Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[jdm311]

 

 

 

Just like yesterday almost; a wandering horde rushed by my house, stopped by my tree farm, and knocked it all over! All 16 trees! Perhaps these undead beings really do have a hatred for anything and everything that is living.

 

Edit: They weren't targeting them, of course; only dealing random swipes, with the odd one deciding to beat down a tree because it was in its way.

 

And they didn't replant? How rude...

[MechanicalLens]

I could tell you needed the extra hint. But I also can see now that anything more than barren empty rooms and hallways in a simple cardboard boxish configuration with zombies in plain sight and well lit to boot is going to enter the tedious egg and spoon race zone for you. Luckily for your fun, as Madmole has stated there are more super basic remnants and ruins. And luckily for my fun, the level designers continue to work and we WILL see more of their fun creativity in the future with more new POI's and more conversions of older POI's

 

I think I speak for a moderately sized portion of the 7D2D PC playerbase that the addition of several new types of basic POI's would be welcome, not just for the first night or two, but for setting up in general. (Not permanently of course, just for a week or two, maybe.) Coming across a town full of dungeons is amazing, but when the only "basic" POI I can find to plant my bedroll down is on top of a fire station, for instance... And if I find a cabin in the woods that is beside a trader and next to two towns - and excellent location to set up shop, at least temporarily - but that cabin has 3 entrances, a hole to an extensive concrete basement, a whole in the roof, and half of the POI is supported by wood poles... Cabins like that are excellent in design, and are very interesting, but when it comes to fortifying them, especially for the first night or two or three, it can be somewhat "annoying". (I believe in honest good work, but sometimes you've got to take a step back and admit that a project is too large of an undertaking for one individual, when they have such primitive tools and limited resources.) Regarding the ratio of dungeons to non-dungeons, and this is just my opinion, I think 95% (dungeons) to 5% (non-dungeons; this includes POI's such as fire stations, military bases, etc.) is a healthy amount.

 

(I apologize if there is any poor grammar in this post; i'm still waking up.)

[jdm311]

Maybe, getting them to run into them is tricky, if you watch the day 77 video they didn't do as much. No I literally thought I had enough ammo, demolishers do about 500 damage a hit, buffed by friends 1000 or more, so I was scared as hell they would waste my base if I didn't unload everything I had right then and there into them.

 

Its possible, I didn't do it though, this is my first go at traps. I remember some discussion on the dart traps sucking so I approved whatever to make them un suck.

 

Spit?

[Locusta]

I'm all for new mechanics but you know what felt really samey? All the non-dungeon POI's with their repeated mechanics (zombie on the floor in middle of the room, zombie in the corner unobstructed by anything and killable from the doorway, walking into a building and seeing everything there is to see from the door, a room with a couch, a dresser, a tv on the wall, chairs, and drapes, maybe a duffel bag in the corner, go up stairs --> end of hall --> bedroom --> ladder --> attic) It grew old and new was made. In the future new new will be made and hopefully with new mechanics.

 

But why more of old?

 

Why more of old? Well, imo, and I know I’ll probably get the same “fun trumps realism” go-to reply, but why would someone barricade their home with a single direct path to where they would essentially be hiding? And why would so many people do the same thing?

 

It would make more sense to have more variety in the overall interior designs. For example some that have no barricades, some that have very little barricades, and some that are a cluster to get through with no pathway. Change it up a bit so it’s not as linear. Not every civilian has a forklift to place pallets of boxes throughout their homes... just saying.

 

 

Loc

[wolfbain5]

Mutated Corn. Further proof that the GMO conspiracy caused the zombie outbreak.

[Odetta]

@Madmole

 

A possible solution, in addition to turrets for preventing loot stripping in pois is:

 

Have a boss(es) in the loot room that has a modifier that scales with all the sleepers still alive in a poi. Making them extremely dangerous in terms of Health, Speed, And Damage. Think of it as "Life Link". The more sleepers left alive in a poi the stronger he is, the more you kill; the weaker he gets. This way players can't skip and go for top loot because there will be Death incarnate waiting for them.

 

You already do this with block damage and planned to do it with irradiated (I think). So not that crazy of an idea imo. The bigger the poi the more dangerous the Zombie. You can make it so he doesn't leave a poi either, kinda of like he's defending his territory, he'll chase you but always goes back. This will prevent cheesing.

[Locusta]

@Madmole

 

A possible solution, in addition to turrets for preventing loot stripping in pois is:

 

Have a boss(es) in the loot room that has a modifier that scales with all the sleepers still alive in a poi. Making them extremely dangerous in terms of Health, Speed, And Damage. Think of it as "Life Link". The more sleepers left alive in a poi the stronger he is, the more you kill; the weaker he gets. This way players can't skip and go for top loot because there will be Death incarnate waiting for them.

 

You already do this with block damage and planned to do it with irradiated (I think). So not that crazy of an idea imo. The bigger the poi the more dangerous the Zombie. You can make it so he doesn't leave a poi either, kinda of like he's defending his territory, he'll chase you but always goes back. This will prevent cheesing.

 

Wouldn’t this idea make stealthing harder and further limit choices? Also, I’m not a fan of bullet sponge solutions. No offence.

 

 

Loc

[Roland]

Providing disincentives is not the same as preventing. A safe with 2500 HP does equally give the impression that they don't want to give you the loot just so. Please invest some time if you want it.

And any closed door in your way could be interpreted in the same way, I don't see that the hiding makes much of a difference.

 

 

 

If their intention is to prevent you from accessing the room, they are making a really really bad job. Most(?) POIs have perfectly accessible loot-rooms, the hidden cement trick isn't used consequently.

The trick might also be used because of SI or to prevent woken zombies from breaking the walls instead of going through doors.

 

Only TFP can say if it is a real design rule or maybe only used by one or two rogue designers with self esteem problems

 

Since most pathways are constructed of pallets (wasn't someone just complaining about that?) and random junk like couches and ovens and such, I would say that the painted over cement is NOT for forcing anyone along a path. Now, if the pallets and sofas were cement painted to look like those things I would agree but most of the time once you have a top tier fireaxe and/or sledgehammer you can quickly go any direction you want with about the same convenience level...

[beerfly]

@Madmole

 

A possible solution, in addition to turrets for preventing loot stripping in pois is:

 

Have a boss(es) in the loot room that has a modifier that scales with all the sleepers still alive in a poi. Making them extremely dangerous in terms of Health, Speed, And Damage. Think of it as "Life Link". The more sleepers left alive in a poi the stronger he is, the more you kill; the weaker he gets. This way players can't skip and go for top loot because there will be Death incarnate waiting for them.

 

You already do this with block damage and planned to do it with irradiated (I think). So not that crazy of an idea imo. The bigger the poi the more dangerous the Zombie. You can make it so he doesn't leave a poi either, kinda of like he's defending his territory, he'll chase you but always goes back. This will prevent cheesing.

 

+1

 

And for the torture to be worst, the demolisher awakes the sleepers that are left alive after his life goes less than 60% ( or just random a value so noone knows what`s gonna be worst).

I really want more *Crap, I am scared* stuff, and this would contribute.

[MechanicalLens]

I don't know for sure. We're talking about every 10 to 20 blocks tighten the radius because you can still get that bum luck that requires digging up 10k of clay to finally find it.

 

That's cool. (:

 

But just an fyi, this still happens on occasion. Lol (Note: This was completely flat ground.) I mean, I'm not complaining, but still... Lol

 

[beerfly]

Wouldn’t this idea make stealthing harder and further limit choices? Also, I’m not a fan of bullet sponge solutions. No offence.

 

 

Loc

 

If demolisher`s spawn depends on player`s level, then in first few weeks we would be able to gather what is needed (using stealth, too), to clear them, of course balance should be precise. Food for thought actually, nice point.

[Roland]

Why more of old? Well, imo, and I know I’ll probably get the same “fun trumps realism” go-to reply, but why would someone barricade their home with a single direct path to where they would essentially be hiding? And why would so many people do the same thing?

 

It would make more sense to have more variety in the overall interior designs. For example some that have no barricades, some that have very little barricades, and some that are a cluster to get through with no pathway. Change it up a bit so it’s not as linear. Not every civilian has a forklift to place pallets of boxes throughout their homes... just saying.

 

 

Loc

 

I'd be happy with more chaotically placed obstructions. I like the blind corners and the tight quarter fighting. Why would anyone make a narrow passageway forcing any intruding zombies into narrow choke points? Go re-watch Madmole's last two videos for the answer. They would need to get in and out of their shelter but in case of a breach it makes sense to prevent a horde from being able to surround you.

 

Open rooms with zero obstructions and zombies in plain sight from the next room over is boring and simplistic. 10% of those in the game would be almost too much.

[beerfly]

<snip>

 

Well, the one who have burried it, must have been in a hurry

[Locusta]

+1

 

And for the torture to be worst, the demolisher awakes the sleepers that are left alive after his life goes less than 60% ( or just random a value so noone knows what`s gonna be worst).

I really want more *Crap, I am scared* stuff, and this would contribute.

 

I think you guys are forgetting that most poi loot is hardly worth the ammunition to get to. Adding bullet sponges to the mix only makes it worse imo. Why else do people nerdpole in the first place? Effort =/= reward.

 

 

Loc

[madmole]

@Madmole care to reply to this post? Don't have to read the whole thing just the initial question.

 

 

 

Indeed.

 

Please clarify your question in your next reply, I'm not digging through old posts to see what that was all about.

[Nimeni]

I was expecting more from the Demolisher, is not doing any dmg to block s from what i can see in the video.

[MechanicalLens]

All good stuff...and yeah, I never pay attention to the lights anyway because the path is usually self-evident.

 

But, as far as the "player choice" thing: the rub is, you don't know if that loot pinata at the end has already been looted or not on a MP server, so that steers you towards bypassing the rest of the POI too. I don't agree that it's meta if you have other people on your server bypassing it. It's in-game knowledge at that point. Someone that knows all the honey holes can spoil a very large area. I'm living by a very large town, and I hear people complaining about not being able to find good loot...and it will get worse when towns get smaller. The "loot bug" getting fixed would go a long way. You know the bug where if you pass within a few blocks of an empty container it resets the timer on loot respawn? Was that addressed for A18?

 

Even if it doesn't get fixed, there is a way around it for MP worlds (or even SP, if you want). Just loot the container, then open it back up, place one object inside (such as a piece of wood) and don't open the container again until the loot timer finishes. You can live beside the container if you want and it will still refresh with that item inside. Just food for thought.

[madmole]

This would:

- fix the nerdpoling to loot issue

- randomize and revitalise gaming experience

- remove the "one way street" feeling of dungeon POIs to some extent.

 

Very good idea. Spread out the loot, no need for it to be all in the final mega bonanza room

 

Players want to feel rewarded and find a substantial loot cache. Piece mealing it would be like when we removed the payload harvest at the end, it wasn't good.

 

 

We've talked about several ideas, heres a couple that need to percolate a bit.

Add a boss to the level area who's hard to kill. He drops a keycode which unlocks the super chest at the end. Super chests will become invulnerable and the keycode would be the only way to get in.

 

Could involve some kind of switch that opens the box, or turns on power to read on a terminal the key code or releases the kraken that has the code.

 

Could hide the code on a corpse in the map somewhere randomly.

 

Auto turrets could help protect the loot area. Find kill switch to disable them or fight them.

 

We're still thinking about it, its an a19+ thing.

[madmole]

Will A18 be playable without POI's, or are there essential skills/perks that needs books to be unlocked?

 

You can acquire books from trash, mailboxes, traders, but the best place is book cases, typically in nice houses and book stores.

[Locusta]

I'd be happy with more chaotically placed obstructions. I like the blind corners and the tight quarter fighting. Why would anyone make a narrow passageway forcing any intruding zombies into narrow choke points? Go re-watch Madmole's last two videos for the answer. They would need to get in and out of their shelter but in case of a breach it makes sense to prevent a horde from being able to surround you.

 

Open rooms with zero obstructions and zombies in plain sight from the next room over is boring and simplistic. 10% of those in the game would be almost too much.

 

I can agree that unbarricaded houses could maybe be boring or too easy, but I think the game needs a bit of that so not everything is a chore. Obviously the loot could reflect the amount of effort? Take the Shotgun Messiah factory for example, it’s absolutely massive. The downside is it takes two in game days to get through and you get almost the same loot as anywhere else. I mean, it’s a gun factory! It should be a goldmine for weapons and a pain to get through. Right now, to me, it’s just a time-sink.

 

Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE this game. Over 1500 hours played. Still playing a no crafting challenge mode atm. Have never modded.

 

 

Loc

[madmole]

do i dig in the direction of the arrow? ... because some of mine are pointing in n,e,w,s positions and not down or up..

 

i am so confused now.

 

also, when i see an arrow in a poi, is that a cue for something?

 

sorry... i couldnt resist... i'll go hide in my cave now.

 

i simply loved the day 84 video... was worth staying up to see it.

 

It was a ton of fun. I love this game now, and its really weird starting to feel like a fanboy of your own game.

[Roland]

Oh you're mistaken; I'm not arguing that the old poi's were better, I'm arguing that their design is better to have as a majority. I don't need "Good loot" in every poi, so I'm happy to go into a normal house that has some standard day 1 junk (clothes, few cans of food, maybe a cooking pot) and call it a day.

 

That's in fact what I want.

 

Which is in fact exactly what you get when you only do a partial clearing of one of those POI's which is exactly what I explained and then got mocked for wanting to find cooking pots over and over again for the whole game.

 

I would *love* the dungeon poi's to have special loot I can't get anywhere else, to make them worth the effort, but do you know what I find when I go through those poi's? Clothes, some cans of food, and a cooking pot. Oh yeh and the occasional pile of goodies, certainly nothing I *need*.

 

That's because you just follow the path..lol. Break open some of those nasty pallets people are complaining about to go your own way and you'll soon have a stack of cement, cobblestones, and parts (mech, electrical, plastic).

 

And that finite selection of poi's? With the new dynamic block system, it doesn't have to be that way. They could literally have the interior of every building different, if they designed it from a different point of view. Why does a desk have to be limited to open vs closed? Why can't it be a nightstand, a bookcase, a trap, or even a wall?

 

They like them designed by their team. Not sure whether they have looked into this level of randomizing interior decorations and loot containers.

 

More to the point though, why does EVERY house have dozens of these pallets inside of them? They're like onions in chinese food... they're cheap, and they fill up the plate.

 

But tasty. Those pallets get me into flagstone blocks a lot sooner than through digging clay and breaking stone.

 

There are just too many valid arguments against the amount of dungeon poi's. Thankfully TFP agrees with me on this one, and is adding more "generic" ones to the mix.

 

This will be interesting to see how thankful and agreeable you are going to be on this point once you get to playing A18. I don't think more "remnants and ruins" mean what you are expecting in the way of classic POI's to explore...

[Jarod_Silverstar]

What regular POI takes half a day to clear out?

 

A major issue in MP is many people nerdpole straight to where the good loot is, whether it's on the roof or in an attic space, so when you go through the POI you get to the end just to find out the good stuff is already gone. Any fixes on that? Maybe spread the loot out a bit more evenly throughout the POI?

 

The payoff at the end was a good idea, but people circumvented that right off the bat.

 

Maybe have 2-3 checkpoints in the house that need to be cleared before the main loot cache is spawned? Or some type of percentage modifier that if you clear 10% of the house the loot is reduced to 10% of normal? They already have some of that code in Trader quests that you have the clear the POI before the quest is complete...

[Roland]

I can agree that unbarricaded houses could maybe be boring or too easy, but I think the game needs a bit of that so not everything is a chore. Obviously the loot could reflect the amount of effort? Take the Shotgun Messiah factory for example, it’s absolutely massive. The downside is it takes two in game days to get through and you get almost the same loot as anywhere else. I mean, it’s a gun factory! It should be a goldmine for weapons and a pain to get through. Right now, to me, it’s just a time-sink.

 

Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE this game. Over 1500 hours played. Still playing a no crafting challenge mode atm. Have never modded.

 

 

Loc

 

There seem to be more loot specific containers that are placed in specific POI's. It may not quite be where it needs to be but I think they are moving in the direction of not having generic loot that can be found anywhere being found everywhere not matter what POI it is.

[Locusta]

There seem to be more loot specific containers that are placed in specific POI's. It may not quite be where it needs to be but I think they are moving in the direction of not having generic loot that can be found anywhere being found everywhere not matter what POI it is.

 

I hope that is the case. I think that alone would definitely help. Thanks for the responses Roland. \m/

 

 

Loc