One Should Form One's Own Opinion!

[Brixmis]

I've been avoiding A17 since it was released in experimental due to the large number of "WTF?!" style comments.

 

I've been playing A9 - brought back some great memories. But then I remembered a previous release that we had - think it was A11 - when there were also a huge amount of moans (admittedly that was mostly about performance - which I had zero issues with) and the huge amount of complaints I've read over the years about dogs, hornets and melee, whilst I have myself never had any issues with any of those being in the game. Bugs happen - it's an alpha, so bugs have never bothered me much, and when I got savaged by hellhounds it was just too bad - they gave me something to fear.

 

So yesterday I installed A17 to finally have a go. I know there have been changes and balancing and so-on, as there normally is, but what was all that fuss about? The only thing that has disappointed me so far is the lack of loot on zeds. I used to seek out certain zeds for certain types of loot (eg nurses for meds), but that's gone, which is a shame, so I'm guessing the single reason to look for fighting zeds is for XP.

 

I've just spent my first night in the usual manner - in a quickly assembled wooden hut on top of a cottage roof, feeling safe as houses (scuse the pun) and digging through my loot of the day to see what I can craft to help me through day 2.

 

Mind you - I had a couple of very near misses (the trees should go back to killing zeds when you drop one on them - that is fun!) and suffered a -12% injury, but otherwise happy as Larry, so far.

[Aerial]

A17 has a bunch of new, different stuff so the first few games, or the first 200 days, or whatever your standard "play-through" is, is pretty fun.

 

What A17 lacks is replayability. Each game is just like the next, each POI is just like the next, each horde night is just like the next.

[AtomicUs5000]

The first few builds had some major issues, not to mention a lot of unexpectedly changed features. Each on their own probably would have caused some of the posts you are referring to, but the both together probably caused some players to go into a frenzy.

Another part of the problem was that there was a huge gap in time between A16 and A17 because TFP had to pretty much redo everything to comply with the latest Unity engine. I’m sure many people were expecting something amazing due to that duration. I also assume that TFP felt pressured to get it released due to that duration.

A18 will be the A17 we were hoping for.

[Minandreas]

Ya, the current build is not what the initial one was. This one is pretty solid. Initially the stamina loss just trying to harvest stuff was so bad I would watch youtube while playing...

[UtahSleeper]

I have tried to play A17, but my main enjoyment from playing was trying to find books for auger, minibike, etc. The book hunts and random loot from zombies made it more enjoyable for me. Now it's just an XP grind to get the abilities you want, not a easter egg hunt.

 

To me, the old books felt more like how it might have been if there was a zombie apocalypse. You wake up knowing nothing and you need to make something to survive, you find a book. The wife and I have random chats about stuff like that. If an apocalypse were to happen, we would try and hit a book store first for material on how to do things we don't know.

 

Thats just me though.

[Fox]

A10.4 is in my opinion the best version of the game. A17 is like a completely different game... a game I didn't ask for and not sure if I want or not. It's not a terrible version, but compared to previous versions, I think it's a big step backwards which is annoying. It feels like a slow grind and the game forces you to have a specific play style in order to level up quicker. Hopefully they'll release several balance patches soon.

[zombo]

(the trees should go back to killing zeds when you drop one on them - that is fun!)

 

They do, it's just kinda hard to pull it off. Like sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Keep trying, you'll see!

 

And good luck with opinions, everyone has one and everyone thinks they are right. Myself included. I personally think A17 is the best version of the game and far more replayable then a16, yet I HATE...

 

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAATE!!!

 

HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE

The edward norton hulk movie...

 

Yet most people seem to think it was great... Go figure... Opinions make me HANGRY! RAWR!

[Roland]

They do, it's just kinda hard to pull it off. Like sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Keep trying, you'll see!

 

And good luck with opinions, everyone has one and everyone thinks they are right. Myself included. I personally think A17 is the best version of the game and far more replayable then a16, yet I HATE...

 

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAATE!!!

 

HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE

The edward norton hulk movie...

 

Yet most people seem to think it was great... Go figure... Opinions make me HANGRY! RAWR!

 

I have thoroughly enjoyed A17 and have started over several times already and not had any issues with early game burnout any more or less than other versions of the game. The early game is the best. Always was and always will be.

 

Also, the only good Hulk movie was Thor Ragnarok.

[zombo]

I have thoroughly enjoyed A17 and have started over several times already and not had any issues with early game burnout any more or less than other versions of the game. The early game is the best. Always was and always will be.

 

Also, the only good Hulk movie was Thor Ragnarok.

 

 

Yeah, I really do feel that a good solid foundation is being laid here that is compelling to me to use it like a sandbox (to invent my own ways to play), where as the old versions Fox likes- while good fun indeed, I got bored of them in 1-2 IRL days. I had everything worth having so quick in those versions, and I don't really see how it had a lot of different ways to go about playing it? It was so barebones back then. Get books, make forge, win, run out of reasons to play fast.

 

It wasn't until alpha 13 that I finally thought this was a epic 5 star game. Once levelling entered the picture and the game become more of a slow grind I was very happy! Many hours sitting around the campfire with friends and crafting. Had all sorts of problems (no scrap\drop key) but it was a muuuuuch more interesting game then what we had before that point, and finally felt like a world to live and work in. That was the first version I really cared to build an epic base in, because I was far more interested and invested mentally.

 

And that's kinda how zomboid plays out too on default xp gain- it's a very slow grind to level crafting and such, I am totally about that kind of thing! I just wish there was useful things to craft in that game heh. I wonder if Fox likes that game and that aspect of it? WHAT DOES THE FOX SAY?

[Brixmis]

Ya, the current build is not what the initial one was. This one is pretty solid. Initially the stamina loss just trying to harvest stuff was so bad I would watch youtube while playing...

 

This was what was mostly on my mind as I was gathering stuff and initially avoiding zeds. I was waiting for some terminal hit that never came.

 

I think it looks a lot better, with the exception of one type of tree that looks a bit naff in the middle-distance.

 

The new tactic seems to be, after finding a house - knock the door open, run away (well, a hundred or so yards away) and wait for the flock to come out and get shot or scatter, then return and carefully check it out. I was very wary at any building after the horror stories I'd read about booby traps etc - but so far only found buildings jam-packed with zeds.

 

Anyway, I'm only at the begnning, so still lots to find and do. Have to work out whether to build my own independent base (as I did in A8 to A10) or build one in an available POI (as I have done since A13).

[Jamey]

Mind you - I had a couple of very near misses (the trees should go back to killing zeds when you drop one on them - that is fun!) and suffered a -12% injury, but otherwise happy as Larry, so far.

I’m glad that you’re having fun so far.

 

My big problems with A17 are things like:

• Dieing reduces your skills (including blocking crafting recipes) for an extended period of time (I think 30 min now)
  
• Overheating reduces your skills while overheated
  
• Hunger reduces your max health/stamina and thirst reduces stamina regen, but neither huger nor thirst are on the primary UI
  
• Dear god, the number of feral and radiated zombies as game stage goes up. At some point a switch flips and every POI and horde requires so many bullets that it is ludicrous
  

 

For me, those sorts of issues soured me on A17. Also, my gaming group has decided to skip A17 due to these issues and the problems with random gen. We hope that A18 will be in better shape, because A17 was quite a disappointment.

[Rez090]

I have tried to play A17, but my main enjoyment from playing was trying to find books for auger, minibike, etc. The book hunts and random loot from zombies made it more enjoyable for me. Now it's just an XP grind to get the abilities you want, not a easter egg hunt.

 

To me, the old books felt more like how it might have been if there was a zombie apocalypse. You wake up knowing nothing and you need to make something to survive, you find a book. The wife and I have random chats about stuff like that. If an apocalypse were to happen, we would try and hit a book store first for material on how to do things we don't know.

 

Thats just me though.

You'll hit up a library too, right?

[UtahSleeper]

You'll hit up a library too, right?

 

Of course!!! Really, you base it on where you are at when it all goes down. Schools would also be a great place to look.

[Rez090]

Of course!!! Really, you base it on where you are at when it all goes down. Schools would also be a great place to look.

 

I asked because book stores aren't fairing well with the digital age, where I live there is only 1 book store within 50 miles, where there is at least 3 or 4 libraries within the same distance.

[AtomicUs5000]

You can tell how old this game is... libraries and bookstores are almost extinct.

[Roland]

You can tell how old this game is... libraries and bookstores are almost extinct.

 

yep.. Should change them to Shamazon Distribution Centers...

[AtomicUs5000]

I think it looks a lot better, with the exception of one type of tree that looks a bit naff in the middle-distance.

 

Are you talking about the small dead, branchy trees that are all blurry and don't render in the good model until you are like 7-10 blocks away? I can't stand those. The graphics anger me so much. I showed madmole those, but he didn't really say anything about them.

 

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?111778-Alpha-18-Dev-Diary!!&p=957412#post957412

[Viktoriusiii]

They have fixed some of the major issues since .0

 

But there still are major issues with this version, bugs not included.

You always go more or less the same route with your levels.

Good perks are levelgated so after you have basic preparations it evolves into a leveling simulator.

Zombies are retardedly intelligent now. And instead of taking away blockdamage while they are THIS intelligent (I know ai gets fixed supposedly for A18, but right now hordenights aren't fun but a chore), they leave us with nothing. Yay exploits are the only way to defend yourself (we had shotguns, molovovs multiple fallback points and still only held our base at day 7 for about 3 hours, either you run around outside kiting them or you abuse the ai. normal basedefense is impossible, at least in the first hordenights)

 

Progression is completely scrambled. I found an ak, and auger and a chainsaw before day 7. Because weaponparts have been replaced with mods, they increased the chance to find whole weapons drastically.

 

And so much more.

 

Yes if you are a new player, there is loads to do and explore. That is because it is still 7d2d and they upgraded the graphics and added more pois.

But for experienced players, most of us (and yes I asked around quite a lot and even some of those beeing adamant defenders here in the forum about A17 told me they are disappointed, but don't want to drag down the game because they want to hold up hope) simply find it boring when compared to A16.

 

Back then there was way WAY more variation in playstyle. Now you always go more or less the same perkroute.

Back then there was way more variation in gunplay. Sometimes I would buy me a level 30(super bad) pistol from the trader oin day 7 just so that I had one. But sometimes I found a lvl 400+ sledgehammer in the first 7 days and went full melee until I found an AK.

Back then building up defenses was worth the effort! The more you spent on defence, the less work you had on hordenight.

 

 

Don't get me wrong. Vehicles, arrowphysics, ragdoll, graphics ressourcegathering and more are GREAT additions to the game.

But that is bonus content. The CORE gameplay (RWG will be fixed, but I'm talking about now) is completely f***ed over.

Progression is scrambled, perks onedimensional, zombie defenses boring and even melee fighting has become less fun (although that can be debated).

 

 

So yeah. It is still a good game for new players/players coming back after years.

But that is not the core playerbase of this game.

33% positive on steam in january, still after 2 alphas and a lot of cooldown recovered to 57% (before it was 82-84% and that was low bc ppl were waiting 1 1/2 years for an update calling it "dead")

 

And all this still does not factor in that the devs are stubborn and either ignoring playerfeedback or trying to stretch the truth with vague playernumbers. I love the game still. But I can not recommend it anymore (and I made 7 of my friends buy it in A12-A16) until A18 shows a clear improvement on all those aspects.

 

 

*edit* and there are quite a lot more issues I have not listed because I know they are working on it. RWG, traders, quests, performance Zombieai and so on which all are problems of their own.

[AtomicUs5000]

...

 

That is a great summary of what I have experienced as well. I am assuming that most of this is coming from a Single Player perspective because that's how I normally play and this description is almost to a "T".

 

They will argue until they are they blue that the new system offers more variety. I suppose you could force yourself to take some kind of different route with the perks, but you tend to stick with what you know works for you. Supposedly for A18, this could change with more advanced perk trees and specializations... but I am worried about it. As a single player, in order to survive reasonably, you need to have a nice balance of everything. The new setup has the potential to force a SP to specialize when they really need to be a jack of all trades. I guess we'll see how it goes. Another possible outcome of what is to come is that a single player still ends up choosing the same perk path because again, we tend to go with what works for us. I think what we really need are circumstances that can happen in the world that affects our decisions more, and could force us into going a certain path we wouldn't normally go.

[R0bb0b]

1. TFP uprooted the entire skill, book and learning system and replaced it with this very static feeling xp grind. The game no longer molds itself around your playstyle but rather forces you to grind for a standard ladder style skill system that includes all recipes. Not only that but they put XP right in front of your face at all times so you are always reminded of the carrot that you are chasing. It's actually quite annoying.

2. Zombie AI is now full tower defense where they run in a straight line and will path through a maze while you pick them off. If you look at other base designs you now see a common thread, which is to trick the AI into pathing a certain direction. This is annoying.

3. Pretty much all POIs are now zombie sleep farm dungeon crawls with loot at the end. Zombies sleeping in the ceiling, on bookshelves, inside closets and anywhere else that a zombie most likely would not be. While this may be fun at first, it also gets annoying after a while.

 

I simply have no desire to play this game anymore, which is very disappointing because up until this point I had held 7dtd on a pedestal as the best game I'd ever played.

[meganoth]

That is a great summary of what I have experienced as well. I am assuming that most of this is coming from a Single Player perspective because that's how I normally play and this description is almost to a "T".

 

They will argue until they are they blue that the new system offers more variety. I suppose you could force yourself to take some kind of different route with the perks, but you tend to stick with what you know works for you. Supposedly for A18, this could change with more advanced perk trees and specializations... but I am worried about it. As a single player, in order to survive reasonably, you need to have a nice balance of everything. The new setup has the potential to force a SP to specialize when they really need to be a jack of all trades. I guess we'll see how it goes. Another possible outcome of what is to come is that a single player still ends up choosing the same perk path because again, we tend to go with what works for us. I think what we really need are circumstances that can happen in the world that affects our decisions more, and could force us into going a certain path we wouldn't normally go.

 

I think the higher difficulty of time management and tower defense part made SP have a lot less "wriggle room" pushing most players into selecting similar perks. My method of dealing with this was to prolong length of day from 60 to 90 minutes (I would have chosen 80 minutes if I had that choice in the menue) without changing difficulty. I don't think most players will change their play style greatly no matter how the game is done, we have our preferences.

 

For the first horde night taking over a brick building is IMHO the best option. I also had success with simply using and shaping a big stone and building a court yard with lots of spikes and only one entrance to it.

 

I find building the horde night base a lot more interesting than in previous alphas. If you are a purist who thinks even having a funnel/single entrance to lead the zombies is an exploit then yes, you won't have fun with A17. I never built those artifical looking single file labyrinths on stilts, something you see posted quite often as exploity bases. I use principles that builders of antique castles used in the middle ages and they do work.

[AtomicUs5000]

I think the higher difficulty of time management and tower defense part made SP have a lot less "wriggle room" pushing most players into selecting similar perks. My method of dealing with this was to prolong length of day from 60 to 90 minutes (I would have chosen 80 minutes if I had that choice in the menue) without changing difficulty. I don't think most players will change their play style greatly no matter how the game is done, we have our preferences.

 

For the first horde night taking over a brick building is IMHO the best option. I also had success with simply using and shaping a big stone and building a court yard with lots of spikes and only one entrance to it.

 

I find building the horde night base a lot more interesting than in previous alphas. If you are a purist who thinks even having a funnel/single entrance to lead the zombies is an exploit then yes, you won't have fun with A17. I never built those artifical looking single file labyrinths on stilts, something you see posted quite often as exploity bases. I use principles that builders of antique castles used in the middle ages and they do work.

 

Sure, the having to deal with base building yourself definitely contributes. Really, you could say the same about everything when playing single player. Gathering resources, looting, hydration, food, it all falls on you alone. While specializing in multiplayer can greatly benefit the team as a whole, doing so in single player could be very detrimental. You can focus a little, but you still have to maintain some kind of balance or suffer the consequences.

 

In the end, I guess what I am hoping for is a way to be forced out of my comfort zone, but while doing so, it is still possible to survive. This is thought behind a recent post of mine in Pimp Dreams: https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?114886-Scenarios-Expanding-7D2D-Easily

I want to have the challenge, but not because I made it that way just for the sake of doing it... but because I need to in order to achieve some ultimate goal.

[Crater Creator]

You can tell how old this game is... libraries and bookstores are almost extinct.

 

That doesn't really have to do with the age of the game, and I see it as an ongoing problem for level artists. You'll still see new games, set in the present day or near future, where the street corners are full of phone booths, news stands, and mail boxes; where desks are covered with papers, landline telephones, and computers that can only show you local files if anything. The thing is, even if most of that stuff is increasingly anachronistic, the game world has spaces that need to be filled with something. You don't want half the game to be played on your character's smart phone, at least in most cases. There are probably even more caveats taken in post-apocalyptic games like this one, what with the collapse of society turning the practical utility of things upside down (i.e., hunks of plastic and silicon are nearly worthless, while a short iron pipe could save your life).

[AtomicUs5000]

I wasn’t saying they should take them out. I just mean they are so abundant and if you were designing the game starting right now, you wouldn’t think to include that many.

[Crater Creator]

You might not think to for realism, but you might think to for balance, or for the sake of utilizing the assets you have. Though I do agree the distribution of buildings could be improved. For instance, I believe the overabundance of radio towers was listed as a known issue at one point.