literally NO REASON?

 

It would be fitting in the game if it included some risk or needed driving skills (some sort of mini-game you had to succeed in) or had to pay a lot of resources for it. But just avoid the horde without risk is really bad for a game that isn't a do-anything-you-like sort of sandbox concept game. If you look at it from a risk-reward balance aspect, there is no risk and nearly all the reward as you don't have any serious expenses.

 

So the reason is there, same as you are supposed to scrounge for food in the early game. Maybe some people like not having to look for food (which is actually not stupid but still no good for a game). They don't get to choose whether they are hungry or not either.

[RipClaw]

Balancing the game for irrational fears? I know someone who is experiencing a (small) fear of heights coming on standing on one of the high-rises. Surely that should not lead to a rule that the treasure room should never be on the top of high-rises, right?

 

You don't have to balance the game for that but you should accept that these fears exists. Small things can help. For example a defense that protects the player while he doesn't hear anything because he is working with the auger. Or mods that can dampen the noise.

 

Junk turret is probably not a solution for this as it stops working when you go too far from it. May I suggest that you work too loud (using auger, not speccing into stealth) if you are constantly interrupted from your work.

 

I actually have 4 out of 5 points in From the Shadows. However, the description text is somewhat unclear under which conditions this advantage works. It says that it is easier to hide in the shadows and that the noise is better muffled. But is both depending on whether you are in the shadow ? And if I switch on my helmet light then I am no longer in the shadow. Doesn't that matter ?

 

But regardless of that, the perk doesn't matter if you work with the auger anyway. Since the auger generates a lot of heat one gets regular visits from the screamer.

 

As far as the Junk Turret is concerned, I would have simply taken it with me. A permanently installed defense doesn't help me if the mine gets bigger and bigger due to the mining and I move further and further away from the starting point. So a dynamic defense would be helpful.

 

Annoyance is a valid reason in my book, more than irrational fears. But people are annoyed at different things, "meditating through digging" is not in the game because of design but merely an accident of early alphas.

 

I don't think the last word on this is said though until the zombie AI and spawning rules are in their final state.

 

It may not have been part of the original game design, but it was part of the game for a long time. You can't blame players for enjoying an aspect of the game that is available. Whether that was intentional or not.

[meganoth]

You don't have to balance the game for that but you should accept that these fears exists. Small things can help. For example a defense that protects the player while he doesn't hear anything because he is working with the auger. Or mods that can dampen the noise.

 

Agree. Did you see in MMs video that a new perception perk is in A18 that might actually warn you of dangers (and I think zombies were included in this). We'll have to see if this actually helps. My guess is you would see red dots appear on the compass like in clear quests.

 

I actually have 4 out of 5 points in From the Shadows. However, the description text is somewhat unclear under which conditions this advantage works. It says that it is easier to hide in the shadows and that the noise is better muffled. But is both depending on whether you are in the shadow ? And if I switch on my helmet light then I am no longer in the shadow. Doesn't that matter ?

 

But regardless of that, the perk doesn't matter if you work with the auger anyway. Since the auger generates a lot of heat one gets regular visits from the screamer.

 

As far as the Junk Turret is concerned, I would have simply taken it with me. A permanently installed defense doesn't help me if the mine gets bigger and bigger due to the mining and I move further and further away from the starting point. So a dynamic defense would be helpful.

 

Yeah, the description doesn't really make it clear. But you can easily test that noise and light do increment the yellow bar less if you specc into the perk. My guess is that the headlamp is just another source of "noise/light" that adds up. But it isn't in the XML as far as I can see, so who knows?

 

Screamers don't spawn helpers and should not dig if they can't detect you. If you are deep enough and you work silently enough (and maybe use NV goggles) it doesn't matter that they get spawned.

 

It would be an interesting test to find out the depth at which you can auger freely with 5 points in From the Shadow. Anyway, in A18 you don't need to switch between shovel and pickaxe anymore so steel axe instead of auger should be viable if you don't want to be detected.

 

It may not have been part of the original game design, but it was part of the game for a long time. You can't blame players for enjoying an aspect of the game that is available. Whether that was intentional or not.

 

No, but it means there is never a guarantee that it stays in and being used to it in previous alphas is often not a compelling argument for keeping it.

[AtomicUs5000]

I am still thinking that zombies rushing in while mining is, or at least should be, a rare occurrence.

 

If you are using an auger, you would mining pretty quickly. Unless you are using the auger to drill out a large room and you start building right after, without checking things out on top first, they just are not going to get to you fast enough.

Otherwise, you are probably drilling out a tunnel, and like I said before, all that horizontal movement is only going to make them take longer to get to you. Not to mention, you will be moving through chunks, so that heat will be spread out and not as concentrated.

 

People have mentioned that this happens from time to time. It's usually shocking, unforgettable. However, for the people who have had this happen to them, I doubt that for many of them it has happened ever again. While a select few of those few might have given up on mining and stay on the surface, I would think that even more people figured out what they did wrong and mine a little safer now.

 

The ways this will surely happen:

 

1) Using an auger in one spot for too long without going to the surface to check things out periodically. Getting caught up in the moment and forgetting about your survival is player error.

 

2) Not taking care of holes from previous zombie digs. This is player error. It's equivalent to not repairing your vase but still expecting it to hold up the next horde night.

 

3) Mining too close to the surface with or without an auger. Doing so is player error. You're just asking for it.

 

Junk turret might be a bad idea in a hallway, though I don't know how accurate it will be until we use it. In a tunnel you are likely to mine for a bit, go back, pick it up, bring it closer to the end and place it, then continue mining. Repeat as necessary. If you are mining a tunnel, and happen to be mining it slowly enough for the zombies to actually catch up to you, when they do break through, it will most likely be some place in between you and the turret. It will be facing your direction. That could be a problem.

 

When I mine tunnels, I get the resources, but the tunnel becomes a new safe route. Being so, I want it to be safe, so I always make a ceiling of concrete... if not right away, probably the next time I run through it. There have been times when I zombies were digging above me as I can see it on the surface. They are never that deep because they are slow. However, these mining tunnels get longer over time and any zombies that might be in holes just despawn as I run back through them to the starting point.

 

The problem, for as little it occurs (or for as little as it should occur if you play safe), is so minuscule that it is ridiculous to even worry about making it easier on people.

 

Digging zombies was a very small enhancement to the horde night system, but it was an enhancement for the sake of horde night. So back on point, more features like this should be and probably will be worked on for future alphas... because the way it stands now, the horde night they envisioned and put so much work into bringing to us is immediately deterred by a few cheesy tactics.

[meganoth]

I

Junk turret might be a bad idea in a hallway, though I don't know how accurate it will be until we use it. In a tunnel you are likely to mine for a bit, go back, pick it up, bring it closer to the end and place it, then continue mining. Repeat as necessary. If you are mining a tunnel, and happen to be mining it slowly enough for the zombies to actually catch up to you, when they do break through, it will most likely be some place in between you and the turret. It will be facing your direction. That could be a problem.

 

Two words: penetration perk