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madmole

Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!  

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  1. 1. Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

    • A18 Stable is Out!
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In a18 you can be lvl 5 or 6 forever. Several times I have asked for a way to cut down XP gain for myself (the opposite of nerd goggles) and now I got one without even trying.

I don't always like to play the rat race. I'm fine with not having many perks and going looting/exploring instead.

 

I see almost everyone chase after XP and I cannot understand why. They are shooting themselves in the foot trying to "win" the game.

 

There is the xp modifier too, that can go below 1x. Yes the game is amazing now that its geared to level slower. The fact is once you get 60 perks you will be pretty damn OP, so guys wanting 300 are just nuts, its way more fun to start over than to keep going. IMO level 100 will be a good end game point, which could be 150 hours, then roll a new character for a new experience and specialization.

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Not sure. I do want to make some of the more advanced dishes provide some kind of buff or preventative medicine property.

 

I really miss the wellness system and how eating good homecooked food was rewarded by directly making you healthier. Honestly that's probably the reason why farming became fruitless in the first place, many of the dishes that awarded wellness also needed fresh crops. When wellness was removed, so did the incentive to grow your own food. There absolutely needs to be a benefit to eating prepared dishes, maybe chili dogs up your fortitude for 10 minutes or something like that. Or just bring back the wellness system in some format, it was pretty good.

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You're trying to swim against decades of gaming tropes, wherein a "level 5" character was always stronger, better, faster than a "level 4" character, and a "level 10" character could one-shot both of 'em dead.

 

In some respects perhaps, the XP in 7Days is almost even a little mis-named, if it's not something that is totally beneficial to the player, as it is in just about every other game ever made. In 7Days, it's a more nuanced , double-edged sword, but new players especially aren't going to have even the slightest idea of that.

 

That is why I keep warning players, DO NOT KNEE JERK AND TURN UP THE XP RATE. You miss out on 100 upgrades you could have had or might get GS too nasty and you still have brown/orange crap and not many mods and will make it too hard for yourself. Leveling is part of the success, but the bigger part is loot and gear now.

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Most AAA studios are horrible and don't even have designers. The top designer is the guy with the most charisma and debate skills who might even just be a guy from QA. Teams work against each other and lobby for ideas to get in and usually have to work nights and weekends to prototype an idea to show it to try and get something in the game. It takes years of meetings just to decide on anything. Like one game had a film editing guy as lead designer. He was pushing for a bunch of cut scenes that interrupted game play constantly that none of the previous versions had. It's basically a ♥♥♥♥ show at a lot of places, but people think oh they made this big named game it would be amazing to work there, then find out all the BS.

 

Exactly. A lot of people envision working as a "designer" in the AAA business as an amazing opportunity. No it usually isn't. You're their little servant, their little errand monkey whom they see as just a number that helps generates numbers, and that [you are] completely expendable. Too many stories are rising these days of journalists and/or representatives of companies commenting that they have current financial issues (while also stating that they've reached their greatest financial success ever during the course of that very year) and that they must reduce the salaries of all their employees. What they tend to not talk about is the 60% raise and the 50 million dollar check they recently gave their CEO. Smh.

 

This, among several others reasons, is why I almost exclusively trust and dedicate my time to (honest) indie developers, TFP being one such company.

Edited by MechanicalLens (see edit history)

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I do get amazed people say "It's taking you 5 years and it only took 1 for <insert AAA game here> to come out!" when that's only because they don't see the 10 years prior to any kind of announcement...

 

That's so true, what a lot of new players also don't know & some Fan Boy's forgot that we put this all 2 a Vote in the Forum a while back...

 

We chose 2 have fewer updates like we used to get in favor of larger 1's with more features or content...

If you look at all my accurate predictions for Releases the time line for a Release has pretty much flat lined at around a year for an XP Release...

That's why I pretty much didn't make 1 on this Release because if you look at it is close to A17 Release Time Line..

I also think there might be 1 more Update before they start coming quicker again once Content & the memory leak is addressed...

Pretty much all downhill from here & if they have not started all ready some of the Staff should be able to work on the next Project...

Pretty much Modding the thing to Death after that...

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I do get amazed people say "It's taking you 5 years and it only took 1 for <insert AAA game here> to come out!" when that's only because they don't see the 10 years prior to any kind of announcement...

 

Plus, they release a new game every year, they want to sell, not to see the game triumph in the course of time.

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Plus, they release a new game every year, they want to sell, not to see the game triumph in the course of time.

 

All in the almighty dollar. I try not to invest in game franchises that have FAR too many reiterations, sequels, prequels, etc.

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Madmole,

 

Thank you for the video! Nice to see it is coming along and we are getting closer everyday. I do have a question/ concern that has been mentioned and talked about a bit, but I am hoping for a bit more definitive answer.

 

You are on day 9 and I am concerned with the amount and quality of the loot you have found already:

The lvl 6 AK is the easy one, but there are many more

Lvl 4: Arm Armor, Blunderbuss?

Lvl 3: Leg armor, chest armor, mining helmet, iron pick axe, 2 javelins?

Other: BDU tops and bottoms, quite a few bullets/ shells, a grenade, hunting knife, 300 pills, lvl 2 wrench

 

It seems like that is a lot of powerful stuff for day 9. I am in the camp that loot found is WAY overpowered. It is not that it has to be all crap, but you have found a lvl 6 gun, the most efficient clothing in the game and all that other stuff by day 9.

 

Thank you again for the video and if this is the intent, then that is cool, I just wanted to flesh it out a bit.

Caz

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There is the xp modifier too, that can go below 1x. Yes the game is amazing now that its geared to level slower. The fact is once you get 60 perks you will be pretty damn OP, so guys wanting 300 are just nuts, its way more fun to start over than to keep going. IMO level 100 will be a good end game point, which could be 150 hours, then roll a new character for a new experience and specialization.

 

I like all these A18 concepts as they are described, but will no doubt take getting used to, because so much of basic play in A17 required getting points into INT fast to do basic stuff (efficient resource mining, building horde-ready structures, tool making, exploring/vehicles, big POI clearing with weapons/ammo.)

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Well, you didn't remove gravel from underground mining.. that is one less thing to rant about.

 

But why are the frames in your video different from the Unholyjoe's video? Not sure how I can rant about it, but I'll try.

 

And release the A18 already, can't wait to rant about all those bugs!

01.jpg.57825b4e57f0d66a9b2795ffb95641ff.jpg

02.jpg.18dd2c3410aac04b1dab2b88c2f9ae3f.jpg

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Because it's the same game throughout but with different weapons.

 

Level 1, kill easy zombies with a bow. Takes 5 shots. Loot is crap.

 

Level 50, kill medium zombies with a modded crossbow. Takes 5 shots. Loot is medium.

 

Level 100, kill harder zombies with a rifle. Takes 5 shots. Loot is better.

 

...there is no valid *reason* to "succeed" in this game.

 

Yes and no. You can still see your progress because normal zombies still spawn in higher game stages. Hopefully TFP knows this and doesn't forget it when they replace world spawns with random encounters.

 

... especially now that there are no death penalties other than it takes longer to level up, which is the goal anyway, so yes? :)

 

We are not far off from strategy guides on the internet telling people to die every morning to get rid of the XP. "Strategy approved by Gazz" :cocksure:

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Well, you didn't remove gravel from underground mining.. that is one less thing to rant about.

 

But why are the frames in your video different from the Unholyjoe's video? Not sure how I can rant about it, but I'll try.

 

And release the A18 already, can't wait to rant about all those bugs!

 

Unholy Joe played on build 105 and Joel played on build 108. (maybe that's why)

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That is why I keep warning players, DO NOT KNEE JERK AND TURN UP THE XP RATE. You miss out on 100 upgrades you could have had or might get GS too nasty and you still have brown/orange crap and not many mods and will make it too hard for yourself. Leveling is part of the success, but the bigger part is loot and gear now.

 

No arguments here, Joel, indeed I'm really looking forward to A18's newer systems, and to taking it nice and slow (though probably not till .2 or so will I commit to a longer term game).

 

I'm just pointing out that many players new to 7Days are likely to automatically see "faster XP" as an untarnished positive, not realising that leveling quickly might actually make things very much harder for them.

 

The usual game trope is either, harder areas, with higher mobs and better loot, or restarts on higher difficulty levels with harder mobs and better loot. 7Days goes against that grain by "leveling up" (for lack of a better term) the mobs to match, more or less, the players level through the gamestage mechanic, meaning that those that have done so arbitrarily fast, through either rigid focus on high XP activities, or simple XML edits, will actually find themselves under-equipped and unprepared for what they'll face.

 

Really the only issue I see with that, is that a newbie isn't going to understand that the game will do that, and will, more than likely, try to level up faster than not, not realising the effect it'll have.

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Yes and no. You can still see your progress because normal zombies still spawn in higher game stages. Hopefully TFP knows this and doesn't forget it when they replace world spawns with random encounters.

 

 

 

We are not far off from strategy guides on the internet telling people to die every morning to get rid of the XP. "Strategy approved by Gazz" :cocksure:

 

Or you could try the Pacifist Challenge. :p (No killing of hostile entities, etc.)

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I've walked a hunk of granite before. It's a real drag....

 

I used to be a trampoline salesman. It had its ups and downs.

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No arguments here, Joel, indeed I'm really looking forward to A18's newer systems, and to taking it nice and slow (though probably not till .2 or so will I commit to a longer term game).

 

I'm just pointing out that many players new to 7Days are likely to automatically see "faster XP" as an untarnished positive, not realising that leveling quickly might actually make things very much harder for them.

 

The usual game trope is either, harder areas, with higher mobs and better loot, or restarts on higher difficulty levels with harder mobs and better loot. 7Days goes against that grain by "leveling up" (for lack of a better term) the mobs to match, more or less, the players level through the gamestage mechanic, meaning that those that have done so arbitrarily fast, through either rigid focus on high XP activities, or simple XML edits, will actually find themselves under-equipped and unprepared for what they'll face.

 

Really the only issue I see with that, is that a newbie isn't going to understand that the game will do that, and will, more than likely, try to level up faster than not, not realising the effect it'll have.

 

While giving the noobie a helping hand every once in a while is necessary imo (journal entries, etc.), allowing the process of self-discovery is, imo, a valuable "feature" to have. If a new player is in a situation where they are outgunned by tougher zombies because they leveled too quickly, they could then deduce that maybe they should leave those settings on default.

 

Another example is the wasteland; even now, experienced [enough] players know to avoid that biome so long as they are lacking the weapons, armor, etc. to fend off the threats it presents. Oh, and at some point, they would have discovered that naturally spawning landmines in the wasteland are a thing. While having any newbie player get their head chewed off five seconds after entering the wasteland biome would be poor game design imo, letting them discover this for themselves (that maybe they should gear up for the wasteland before daring to venture into it) through personal experience is a whole part of the natural learning process that must take place in some way, shape, or form. Again, imo.

 

Or maybe additional "tooltips" are needed, idk. *Shrugs*

Edited by MechanicalLens (see edit history)

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Madmole,

 

Thank you for the video! Nice to see it is coming along and we are getting closer everyday. I do have a question/ concern that has been mentioned and talked about a bit, but I am hoping for a bit more definitive answer.

 

You are on day 9 and I am concerned with the amount and quality of the loot you have found already:

The lvl 6 AK is the easy one, but there are many more

Lvl 4: Arm Armor, Blunderbuss?

Lvl 3: Leg armor, chest armor, mining helmet, iron pick axe, 2 javelins?

Other: BDU tops and bottoms, quite a few bullets/ shells, a grenade, hunting knife, 300 pills, lvl 2 wrench

 

It seems like that is a lot of powerful stuff for day 9. I am in the camp that loot found is WAY overpowered. It is not that it has to be all crap, but you have found a lvl 6 gun, the most efficient clothing in the game and all that other stuff by day 9.

 

Thank you again for the video and if this is the intent, then that is cool, I just wanted to flesh it out a bit.

Caz

 

yep it does seem like a lot... the good thing about it is... you will use it up or sell it.. it makes it worth going out to loot everything you can.... and... you may/will get to a point where you wished you found more... Mr. RNG is still present in game and he is not giving up his position. :)

 

it makes going out of the safety of the base fun again. :) IMO

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Well, you didn't remove gravel from underground mining.. that is one less thing to rant about.

 

But why are the frames in your video different from the Unholyjoe's video? Not sure how I can rant about it, but I'll try.

 

And release the A18 already, can't wait to rant about all those bugs!

 

may have the testers testing a slightly older build?

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While giving the noobie a helping hand every once in a while is necessary imo (journal entries, etc.), allowing the process of self-discovery is, imo, a valuable "feature" to have. If a new player is in a situation where they are outgunned by tougher zombies because they leveled too quickly, they could then deduce that maybe they should leave those settings on default.

 

Or maybe additional "tooltips" are needed, idk. *Shrugs*

 

Under the game design principle of affordance, if I were to make any suggestion to the Pimps, it would be some sort of notice to new players that rapidly getting XP without getting loot/gear etc along the way, isn't such a good idea, in this game.

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Clearing gravel with a pickaxe? This makes a geologist sad..

 

Its still not as efficient as a shovel, but doable. Imagine turning the pick sideways and raking out of the way.

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Under the game design principle of affordance, if I were to make any suggestion to the Pimps, it would be some sort of notice to new players that rapidly getting XP without getting loot/gear etc along the way, isn't such a good idea, in this game.

 

I will agree. When i first started no where was it stated my GS was going to determine anything for me. maybe have the tutorial in the beginning say something about what we are all on topic for?

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Because character development aka investing skill points gives direction. It's the very foundation of any RPG, plus: Any skill point based system is basically a level-gate that locks away features from the player.

I cannot understand why not to chase XP. Playing for x hours on a low game stage isn't fun as it isn't to kill zombie no. 1595 with wooden arrows or a wooden club.

So you consider intentional dying as a valid strategy?

Gamestage may be a nice trick for you as developer to adapt the difficulty to the abilities of the PC, but it breaks down because half of the progress in this game is through items and building and gamestage doesn't measure this. Using this knowledge is as exploity as fighting the endboss in obvlivion as a lvl 1 character.

Let's not forget that it is also an open world game and levels are not the only progression in the game.

By keeping your level low you ARE missing out on some higher tier items/mods/books or vehicles.

Your call.

 

Any comparison to an end boss falls flat in a game that has no end or goal.

 

 

We are not far off from strategy guides on the internet telling people to die every morning to get rid of the XP. "Strategy approved by Gazz" :cocksure:

I'm a minmaxer. That is not everyone's idea to have fun. And I also like slower games. Much slower than the progression was slowed down to.

I don't think this is a "right or wrong" issue.

Edited by Gazz (see edit history)

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Under the game design principle of affordance, if I were to make any suggestion to the Pimps, it would be some sort of notice to new players that rapidly getting XP without getting loot/gear etc along the way, isn't such a good idea, in this game.

 

Under this point of view, then giving players a notice that maybe entering a T5 building or a Bear Den POI on day 1 isn't the wisest move would also be necessary. Again, some things must be discovered for yourself, imo.

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may have the testers testing a slightly older build?

 

thanks major and trank for pointing that out :)

 

what can i say.... things change on daily basis and our video settings can be different, not to mention the video cards... so not everyone will see the exact same thing... IMO its not worth ranting about... :)

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Frankly If A18 release in next 2 weeks, I don't want A19 by christmas, for me it is too early. .

 

Regarding A19 , he didn't say which year.

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