Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
madmole

Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!  

1 member has voted

  1. 1. Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

    • A18 Stable is Out!
      0
    • :)
      1


Recommended Posts

We're going to smelt dukes.

 

Now, I plan using the trader like a broken soap dispenser: hitting them a lot! :)

 

Gimme Gimme Gimme!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Uhhhh.... wow. Just... wow.

 

I can't count the number of games where the (early game) survival challenge was getting enough water to drink. Not being able to find a cooking pot, building after building, and being forced to rely on cans of boiled water. Sometimes there was only one can available, which came from my starter can of chili.

 

The challenge was REAL, and when I finally found the pot and a couple of jars, the feeling of accomplishment and relief was REAL. Just as real as surviving a horde of zombies with a bow and a club for the first time.

 

-A

 

Couldn't have said it better.

 

I know I could be jumping the gun, but from the explanations from MM, it appears that the game is only going to concentrate on 4 survival aspects. Killing zombies, building your fort, looting and a small amount of crafting. You could say trader, food, gardening, perks, electricity, health, clothes and mining are becoming dumbed down systems that support the other 4, but are only less than 5% of the game now. Definitely don't seem to be the rich and rewarding systems they once were.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I must protest...

 

ok peeps.. i decided to go ahead and jump back a build or so and show you a tad bit about the farm plot..

 

i hope it shows you what you are asking about, i thought i covered what was needed... one thing i forgot to show you was.. you can paint the plots too.. i did do a screen shot. enjoy :)

 

the plot is a 1 m block.

 

 

 

video:

 

 

painting:

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]29094[/ATTACH]

 

 

 

video is public now!

 

 

This is my first post here, so forgive me. I've been a long time lurker here and just used the forums to get updates on the progress of the game. My issue is with the new farming changes. I never really thought it was tedious, and I quite liked tilling the land. I also liked that the dirt could look more organic and natural when tilled next to normal dirt. I definitely hated that we had to punch to harvest, instead of hitting E, but I could live with that. With that said, I do not like this new planer box system. It looks insanely more tedious and extremely expensive. The nitrate and rotten meat is what completely ruins this for me, as the rotten meat will be very difficult to get in the quantity I will need for the gardens I use to make. The nitrate is a critical resource for bullets which are very important as the game stage progresses. If the hoe is now useless and the only way to garden is via planter box, then it will be a major turnoff to garden.

 

Gardening was a big enjoyment for me, and it was very doable. I played pure vanilla, zero mods, and max difficulty with 64 max zombies, and I played solo. My gardens were always 10 by 10 so I would have an even 100 plants, and with living off the land maxed, I would always harvest a full stack of whatever each time, which was great. I had a few boxes full of plants, and I got great joy every time I opened it and saw all the food. I liked making veggie stew, it was my go-to meal when I didn't have the rotten meat for hobo stew. I feel like now though with the new system, it will be too costly to justify making the boxes, and I would rather not have to tone down my garden sizes. It's really the expensive cost of the boxes that bother me. I'm sure I'll be added to the group of "haters", but this is my legit gripe and I am actually very confused at the people who are okay with new change and saying this simplifies things. Does it really, though? Can we have other options? I would take a much more time consuming option if it meant I can save on nitrate and rotten flesh. I would spend an entire in-game day tilling if I have to, since time is free, but nitrate and meat has to be looted, which I feel like would take infinitely more time to do, which would cut into my every day looting and mining time.

 

Anyways, I know this was a ramble, but this is a legitimate opinion from someone who has had this game for many alphas, so I think my opinion should be taken into consideration along with everyone who feels the new system is great.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What is it to me? It's more removal of complexity for the sake of... I dunno, based on your post I'd guess someone's OCD.

 

I don't get why you don't enjoy the complexity. This game's entire fanbase was built on it.

 

Will you get a larger fan base from the casuals? Probably. So it's a viable business decision to dumb down the game. But to me, since you asked, it's missing out on the fun.

 

Yeah, again I'm one that likes the complexity. To get to Z have to go from A first. And would it be a grind? Well, no more than looting can be a grind. Or mining. The point is that it's a survival game and we have to grind some to survive.

 

And will they get more sales? I'm starting to think not, because it is starting to dumb down to becoming just another ordinary game. Not the advanced systems that 7 days had prior.

 

I can hear MM asking "what advanced things?" We've only made a small change. But even that small change of simplifying the game can alter the feel a lot to us older players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This is my first post here, so forgive me. I've been a long time lurker here and just used the forums to get updates on the progress of the game. My issue is with the new farming changes. I never really thought it was tedious, and I quite liked tilling the land. I also liked that the dirt could look more organic and natural when tilled next to normal dirt. I definitely hated that we had to punch to harvest, instead of hitting E, but I could live with that. With that said, I do not like this new planer box system. It looks insanely more tedious and extremely expensive. The nitrate and rotten meat is what completely ruins this for me, as the rotten meat will be very difficult to get in the quantity I will need for the gardens I use to make. The nitrate is a critical resource for bullets which are very important as the game stage progresses. If the hoe is now useless and the only way to garden is via planter box, then it will be a major turnoff to garden.

 

Gardening was a big enjoyment for me, and it was very doable. I played pure vanilla, zero mods, and max difficulty with 64 max zombies, and I played solo. My gardens were always 10 by 10 so I would have an even 100 plants, and with living off the land maxed, I would always harvest a full stack of whatever each time, which was great. I had a few boxes full of plants, and I got great joy every time I opened it and saw all the food. I liked making veggie stew, it was my go-to meal when I didn't have the rotten meat for hobo stew. I feel like now though with the new system, it will be too costly to justify making the boxes, and I would rather not have to tone down my garden sizes. It's really the expensive cost of the boxes that bother me. I'm sure I'll be added to the group of "haters", but this is my legit gripe and I am actually very confused at the people who are okay with new change and saying this simplifies things. Does it really, though? Can we have other options? I would take a much more time consuming option if it meant I can save on nitrate and rotten flesh. I would spend an entire in-game day tilling if I have to, since time is free, but nitrate and meat has to be looted, which I feel like would take infinitely more time to do, which would cut into my every day looting and mining time.

 

Anyways, I know this was a ramble, but this is a legitimate opinion from someone who has had this game for many alphas, so I think my opinion should be taken into consideration along with everyone who feels the new system is great.

 

Welcome to non-lurking status :)

 

I think you have legitimate concerns and are correct that the new system is definitely not a dumbing down of farming. It is a change towards crafting as the means instead of using a tool on the terrain of the world. The cost may be too much but we will have to see through playing and maybe the recipe will be adjusted. Changing quantities of recipes is the easiest change in the world so something that could be done even during experimental depending on the feedback.

 

I do think that being able to easily create a 10x10 garden plot for stacks of 100 crops each harvest probably contributes to the feeling of too much food. Some solutions that were talked about were animals destroying crops, adding a dead phase to the growth cycle, and food spoilage. Madmole mentioned that they were going to look at balancing first and for sure the cost and effort of creating a garden that will perpetually furnish food forever is something that can be adjusted for that balance. This might be why the cost is so high initially but maybe that will change.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Its not a day 1 thing. Its just not clunky to get started now. Seeds are not easy to find.

 

What you've done to the farming is unforgiveable.

 

I'm all for streamlining and like you, I dislike raking through pages of posts - but I had to for this rather disappointing news.

 

You have farming in the game, which is by far one of the best additions. People on here are narrowminded and I think to some degree, you too. I used to play with a friend of mine and she would much prefer base tending, clothing crafting, farming, and some mining with a little zombie hunting while I went about my business.

 

Having farming as something something of a task was grest. Tilling the land, crafting fertiliser and scattering it, the manual labour really made things worthwhile. But now, craft a box and pseudo-gate the seeds by having them in loot? You are forcing a play style yet again.

 

It's subtle, but it's there. Pushing those out to loot who may not want to. I think it would be wise of you to remember that one of your biggest selling points thusfar is choice of playstyle. That flexibility really did allow each to their own. Having friends with different roles, it really built co-dependency which was amazing, and something now even more important since your focus (without modding exp) is that a player cannot just spec into everything without a gargantuan grind.

 

Now with a simple craft the box and search for seeds, it seems it comes with awful tedium and removes the whole physical interaction with the land for those who wanted to feel like they had achieved something.

 

I'd like to respond to another user here too that said this game isn't a 'farming simulator.'

 

Yeah, and? It has farming, and that is a fantastic addition and something me (and my friend way moreso) wish received some love and development for the sake of self sufficiency, much like the builing of your own 'home' instead of squatting, contributing towards that feeling of achievement and survivability.

 

If the farming aspect is going to be cheapened like this - removing fertiliser, removing the hoe, and the tilling, the ability to turn the wild lands into sprawling farms, and giving us boxes instead, I would say that is farming might as well be removed. This makes it less and less relevant, which is tragic.

 

I'd like to finish this by saying the farming boxes are beautiful, and I adore the design, how they flushly sit with other blocks and will make an incredible addition. I just believe both systems should be left as they are - nothing like having the option.

 

Long post but yeah, now bring on the:

 

#WallOfText

#YouHaven'tPlayedA18

#A17Retrovision 😏

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What is it to me? It's more removal of complexity for the sake of... I dunno, based on your post I'd guess someone's OCD.

 

I don't get why you don't enjoy the complexity. This game's entire fanbase was built on it.

 

Will you get a larger fan base from the casuals? Probably. So it's a viable business decision to dumb down the game. But to me, since you asked, it's missing out on the fun.

 

"Complexity. The games entire fanbase was built on it".

 

OMG you can't be serious. This is even too pompous for you.

You want complexity? Play "Victoria 2".

 

If people were serious about the older versions being better, they would be playing them. I'm sure some do. I liked the hub cities, but I dont go back because (not counting A17) the newer release were better in enough ways to play it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess this goes to show some reveals are best left to codenames and patch notes...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"Complexity. The games entire fanbase was built on it".

 

OMG you can't be serious. This is even too pompous for you.

You want complexity? Play "Victoria 2".

 

If people were serious about the older versions being better, they would be playing them. I'm sure some do. I liked the hub cities, but I dont go back because (not counting A17) the newer release were better in enough ways to play it.

 

I would definitely count A17....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I guess this goes to show some reveals are best left to codenames and patch notes...

 

I agree completely. I have been reading over the comments on this forum and now I feel compelled to make a comment of my own. I believe that I can safely say that, to the majority of the members of this forum, 7 Days To Die is a just game that they play and perhaps enjoy immensely. But to mad mole and a select few others... well it's their baby. And, no one wants to hear that their baby is ugly. So, I can understand mad moles responses. I also understand that a few players hate to see changes made to their favorite game. But, to condemn something before even trying it, is more about personal ego than game play-ability. I for one am eager to try the new version. I will wait until i have played it for a few days before I critique it. That being said; I believe that we all have pretty well beaten this farming dead horse into a gore pile. We should all hike up our big-boy britches and move on. I am very curious about the 24 MFs. What is your best guess at resolution time for those items?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You craft "farm plots" and place them where you want crops to grow. No more hoe, no more fertilizer. No more wondering where your crop grows or where to hit it to harvest, its way better, the testers are raving about it. Some people are actually farming now that never farmed before because it was too clunky.

 

I like the new system. I'm surprised that no clay is needed in the recipe, but I accept that. The farming plots will save me space in my roof gardens.

 

Do you need a perk or a book to build the farm pots ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I would definitely count A17....

 

For me, A17's Zombie AI was at too fine of a point. A "Go near the player and hit something/anything if not the player" Would have been fine.

 

I ended up building brute strength forts so they had to hit something, but, like clockwork, they would hit every other block 90% of the time. So I just crafted on horde night until I just decided to wait for A18.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cans of water were another sharp stick. An entire system that many players never used or even knew about and the ones who used it did so maybe once in a game. It was the best that could be done at the time but we have better tools now. It is no longer needed.

That they were balanced by using more inventory space was just the polishing on the turd.

 

 

The farming perks were never justifiable to me. Do a lot of people really buy them? I always farm, but I HATE spending limited resources(perk points) on unlimited resources that I can gain in other ways. I just made my farms a bit bigger and dealt with 1 item harvests. I would much rather spend a perk point on something that is absolutely unattainable in any other way.

If you're patient you can find schematics for the individual seeds.

Better yet, you can buy the perk, craft all the seeds, then use a respec potion and keep harvesting that farm without the perk while re-spending the skill points elsewhere. Same if you want to craft a gyrocopter...

(and that's why I still think that a respec potion is a horrible idea ;))

 

 

well he is right Guppy is far more than a "random fan" and MM knows that ....

But he likes it rough so it's all good. ;)

 

 

... The same steps are going to be the same for most things, so are you saying you going to remove those crafting steps for all items? Why are hoes singled out?

Because it's a one trick pony. You use it once then put it away. There is no point in modding them or doing anything else with them.

 

 

The square farm plot was added months ago and seemed pretty popular on the forum. Internally everyone loved it

To be fair, I still don't like that I have to dig a hole to place a farm plot that is even with the terrain. =P

The new plots have other advantages such as not fighting the voxel terrain so it's a toss-up.

 

The "removal of complexity" is largely made up. A complicated system is not automatically a better system. There was never a choice between using a hoe or using the other way because there was no other way.

 

 

I think the problem with farming is that’s it’s absolutely not worth putting skill points into. If I can play a “no crafting challenge” and not die, then what’s the point of farming at all?

Can a new player play a no-crafting challenge, though?

 

 

Forge is also too difficult for beginners.

 

Why wait until everything is melted down? I remember how many times I was asked how the forge works. There are many videos on YouTube explaining this process.

We know. It could really use better guidance on the forge screen.

Like if a forge is completely empty/new, display a big arrow showing "Fuel and light up the forge to smelt resources in these slots"

and another arrow to the resource counts "Smelted resources are used to craft items in the forge".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I like the new system. I'm surprised that no clay is needed in the recipe, but I accept that. The farming plots will save me space in my roof gardens.

 

Do you need a perk or a book to build the farm pots ?

 

100 clay soil was recently added to the recipe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Anyhow we thinned biome spawning of zeds (they are all like the snow biome now). Its good for the performance of the game, and biome zombies don't do anything but get in your way for no reason. WE did add more zombies to the night in the wasteland so if you want that challenge, go there at night, but the average guy doesn't need to get raped 10x on day 1 and rage quit.

 

I'm actually not a fan of this. I think the game is already too easy for my taste, and this will decrease the difficulty even further. That's even besides the other arguments of immersion into the game-world. It already felt too empty, now it's gonna be even worse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
To be fair, I still don't like that I have to dig a hole to place a farm plot that is even with the terrain. =P

 

It would be nice to have a version of the farm plot that was shaped like a plate as well.

That way, we wont get that gap between it and the terrain.

Edited by chikorina (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't understand how this is viewed as a backwards, not lateral, step in complexity. The hoe isn't removed, the gate of forging or looting one is. Fertilizer has actually returned and we don't need a cement mixer to make the stuff. (still, RIP turds) Teaching new players is as simple as telling them to search for the recipe rather than all the steps.

 

Old farming was never immersive in my opinion. The hoe was instantly useless(this isn't even a tool I use IRL-shovels and trowels are sufficient and serve more purposes. I avoid uni-task tools.). There wasn't any "working the land". You just hoed and planted, then you were done. No weeding, soil testing, pest control, pruning, training, adding supports, on-going fertilization, watering or anything else that I do and enjoy everyday in real life.

 

Additionally, they look ♥♥♥♥ing great. My favorite part is not needing the extra area for the plates to cover the density gap. I foresee myself using these in places where I already decorate with plants and now I don't have to be annoyed by looking at a voxel gap OR making space for the plates surrounding them.

 

Finally, I love them because in this whole mess Madmole mentioned tentative plans for the hoe returning as a tool to manipulate density. Have you ever made a winding dirt road climbing a mountain in this game? I have wasted so much time hoeing each block to a certain HP, then fine-tuning with a chainsaw, all while occasionally going too far with some blocks and having to replace them and start from full HP. God I want a block density manipulator so badly.

 

Anway, just wanted to add some more noise to the shout-fest before farming is off-topic.

Edited by andrough (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Anyhow you and a few others can grumble all you want, but having a wilderness chock full of zeds is a poor design, bad for performance, and a nuisance to the players.

 

Plus it was also one of the more attractive points of the game, but who am I..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Having the ability for tool tips on the station icons in the craft list would be useful. As more stations are added, it can get challenging to work out where something is crafted. Not a major issue in vanilla, so maybe make an endpoint available for modders to access.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Plus it was also one of the more attractive points of the game, but who am I..

 

 

You may have missed it(seems like many have), but he stated they plan to add random encounters that actually occur near the player. The removal of outside spawning is just the random spawning of zeds. I don't think the plan is for the outdoors to be 100% free of zombies or threats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You don't hoe. The hoe is gone. You craft a box and put it where you want a crop to be.

 

 

Mod Note: If you’re catching up please watch this video by Unholy Joe that demonstrates what Madmole is saying here.

 

 

Please continue streamlining the game. We haven't streamlined enough. There are still guys with a few hours in the game who are dying. Can't have that!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Na, I got attacked from behind while fighting zombies and instant bleed with no bandages. At a minimum they need to howl before they go agro and bark or something. Its completely unfair for day 1 survivors unless we changed them like pigs but they aggro if you get too close. Right now they just rush up silently and cheaply kill players who aren't armored yet, that isn't fun for noobs or veterans. Had I been in the wasteland and it was a rad dog, sure, cool eat me I deserved that, but it wasn't.

 

I'm glad you noticed, these stealth animals have always been a pain in the ***

Just let them make more noise yes please.

 

EDIT: I see it has been adressed, thank you MM

 

....

 

Anyhow you and a few others can grumble all you want, but having a wilderness chock full of zeds is a poor design, bad for performance, and a nuisance to the players.

 

Completely disagree, there are not enough wild zombie spawns actually. If the wasteland had trees I'd stay there for the thrills. (and no, ninja animals are not a thrill)

Edited by mr.natural
additional reply (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You may have missed it(seems like many have), but he stated they plan to add random encounters that actually occur near the player. The removal of outside spawning is just the random spawning of zeds. I don't think the plan is for the outdoors to be 100% free of zombies or threats.

 

I didn't miss it. I know how the system with random encounters works (see Elder Scrolls, or to a certain degree the Witcher series). Those are repetitive very quickly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I didn't miss it. I know how the system with random encounters works (see Elder Scrolls, or to a certain degree the Witcher series). Those are repetitive very quickly.

 

O.O More repetitive than the same enemies just spawning randomly?(EDIT: more repetitive than lumberjacks in the snow biome? I'd love to see something other than that there.) I am with the crowd that fondly remembers the killfest that old cities were, but this is not that. This is removing a bunch of worthless spawns that are just there to fill space. I drive or run past that stuff half the time, anyway. I really think the tired old "OH LORD LET'S HAND OUT THE PARTICIPATION TROPHIES" reactions are just kneejerk reactions with misplaced anger. I am looking forward to better FPS and targeted encounters instead of spawning a half dozen zombies and pretending that that's a busy, immersive world.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

I'm glad you noticed, these stealth animals have always been a pain in the ***

Just let them make more noise yes please.

 

Except the cougars, apart from maybe one blood-curdling roar just before they rip the back of your skull off. As frustrating as it could be to die to them, I loved the jumpscare those things provided in Red Dead Redemption. I can't think of anything scarier in that game.

Edited by andrough
d'ed a t (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I figured something was up when I checked the forum this morning and saw there were ~30 pages of unread posts..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...