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Roland

LBD talk is RIGHT HERE

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Madmole has requested a few times now for LBD discussion to cease in the A18 dev thread. I will now be enforcing those requests. All LBD discussion should happen here.

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Royal Deluxe made a mod a while ago that adds a completely zombie-proof block. Maybe that would help?

 

While that might be interesting, for my intents and purposes, I would settle for being able to turn off their ability to dig.

 

That's not true for me, I watched A14 on YouTube and was so fascinated by the mechanics that when A15 came out I bought the game. It was BECAUSE of the mining, crafting and building. The zombies are just a side event to add a challenge.

 

A17 is too much of killing and shooting. I got to level 40 and was as good as invulnerable and bored, nothing left to do, too much dukes I didn't need anymore, nothing to loot as it is not relevant what you find. I also loved the gunparts and so on. If I want a shooting game I look for a FPS game, that's not why I bought 7d2d.

 

Just my experience and opinion.

 

edit: And yes the graphics have improved, the mod slots, improved vultures and quests are a nice addition. Hope to see game mechanics back in future updates.

 

Thank you. I agree, they are trying way to hard to make it look like every other FPS/battle royal game that is the flavor of the week for the local middle school crowd.

 

It has been dumbed down to the point where it is just another FPS shooter were you grind XP, it has lost much of the flavor that originally attracted a lot of players.

 

 

Book and perk localization is 99% done. There's some new functionality we're waiting on but most of the content is coming online. We're progressing nicely.

 

Can we get rid of those retarded magazines? Maybe shift back toward learn by doing a little more to make it less about the XP grind?

 

Haters...

 

It is not hate mr. Mole, it all comes with love even if the wrapping could be better at times.

 

I sincerely hope that you do not take the feedback you get from us as hate and negativity all the time. It might come off as harsh at times, I agree but again, it is all from the love for the game.

 

You see, you and your crew are doing something unique, something unheard of, something exceptional...allowing us to be right up here with you (almost) every step of the way.

 

I for one heart you all for it, but I can also see that it touches something within us, the feeling of “ownership” to what we are a part of and that is what creates the wrapping we deliver the feedback in.

 

I rarely make claims but I do feel I can claim this. No other game developer have created their game as openly and close to their community as TFP have done with 7 Days and I thank you for it.

 

I agree, it is not about hate by any stretch.

 

If anything the people you see bitching on the forum here all want the same thing. We want the game to be as good as possible, which is why we get up in arms when it takes a (in some opinions) a wrong turn.

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Can we get rid of those retarded magazines? Maybe shift back toward learn by doing a little more to make it less about the XP grind?

 

I think madmole already said the magazines were getting removed/repurposed. Learn by Doing was already rejected by the devs in this thread multiple times. Weird to want to make it less about the XP grind but more about the LBD grind, which, in effect, is a slower grind :p

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I think madmole already said the magazines were getting removed/repurposed. Learn by Doing was already rejected by the devs in this thread multiple times. Weird to want to make it less about the XP grind but more about the LBD grind, which, in effect, is a slower grind :p

 

The difference is that the LBD grind is much more tied to what you do.

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How so? In 17.0 everyone was crying how hard the game is, what has changed?

 

There is a difference between difficulty and challenging.

 

Zombies used to be erratic like.... well... zombies.

A mindless horde that used large numbers to overwhelm defenses.

You build fortifications and then defend them from the mindless horde = FUN!

 

Now they are too smart for their own good.

 

There is no reason to build walls because they would simply shred any wall you put in front of them, so now we build mazes instead of walls, or just kite them.

Instead of an epic siege to test your base design.... we have Monkeys vs Bloons.

While that maybe entertaining in the short run, it gets old. Fast.

 

Combine that with the new XP grind system and the game has lost much of its appeal.

Horde night is just a conga line of XP being delivered to my front door like pizza

No fun, no challenge, just a mindless shooting gallery.

 

Seriously, I never really noticed or cared about what "level" my character was in A16 and I LOVED it that way.

My progress was based on actually playing the game... exploring... finding the books I needed... finding the resources I needed...

trying to get something built before the end of the week.

It was not perfect, but it was a highly enjoyable sandbox experience.

 

Learn by doing was FAR superior, it was interesting, it made SENSE.

 

If I wanted to get better and mining to buy the next perk, I had to go do some mining.

Now I can max out my mining skills without ever digging a hole.

If I wanted to get better with a shotgun, I actually had to USE a shotgun.

Now I can max out my shotgun skills without even owning a shotgun.

 

It was far more entertaining/immersive/fun in A16.4, I could play for hundreds of hours on the same map, exploring and building... there was always something to do, some defenses that needed improvement, books to find, a better engine/batter/whatever for the minibike, a real reason to explore.

 

Between the AI changes (minimal base building) and the perk/progression (grind XP)

changes, what is the point of the game now?

 

Since A17 I find myself constantly starting new maps instead of spending hundreds of hours on building bases with my friends because the game play is stale, generic, predictable, i.e., boring as ♥♥♥♥.

 

As much as I like all the new vehicles and content... I would rather just have my little minibike and a fun sandboxy game to play, than a linear, boring, wannabe RPG that is stuck so hard to the rails that every single play through is completely identical. A17 has ZERO replay value.

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Im A16 I could max mining without ever digging a hole or using any mining tool...just sayin. Level up, put points in mining and miner 69er... wasnt that hard.

 

Nah, not really before they introduced that zombie kill exp. At least it was terribly inefficient. And I insist on my belief that the main advantage of A16 LBD was not having a global exp system.

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I personally am glad that spam crafting to learn by doing is a thing of the past. To me having to make a zillion stone axes or grass shirts to level up a skill was stupid and boring. All night long I would sit and make junk so I could level up a skill. Now, I go out at night and explore or gather resources so that during the day I can raid POI's.

As for gun parts, how many of you have gun barrels or parts in your house. I would bet not many. I have two rifles, three pistols, and two shotguns. It never made sense to find gun parts and not complete weapons. The only place I would expect to find gun parts would be in a gun shop. Now should I be able to scrap said items for parts? Absolutely.

I build my base the same way since Alpha 13 or 14 except that I had to replace the wood log traps with the spikes. Sure, the zombies can break down your base, but if you don't like the speed that they destroy your base then change the setting for them to cause less block damage or mod down their damage. You have always been able to cheese the AI. It's really no worse now that it was before. I, for one, do not choose to cheese the AI. If you don't think you have enough challenge on a blood moon, increase the number of zombies. I use twelve instead of eight to give me a better challenge.

As for replay-ability, I love starting the game. I usually get bored with a single play through by day thirty because right now there is a lack of end game play, but I know they will place that in the game before gold. But, even if not, I like the first twenty days in the game building my base and exploring.

No, I don't like everything about the game in 17.2. The stuff I don't like, I either mod it out or mod it in. Overall, I think TFP are doing a great job. I'm looking forward to 17.3 to try out the 'new' RWG.

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I personally am glad that spam crafting to learn by doing is a thing of the past. To me having to make a zillion stone axes or grass shirts to level up a skill was stupid and boring.

 

Stating the obvious but spam crafting != LBD

If memory serves, they had removed spam crafting before LBD anyway, after A15.

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Stating the obvious but spam crafting != LBD

If memory serves, they had removed spam crafting before LBD anyway, after A15.

 

no idea why ppl still equate those two things.

while I personally had no problem with it since it was player choice, I understand that it wasn'T for everyone.

But they removed it in a16 and it was great.

And I even liked that you could buy some stuff with xp.

It was a good balance.

"You want to effectively dig your mote but don't want to spend hours leveling it? Put your xp into it that you could spend on perks that are way more efficient. Your choice!"

 

Now its: "Kill 50 zombies to get that skill! Kill another 70 to get the next. Kill another 120 to finally get that car that you... oh you aren't lvl 50 yet. Kill another 400 zombies to get that then."

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Why kill 400 zombies when you can just mine 400 rocks or chop 400 trees. I level much faster by mining rocks and chopping trees than I do killing zombies except on blood moons. Killing 400 zombies would also be level by doing.

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no idea why ppl still equate those two things.

while I personally had no problem with it since it was player choice, I understand that it wasn'T for everyone.

But they removed it in a16 and it was great.

And I even liked that you could buy some stuff with xp.

It was a good balance.

"You want to effectively dig your mote but don't want to spend hours leveling it? Put your xp into it that you could spend on perks that are way more efficient. Your choice!"

 

Now its: "Kill 50 zombies to get that skill! Kill another 70 to get the next. Kill another 120 to finally get that car that you... oh you aren't lvl 50 yet. Kill another 400 zombies to get that then."

 

 

Pretty sure MM mentioned level gates are going away. So if that's correct, at least when you buy the perk you can then craft the item which'll be much better.

 

Anyway, LBD makes sense for somethings. 'Fitness' for example. Best system in any game ever was in GTA San Andreas where running and hitting the gym made your toon fit while eating burgers and driving everywhere turned you into a marshmallow. Wish that kind of system would appear in more games.

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no idea why ppl still equate those two things.

while I personally had no problem with it since it was player choice, I understand that it wasn'T for everyone.

But they removed it in a16 and it was great.

And I even liked that you could buy some stuff with xp.

It was a good balance.

"You want to effectively dig your mote but don't want to spend hours leveling it? Put your xp into it that you could spend on perks that are way more efficient. Your choice!"

 

Now its: "Kill 50 zombies to get that skill! Kill another 70 to get the next. Kill another 120 to finally get that car that you... oh you aren't lvl 50 yet. Kill another 400 zombies to get that then."

 

Zombie kill XP imo was one of the worst decisions ever been taken for the game. It has created all sorts of "negative synergies".

 

As for spam crafting, I am a firm believer that it could work. If they increased its cost - made it have recipe-specific diminishing benefits etc, everyone would be happy and none would be "inclined to use it" and ruin their experience.

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As for spam crafting, I am a firm believer that it could work. If they increased its cost - made it have recipe-specific diminishing benefits etc, everyone would be happy and none would be "inclined to use it" and ruin their experience.

 

Diminishing benefits may have helped in the long run, but the start of the game would still have been the same. You have a number of recipes that add to ability X, you craft each of them until the benefit gets too low.

 

If I remember correctly Roland always gave the reason that you could get XP parallel to other XP generating activities that really put a nail in the coffin of craft XP. That reason would also still be valid even with diminishing returns.

 

Now craft grind is a mechanism that works perfectly well in MMOs all over the world and especially in the asia grinders. For the right players it will be a godsend. For some others something they can largely ignore. I just don't agree with "everyone will be happy". THAT never happens.

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The difference is that the LBD grind is much more tied to what you do.

 

It severely limits player choice. Do anything fun get xp, buy what you want with that xp, not be locked into repetitive grindy actions that force you to do stupid things like get stabbed to improve your armor ability.

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There is a difference between difficulty and challenging.

 

Zombies used to be erratic like.... well... zombies.

A mindless horde that used large numbers to overwhelm defenses.

You build fortifications and then defend them from the mindless horde = FUN!

 

Now they are too smart for their own good.

 

There is no reason to build walls because they would simply shred any wall you put in front of them, so now we build mazes instead of walls, or just kite them.

Instead of an epic siege to test your base design.... we have Monkeys vs Bloons.

While that maybe entertaining in the short run, it gets old. Fast.

 

Combine that with the new XP grind system and the game has lost much of its appeal.

Horde night is just a conga line of XP being delivered to my front door like pizza

No fun, no challenge, just a mindless shooting gallery.

 

Seriously, I never really noticed or cared about what "level" my character was in A16 and I LOVED it that way.

My progress was based on actually playing the game... exploring... finding the books I needed... finding the resources I needed...

trying to get something built before the end of the week.

It was not perfect, but it was a highly enjoyable sandbox experience.

 

Learn by doing was FAR superior, it was interesting, it made SENSE.

 

If I wanted to get better and mining to buy the next perk, I had to go do some mining.

Now I can max out my mining skills without ever digging a hole.

If I wanted to get better with a shotgun, I actually had to USE a shotgun.

Now I can max out my shotgun skills without even owning a shotgun.

 

It was far more entertaining/immersive/fun in A16.4, I could play for hundreds of hours on the same map, exploring and building... there was always something to do, some defenses that needed improvement, books to find, a better engine/batter/whatever for the minibike, a real reason to explore.

 

Between the AI changes (minimal base building) and the perk/progression (grind XP)

changes, what is the point of the game now?

 

Since A17 I find myself constantly starting new maps instead of spending hundreds of hours on building bases with my friends because the game play is stale, generic, predictable, i.e., boring as ♥♥♥♥.

 

As much as I like all the new vehicles and content... I would rather just have my little minibike and a fun sandboxy game to play, than a linear, boring, wannabe RPG that is stuck so hard to the rails that every single play through is completely identical. A17 has ZERO replay value.

I quit reading at LBD. I do think we're addressing most of the big complaints and with the huge perk reorganize no play there will be 5 major archetypes and dozens of hybrid classes.

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Diminishing benefits may have helped in the long run, but the start of the game would still have been the same. You have a number of recipes that add to ability X, you craft each of them until the benefit gets too low.

 

If I remember correctly Roland always gave the reason that you could get XP parallel to other XP generating activities that really put a nail in the coffin of craft XP. That reason would also still be valid even with diminishing returns.

 

Now craft grind is a mechanism that works perfectly well in MMOs all over the world and especially in the asia grinders. For the right players it will be a godsend. For some others something they can largely ignore. I just don't agree with "everyone will be happy". THAT never happens.

 

True, when saying everyone would be happy I mostly mean that those who do want to use it and enjoy it will be happy, those who are inclined to use it but don't enjoy it won't be inclined anymore and those who want to ignore it will just ignore it without feeling gimped.

 

And yes, diminishing benefits alone won't be enough. But a certain combination would definitely do the trick. For example increasing the cost of "spam crafting" by making the yield percentage of scrapped materials depend on the level of skill (especially for early game). Or also adding a time-dependent diminishing return with a random range so that it will become impossible for players to track it. Plus making these diminishing returns steep enough, so that the whole process would not be worth being micromanaged while doing other activities.

 

The whole point would be de-incetivizing players from spam crafting the new recipes at each "threshold" and making it more worth using the recipes only when they actually need the item, while also leaving the possibility of some "more realistic" spam crafting for min-maxers. In my eyes it would be worth salvaging that system, because crafters in general would have their own non-annoying immersive exclusive source of exp. Anyway not claiming any of these would fix it to perfection, but I think it's definitely not impossible to fix. The solutions one can find are the only limit.

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That is not a bug, but non functional entity. There is huge difference. Bugs are like misspell, or something not working as expected. RWG is rewritten for a18, so no in bug status for a17x

 

.....

 

Did you quote the wrong post? I did not say anything about bugs at all.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

It makes a difference whether you are a single player or a group. You have to keep in mind that these players have to share the resources.

 

Since zombies are no longer a source of bones, you have to be very methodical to get enough bones / glue / tape for a larger group. This includes utilizing the respawn and visiting POIs once a week that are known to contain a larger number of animals. For example the Doggos and "Carl's Corns and Bob's Boars".

 

Meh, more payers means more people scaving. The problem is not that those resources are shared but rather if you are being economical with those resources or not. Go around blasting everything, you are going to have a tape and bullet problem. Use stone arrows and clubs, bones will never be an issue.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

I'm not going to say no.

 

But we are not looking for what you are NOT going to say but rather what you actually said :p

 

We have focus groups testing this so it will be better in A18.

 

Good news. I still think Roland's idea on XP is the way to go - zeds should not be a resource.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Probably why it's a mod and not vanilla. Couple that with the medieval mod or fantasy mod and you have a whole NEW game.

 

Post was intended to celebrate the awesomeness of 7days modability, no need to bunch your underwear that tightly.

 

And awesome it was. I would not have expected visuals like that to work in this game.

 

And finally:

 

 

 

LBD is D. E. A. D.

 

End of story. It's not coming back. Why are we still reading LBDgate posts....

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LBD is D. E. A. D.

 

End of story. It's not coming back. Why are we still reading LBDgate posts....

 

Given that folks like me keep modding it back in, and we're often complimented on the fact that it's back, I think we can say that there are players out there who enjoy it.

 

I'm not asking TFP to bring it back, even though I feel it was a poor decision... Skyrim had it, as an example, and the only time I ever felt I needed to GRIND it in that game was literally the armor/weapon crafting.

 

But it would be nice if TFP finished hooking up the code so skills were more than just a category sub-heading so we don't have to rely on cvars... which cause server issues... and DLL patches just to get it working.

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Given that folks like me keep modding it back in, and we're often complimented on the fact that it's back, I think we can say that there are players out there who enjoy it.

 

I'm not asking TFP to bring it back, even though I feel it was a poor decision... Skyrim had it, as an example, and the only time I ever felt I needed to GRIND it in that game was literally the armor/weapon crafting.

 

But it would be nice if TFP finished hooking up the code so skills were more than just a category sub-heading so we don't have to rely on cvars... which cause server issues... and DLL patches just to get it working.

 

+1 for modders.

+2 for TFP making it possible.

:D

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Given that folks like me keep modding it back in, and we're often complimented on the fact that it's back, I think we can say that there are players out there who enjoy it.

 

I'm not asking TFP to bring it back, even though I feel it was a poor decision... Skyrim had it, as an example, and the only time I ever felt I needed to GRIND it in that game was literally the armor/weapon crafting.

 

But it would be nice if TFP finished hooking up the code so skills were more than just a category sub-heading so we don't have to rely on cvars... which cause server issues... and DLL patches just to get it working.

 

I could not give you more of a standing ovation on this. There was no need for them to remove the coding to begin with. Keep it as an option for modders, With things being so mod friendly now why would you kill a tool we could have used to enhance the gameplay.

 

And Khaine is 100 percent right. Literally the first thing people are excited to have back when they play our mods are the Action Skills. People want to shoot at a wall to level their pistol go ahead. YOU'RE the idiot wasting in game time. But 16 had it perfect. You could go kill zombies to level your weapon of choice OR you could spend a point or three and not worry about it. Why that was removed when you guys all but took care of spam crafting is beyond me. Spam crafting was no longer even part of the equation.

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last time I talked about that people got crazy on me

 

I don't know a single person that wanted that out of the game, but u know.. not much we can do at this point

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I could not give you more of a standing ovation on this. There was no need for them to remove the coding to begin with. Keep it as an option for modders, With things being so mod friendly now why would you kill a tool we could have used to enhance the gameplay.

 

And Khaine is 100 percent right. Literally the first thing people are excited to have back when they play our mods are the Action Skills. People want to shoot at a wall to level their pistol go ahead. YOU'RE the idiot wasting in game time. But 16 had it perfect. You could go kill zombies to level your weapon of choice OR you could spend a point or three and not worry about it. Why that was removed when you guys all but took care of spam crafting is beyond me. Spam crafting was no longer even part of the equation.

 

Fully agree.

What I liked was that you had those LBD skills you were trying level up. If you were desperate, or the kind of person who thinks it's more fun to get points doing other things and applying them to whatever you wanted, you could invest into that LBD skill that way. Though, of course, this would be a poor choice because why waste points on something you could in fact, learn by doing.

 

Isn't that always the argument though? LBD was boring, nobody wants to grind, it's more fun to invest points in whatever you want. Um, hello... we could do that. The grind is the same, it just favors a grind of zombie killing. Lastly, if I am gaining mining skill because I am mining... it couldn't be more obvious that I like to mine! Why would I grind mining if I didn't like to mine? How can I even call it grinding if I enjoy it and I would want points in it anyway? Makes no sense. But I'll tell you what the real problem was. The problem was you had to grind things to level up because of LEVEL GATES.... which have nothing to do with LBD. Notice level gates are going away soon. Why? Because they suck.

 

People can continue to call LBD what they will... but I will always know that the LBD system of the past would have done great if only the stupid level gates were removed.

 

EDIT: It's not even that I really care about LBD so much that I couldn't find enjoyment in some other system. What gets me heated is that people will blame LBD for their need to grind so much in the previous system. Few people will realize that the problem was the gates that would force people into doing things they didn't want to do.

I am a big fan of playing a game the way you want to play it. However, this is a survival game. As a side note, there should be some things you need to do that you don't want to. This shouldn't be all fun and games. Sometimes the fun comes from completing things you hate because of the survival nature of the game., but being able to say you did it anyway... because you are a survivor.

 

LBD WAS M.U.R.D.E.R.E.D.

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<snipped for space>

 

It's rare to see Roland, Trolland and Ronald in the same place together.

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Given that folks like me keep modding it back in, and we're often complimented on the fact that it's back, I think we can say that there are players out there who enjoy it.

 

I'm not asking TFP to bring it back, even though I feel it was a poor decision... Skyrim had it, as an example, and the only time I ever felt I needed to GRIND it in that game was literally the armor/weapon crafting.

 

But it would be nice if TFP finished hooking up the code so skills were more than just a category sub-heading so we don't have to rely on cvars... which cause server issues... and DLL patches just to get it working.

 

I liked it, and it makes more sense then magically learning how to be better at something by spending a point in it. I especally find the crafting perks stupid, you spend the point but they seem to pull this knowledge out of their ass on how to make this stuff. I mean the books in a16 made sense, spending a point then magically being able to build a car? just doesn't feel right.

 

In other news, there a thread somewhere with a collection of answers devs have given to questions or about what will be in a18? as I don't feel like going thru this entire thread from page 1 to find the info. I know we got a new gun coming... not that I care though tbh, I bascally never use guns, to noisy, draws extra zombies that spawn in, the silencer in a17.2 is bascally worthless as it doesn't even work. I liked the one from valmod in a16, it made guns quiet enough that you could fire a shot or 2 in a poi without it waking everything up in the entire poi. Used to clean poi's with the sniper rifle without waking up a single zombie. Mind you even then, I mostly just used a bow/crossbow as it did the job just as well, and its ammo is bascally free.

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