Toppling the Nerd Pole

[Roland]

Two ways that I can see as a solution to removing/neutralizing the nerd pole advantage from the game.

 

#1 Make it impossible to place a block while in mid-jump or falling.

 

#2 Add the ladder attribute to all frame blocks so that they can be climbed by players and zombies alike.

 

Are either of these solutions possible and if so which would be easiest to accomplish? Would they be able to be accomplished through xml editing or is this firmly in the realm of SDX?

[Guppycur]

Require nails for frames. Helps WAY more than you'd think. GitHub.com/khelldon and try his get nailed modlet.

 

Via XML, make it so that nothing can be placed on a frame. Hint, campfires have the property you are looking for.

[Roland]

When you say requires nails for frames do you mean nails are in the recipe to craft them or nails are used up from your inventory to place them?

 

I still want to be able to stack frames. I’m not crazy...

[Guppycur]

Nails required for crafting. Changes everything.

[xyth]

Nails required for crafting. Changes everything.

 

Except maybe..nerd-poling?

[Umbrella]

Could we add a timer when putting a frame (timer similar to the loot action, maybe longer) ?

If nerd polling takes too long, I would end up building a ladder (provided the ladder has lower timing ofc)

Moreover, the timer may prevent me from putting it while in the air.

[Guppycur]

Except maybe..nerd-poling?

 

Naw, still can't. You have to build the frame (requires nails), and then use a hammer (and more nails) to "solidify it" in place. No nerd poling. =)

[Roland]

Naw, still can't. You have to build the frame (requires nails), and then use a hammer (and more nails) to "solidify it" in place. No nerd poling. =)

 

I'll try it out. I can't imagine what "solidifying it" means in terms of placing a frame block but if it really does work then I'll go with that solution. Thanks.

[Roland]

Could we add a timer when putting a frame (timer similar to the loot action, maybe longer) ?

If nerd polling takes too long, I would end up building a ladder (provided the ladder has lower timing ofc)

Moreover, the timer may prevent me from putting it while in the air.

 

Perhaps....but that might make using them for building unbearable.

[Spider]

In TS 16.2 we had an edited .dll that did a check to see if you were on the ground before letting you place a block. There was also a check to cancel this if you were in the water or on a ladder.

 

Also if we could have some xml function to not allow the player to place a block then you could use a check on if fall speed was >0 and that could be done as a buff.

[Roland]

In TS 16.2 we had an edited .dll that did a check to see if you were on the ground before letting you place a block. There was also a check to cancel this if you were in the water or on a ladder.

 

Also if we could have some xml function to not allow the player to place a block then you could use a check on if fall speed was >0 and that could be done as a buff.

 

So out of curiosity how did that play out in actual? I strive to avoid nerd poling and mostly succeed but I have often wondered how fun it would be if nerd poling was prevented by the game. Did you ultimately scrap the feature or do you plan to bring it back for future versions of True Survival?

[stasis78]

Two ways that I can see as a solution to removing/neutralizing the nerd pole advantage from the game.

 

#1 Make it impossible to place a block while in mid-jump or falling.

 

#2 Add the ladder attribute to all frame blocks so that they can be climbed by players and zombies alike.

 

Are either of these solutions possible and if so which would be easiest to accomplish? Would they be able to be accomplished through xml editing or is this firmly in the realm of SDX?

 

#3 make it so you can't pick up frames.

 

<configs>
   <remove xpath="/blocks/block[contains(@name,'Frame')]/property[@name='CanPickup']" />
   <append xpath="/blocks/block[contains(@name,'Frame')]" name="value">
     <property name="CanPickup" value="false"/>
   </append>
<configs>

[Spider]

@Roland-

O it worked beautifully and it made a huge difference in playing. I don't nerd poll myself but a lot of my mod was just stopping players from using cheesy exploits and nerd polling is one of them. Most people don't even relies how much they use nerd polling until you take it away. It was just one piece of many that combined to make the mod feel more like an apocalyptic simulator than a RPG Shooter game (more my flavor than whats being worked toward now). Its more realistic when you cant build under your falling body. And yes when 7D2D is in a moddable condition it is on the list of things I want to include in my mod.

 

You know come to think of it, I'm sure Spherrii could get it working as a SDX modlet. He got most of the other SDX features I had working as modlets.

 

@stasis78-

Yes that's easy but you need to be able to toggle that on and off based on if the player is in the air or not.

[stasis78]

Totally defeating nerd piling is impossible. You can simply build 2 columns and leap frog.

[Roland]

Totally defeating nerd piling is impossible. You can simply build 2 columns and leap frog.

 

Building two columns isn't nerd poling and is slow enough as to not be exploitive. I'm not against getting to higher ground but doing it by building an actual scaffolding structure or using ladders is what I'm after. Jumping and placing a block beneath yourself in a single column is an unrealistic physical feat and the speed at which you can do it is an exploit in my opinion. I don't mind two column stacking because it is slower and physically possible to do.

[Roland]

@Roland-

O it worked beautifully and it made a huge difference in playing.

 

That is the answer I was hoping for.

[Spider]

Building two columns isn't nerd poling and is slow enough as to not be exploitive. I'm not against getting to higher ground but doing it by building an actual scaffolding structure or using ladders is what I'm after. Jumping and placing a block beneath yourself in a single column is an unrealistic physical feat and the speed at which you can do it is an exploit in my opinion. I don't mind two column stacking because it is slower and physically possible to do.

 

My feelings exactly

[Guppycur]

Yeh I never realized I ever even did it until I was being chased by 50 Zed's after initially spawned (another mod) and couldn't frame up to a roof...

 

Twas a glorious start.

[stasis78]

Building two columns isn't nerd poling and is slow enough as to not be exploitive. I'm not against getting to higher ground but doing it by building an actual scaffolding structure or using ladders is what I'm after. Jumping and placing a block beneath yourself in a single column is an unrealistic physical feat and the speed at which you can do it is an exploit in my opinion. I don't mind two column stacking because it is slower and physically possible to do.

 

I’ve seen some pretty impressive feats from acrobats in real life

[Roland]

I’ve seen some pretty impressive feats from acrobats in real life

 

Me too but even Cirque du Soleil would be hard pressed to accomplish nerdpoling as it exists in the game. At the very least it would require a partner tossing blocks up to the guy nerdpoling.

 

It's cool, though. Not like we are arguing for vanilla game changes here.

 

I think for a game like Minecraft in which gravity is extremely lax, nerdpoling is appropriate. In this game where gravity is touted as a feature, nerdpoling is jarring to me and I hope to find a good way to remove it. I'm going to try the nails modlet to see how I like it and also try sticking the fireplace attribute onto frameblocks to see how that affects things. THAT would foil the two column approach as well... Might be too much but worth a try at least.

 

BTW, I would like to see nerdpoling removed from the vanilla game BUT able to be perked into through agility which jives with your acrobat comment. But that is not a decision I get to make.

 

Spider's endorsement of having actually implemented and played with it as well as the overall popularity of True Survival with his fix of nerdpoling in place gives me renewed desire to remove it in some fashion from my own gameplay.

[stasis78]

Me too but even Cirque du Soleil would be hard pressed to accomplish nerdpoling as it exists in the game. At the very least it would require a partner tossing blocks up to the guy nerdpoling.

 

It's cool, though. Not like we are arguing for vanilla game changes here.

 

I think for a game like Minecraft in which gravity is extremely lax, nerdpoling is appropriate. In this game where gravity is touted as a feature, nerdpoling is jarring to me and I hope to find a good way to remove it. I'm going to try the nails modlet to see how I like it and also try sticking the fireplace attribute onto frameblocks to see how that affects things. THAT would foil the two column approach as well... Might be too much but worth a try at least.

 

BTW, I would like to see nerdpoling removed from the vanilla game BUT able to be perked into through agility which jives with your acrobat comment. But that is not a decision I get to make.

 

Spider's endorsement of having actually implemented and played with it as well as the overall popularity of True Survival with his fix of nerdpoling in place gives me renewed desire to remove it in some fashion from my own gameplay.

 

I can go either way. I end up in creative most of the time so wouldn’t break my heart. It does make building and digging down shafts much easier though.

 

I think a lot of it comes back to, you have a 4x4 in your pocket. You can probably nerd pole

[Guppycur]

I had to build an attached garage with the getnailed mod and it took me over an entire game day. It was a blast. Had to make scaffolding, take it down to move it, etc.

[Roland]

Well, I applied the campfire property to frameblocks and...woah. It definitely makes nerdpoling impossible but it is very restrictive and unintuitive. It creates a very unnatural bizarre law of physics that is too jarring.

 

Cool though that such an easy edit creates such a weird but dramatically game changing result.

[Roland]

Question: how do you turn off collide vs players. I saw the collide property with types such as movement, melee, rockets, bullets. But no matter what words I include or exclude I still bump into the frame block when what Id like is to pass right through it like we do air blocks, water blocks and plant blocks. But in comparing the properties of those blocks and the master blocks from which they extend I couldn’t figure out how to do it.

 

Any help? Is it possible through xml edits to turn off colliders for frame Blocks so the player just walks through them?

 

I have a plan...but this is key to it.

[bdubyah]

That's probably only able to be done in Unity. Or, at least not through simple xml.