Plot relevance in 7D2D

[Maguvas]

Hi guys,

While TFP is busy with both A17.x fixes and A18 coding the only thing I could do is posting a memo: please do not underestimate the importance of a plot.

 

I know I know many guys say: a real survival game doesn't need a plot. Ok it's an opinion I don't agree but I respect that and in the meantime I'll try to add some facts about my idea of why a plot is so important maybe a key factor.

 

The fourth place in my survival games personal ranking is occupied by 7D2D: nothing more to add here.

 

The third place is occupied by The Forest. It has no biomes and the crafting part is really poor if compared to 7D2D. The game is even unbalanced because you'll spend 30% of game time in caves and personally I didn't like that. But the game has an incredible atmosphere it has a plot it has less things to craft but seeing things at work is spectacular and even after some time spent in caves - which I hate - you are forced to continue because you'll want to discover what's happened. You may even spend your time for just crafting and seeing how your traps works but when you'll get bored with that you may invest some time in investigating. That's the first thing 7D2D is lacking: changing play policy by choice. In 7D2D you have nothing to really discover. When you'll get bored in scavenging buildings you can do only more of the same... in different building.

 

The 2nd place is occupied by Empyrion. I'm not saying so much about that because it is strictly personal: I like space and everything related to it so it was auto endorsed by my personal traits. Empyrion still is without plot it has just a well written intro history but that's it. Crafting in Empyrion is the more advanced, huge and varied I've ever seen and probably the first survival game where you enjoy crafting. What this can teach to 7D2D? To slightly move the crafting of the game from the concept: I'm crafting for survival to I'm crafting actually because I enjoy it. Then in Empyrion vehicles were added to the game as game changer and conquering them by crafting is totally rewarding. In 7D2D it seems to me vehicles are just some sort of fancy add up but nothing with real impact on the game: you want to explore by flying or by walking but it's fine anyway. Even more in 7D2D some components to build vehicles are randomly dropped thus making the whole vheicle experience not so much rewarding and sometimes even slightly frustrating.

 

Now the very first place, a game from which in my opinion, 7D2D has a lot of things to learn. I'm talking of a game so well balanced in everything that you explore just because you like to explore. A game where character progression is going on peacefully with an ever engaging bit of plot. A game where you do not obtain knowledge randomly but you conquering something because it is right that that something was placed there. A game where vehicle are not added up to the gane but they're game changer and 'evolver' and crafting them is so rewarding you would craft them for ever. The bases you build are not just buit because you want but because they really may help in expand the exploration otherwise you'll die for sure. A game where discovery is not just plot but also knowledge of the world you're visiting. This game is Subnautica winner of many prizes. Indeed I think that 7D2D may look at it to try to become a better game... enriched by a plot.

 

Sorry for this long message

[Damocles]

And I think, (regarding 7DtD and Empyrion), bot games would not get better by having a set plot.

 

People mix up story with mechanics. Of course having voiced and animated NPCs would be fancy and nice, but that does not necessitate a complex story of any kind.

Having factions as in Empyrion is fine, as they just give each group some reference and personality. But I would not care about the Zirax leaders son in the third age of the reign of the Empalion ... or however those stories go into unimportant detail.

 

 

On the other hand: when having a story, the game narrates what the world is about and what is happening.

Without it, its up to the players imagination. And I think thats the better setting for a sandbox game:

Dont overdefine the world. Dont add (potentially implausible) stories and lore, that most players would not really care about.

 

Leave story-worldbuiding to dedicated writers of books (Tolkien, R.R.Martin) and narrative games (as Bioware used to do)

[ricp]

Out of interest, am I the only person who hates the traders? Not their loot, nor their quests, but them themselves. I'm guessing that the dialogue and voice "acting" has been done by TFP staff or friends/relatives so I realise I'm putting myself out on a limb here, but if it was possible to kill the traders I would have do so long before A17 arrived.

[SylenThunder]

7 Days to Die has plans for a large storyline with branched quests. It just wasn't reasonable to work on until the core features of the game were more complete.

 

Empyrion is in a similar boat. It hasn't even had quests/scenarios until the last couple of Alpha builds. Just the same as 7 Days.

 

The Forest is like an open sandbox inside a story. There's a full quest chain to complete the game, full storyline and everything. Same for Subnautica. Neither of those games are in Alpha development either. The latter is even about to release a sequel.

 

 

So basically, your list is ordered in the order these games are in their development cycle, with the worst being the least currently developed title.

[Ianua]

I'd like some plot line, I don't want or need a closed story that I have to navigate. I'd like to discover what happened, maybe have other npc's to interact with and get to know. I wouldn't mind some way to start salvaging the towns by repairing and such. Or leave it as is hubby and I are pretty happy.

[AtomicUs5000]

Out of interest, am I the only person who hates the traders? Not their loot, nor their quests, but them themselves. I'm guessing that the dialogue and voice "acting" has been done by TFP staff or friends/relatives so I realise I'm putting myself out on a limb here, but if it was possible to kill the traders I would have do so long before A17 arrived.

 

No, you are not. I think they add too much relief to the dire situation.

[Rez090]

7 Days to Die has plans for a large storyline with branched quests. It just wasn't reasonable to work on until the core features of the game were more complete.

 

Empyrion is in a similar boat. It hasn't even had quests/scenarios until the last couple of Alpha builds. Just the same as 7 Days.

 

The Forest is like an open sandbox inside a story. There's a full quest chain to complete the game, full storyline and everything. Same for Subnautica. Neither of those games are in Alpha development either. The latter is even about to release a sequel.

 

 

So basically, your list is ordered in the order these games are in their development cycle, with the worst being the least currently developed title.

I thought Subnautica was getting a DLC, not a sequel.

[SylenThunder]

I thought Subnautica was getting a DLC, not a sequel.

It's in Early access following the same methodology as a new game, and not that of a DLC/expansion.

[Weazelsun]

I guess it depends on how a plot or story would be implemented. In my opnion we don't need a lots of NPC's with dialogue. Personally, I'd like to see if and when a story is implemented its done like Fallout 76, where we have a chance of finding notes or diaries, that tell part of the story. Not a whole lot, but at least some we could peace together. Or have it done via the environemnt such as a location in the server I play on, there is a POI that has a lab underneath. I wonder could that POI have been ground zero for the apocolypse or was simply a test site? Then there the the POI's that have a military tent erected under or even that one POI I went in that had some sort of altar in the attic.

[Maguvas]

Wow guys I think I must thank you for your posts: I like very much the discussion because each one is writing something very productive. I must thank you again for that.

 

Now I would like to answer to everyone... but I guess it would be too much so forgive me if I'll add a global answer without names: I'd prefer to be quick for the sake of us all

 

In time ascending order: maybe my term was strong and indeed that guy who is talking about Bioware is right. 7D2D doesn't need a plot who is controlling the game - which basically happens with Bioware's titles - but a game which controls the plot. With plot I'm meaning that: sorry if I haven't explained it better. That very same concept was proposed by another guy and I totally agree with him: 7D2D may be enriched by an underlying story and you may discover it one piece after another even in POI history and role. Of course it's not mandatory to follow the story in a survival game.

 

About trader I agree again with ya: it's very unbelievable that in a world just decimated by some nuclear explosion - so says newspapers - all the things a trader will say to you - the only human being in miles - are hello, bye and some offences if you haven't bought something And apart from that: who is getting merchandise to traders? How they restock? Ok let me explain: in Morrowind and Skyrim even you don't know how they're doing that but in a civilized city you may imagine. In 7D2D there is no room for imagining that: zombies everywhere and the traders has things? That would justify - to add depth to the game - the factions introduction. It's plausible I imagine that in a situation like 7D2D some faction will take charge of that.

 

Thanks to the guy who analyzed my list: I wrote it genuinely but now that he made me look at it I must admit he is right. It would have been not fair to compare WIP games with finished games but anyway my intention was for sure to highlight some interesting feature of finished games to be imported into 7D2D

 

If I'm not remembering wrong after A18 TFP would like to go stable so maybe as someone said here the story will be implemented... and if it was like that I fear for it: adding a good story to a game is not like 'adding' something and that's it. To elevate the game it mus be interconnected with game features and elements and in my opinion it'll take time.

 

Anyway in life it's wise to ever think positive

[AtomicUs5000]

About trader I agree again with ya: it's very unbelievable that in a world just decimated by some nuclear explosion - so says newspapers - all the things a trader will say to you - the only human being in miles - are hello, bye and some offences if you haven't bought something And apart from that: who is getting merchandise to traders? How they restock? Ok let me explain: in Morrowind and Skyrim even you don't know how they're doing that but in a civilized city you may imagine. In 7D2D there is no room for imagining that: zombies everywhere and the traders has things? That would justify - to add depth to the game - the factions introduction. It's plausible I imagine that in a situation like 7D2D some faction will take charge of that.

 

I don't know if there will be some kind of story behind the traders when bandits are introduced, but for the way the game is right now, I would much prefer if traders were nomads that randomly roamed the landscape and were susceptible to death from zombies (but could also defend if needed). For me, this would be more believable. However, the problem I can see with that is what would stop you from killing a trader and taking all of his/her goods? Maybe something like if you kill the traders, less traders will come by your area. If you keep doing it, eventually no more would come at all, which would be very detrimental for you in the long run.

Additionally, there would have to be some mechanic where if the trader was killed by a zombie their loot gets destroyed... and I guess if killed by bandits, then the bandits steal the loot. This would be just to prevent cheesing the system where you try to force the trader to be killed by something else.

[Maguvas]

I think that the atomicus5000 idea is... GREAT. In fallout3 and more in the 4th you may already see nomadic traders: that would add up incredibly to the realism and world depth.

 

About the counter methods to prevent the player ambushes to the nomadic traders it is possible to add a reputation system: if you kill traders you'll have malus applied to reputation and other traders will know that and they'll refuse to sell you. Instead when zombies will attack traders then you may defend them and gain positive reputation points and obtain better items and discounts.

 

Wow that would be wonderful a definitive real upgrade in the game world of 7d2d.

[Damocles]

The easiest way to make trader believable is to introduce other settlements at the edge of the map.

Those could be just closed of POIs, that cannot be entered, with guards watching the player.

 

They could also offer the type of quests, the trader does currently (talking to them over the front gates intercom).

 

Cheap to implement, and makes the world way more plausible.

[Khulkhuum]

You can add custom variables in the game and work with them in various ways. I'm sure you could implement fairly easy a reputation system, though i don't know about using it somehow.