Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[agrastiOs]

154 MF bugs now. Interesting enough the programmers have hardly any and its levels and art who have more. Gazz has over 50, so you guys can pretty much badger Gazz to get A18 out, the rest of us are in good shape. I'll start bailing him out when I'm done with mine, I have 10 left.

Great. Thanks for telling us that. We'll spam Gazz to get that sweet Kraken.

[Sigil_Thane]

I'm old AF and think metric is 1000% better system, and I grew up learning inches/feet/ounces/miles. I'm damn good with fractions too, but at the end of the day are inferior to a simple divisible by 10 system.

 

That explains the decimal based time in the admin menu.... let's slide the time to 08:45.... er, 08.75

 

Visual example:

[Sigil_Thane]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Linux and Mac are the platforms in question. Don't start speculation about consoles.

 

They're dead until TFP explicitly say otherwise.

 

SPEAKING of Linux... (my turn to be an adcocate)

 

Has there been much progress on the Vulkan implementation? (which is better than DirectX by virtue of being Open)

 

The last time I tried forcing Vulkan I got the Purple screen, like this:

[The Gronk]

That explains the decimal based time in the admin menu.... let's slide the time to 08:45.... er, 08:75

 

Decimal time is real and was almost a universal thing...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_time

 

To say the Brits use either metric or imperial exclusively is a misnomer. Much like our language and food we'll happily use whatever the hell we feel like at any particular moment.

 

Long distance = Miles

Short distance = Metres

Beer = Pints

Milk = Litres

Produce weight = kilos

Personal weight = Stones

 

We even have a few pre-imperial measurements knocking around in some of the older colloquialisms and folk tales.

[alchemi2]

Yep Hands for horse height

[Sigil_Thane]

Decimal time is real and was almost a universal thing...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_time

 

True, it just seems kinda weird to mix a 24 hour day with a decimal "Minute".

[bobross]

Simple reason for why the game should stay in kilometers/meters and not be an option: Because someone running a server will set it to miles, and then all the bitching will be about "why the hell is this map only 4.97 miles across instead of just being sane and rounding up to 5 miles?! What the hell TFP?!?! And why are all these blocks in weird fractions?!"

[agrastiOs]

Actually, the metric system was tried here in the US, but didn't catch on...except in two areas I can think of off the top of my head...

 

1) The auto industry. Metric nuts and bolts. Car engines rated in liters, like 3.8 liter and 6.6 liter instead of 231 or 454 cubic inches.

 

2) Drugs. Lots of drugs are sold by the gram. (insert your own experience here).

Also ammo, isn't it? 7.62 mm and etc.

[Sigil_Thane]

Also ammo, isn't it? 7.62 mm and etc.

 

Except when you are talking about Caliber... aka .50 Cal Barrett sniper rifle/Desert Eagle, or the .45 Magnum Revolver.

[Mechanimal]

Simple reason for why the game should stay in kilometers/meters and not be an option: Because someone running a server will set it to miles, and then all the bitching will be about "why the hell is this map only 4.97 miles across instead of just being sane and rounding up to 5 miles?! What the hell TFP?!?! And why are all these blocks in weird fractions?!"

 

I didn't mean to fuel some campaign to include miles, I am accustomed to the way it is now just fine, even if I convert it in my head every time, I am used to that. I was more trying to make a point that in certain circumstances, like temperature, it is far more important to at least have an option between the two systems of you care anything for the sanity of your overall user base. I understand Fahrenheit in a way that is functional and meaningful, but tell me a temp in Celsius and I have no ♥♥♥♥ing idea what to think. Weight systems are their own special mess that gladly we don't really need to get into in this game. My point was far more about it being a better design choice to just give an option on such things, not force one side or the other, because on this topic you can't, it's impossible without alienating a significant number of players. If a server chooses one and you can't change it(I am pretty sure this is a user option though, not server controlled)then you might just have to deal, whine away, if it were my server I'd ban you for being a petty nuisance. But your point I think is moot because again I think it is a user option as to what units each player sees, not a variable forced by the server in the first place.

[FileMachete]

On 'temp', personally I do hope you retain either/both f/C. Definately like the idea that the de-buff will basically show, "you need X to be ok".

Reason to maintain the basic, "it is X degrees" is so, hopefully, we could get an idea that, "it's about 110 at noon in the desert", and then later on, by looking at the stat pages, be able to tell that this piece, and this piece means I'm ok up to X degrees.

In other words, once we had an idea of how hot/cold a biome gets we could plan/mix-n-match in another biome to prepare.

 

--

 

Edit: just caught up on the thread, ouch. So Mechanimal, if you know the answer to this and are inclined let me know by pm

 

@Mechanimal, do you know what the basic reason for using 12ths was for geometry?

 

I think I used to know what it was... Something about dividing up a circle... maybe really old school mechanical means?

 

The Time bit for hours, first & second orders of "my-newt-ness" (minute, very small) all came from measuring the Sun, so ultimately a 'circle'.

As clocks became more accurate they needed units to represent the finer precision, so 'a my-newt portion of an hour' (minutes), then later even finer led to, 'a second order of my-newt-ness' (seconds).

 

And 24 (hours) & 60 (minutes/seconds) evenly divide by 12 so, 12ths/dozenal --- geometry/astronomy

[Mechanimal]

On 'temp', personally I do hope you retain either/both f/C. Definately like the idea that the de-buff will basically show, "you need X to be ok".

Reason to maintain the basic, "it is X degrees" is so, hopefully, we could get an idea that, "it's about 110 at noon in the desert", and then later on, by looking at the stat pages, be able to tell that this piece, and this piece means I'm ok up to X degrees.

In other words, once we had an idea of how hot/cold a biome gets we could plan/mix-n-match in another biome to prepare.

 

--

 

@Mechanimal, do you know what the basic reason for using 12ths was for geometry?

 

I think I used to know what it was... Something about dividing up a circle... maybe really old school mechanical means?

 

The Time bit for hours, first & second orders of "my-newt-ness" (minute, very small) all came from measuring the Sun, so ultimately a 'circle'.

As clocks became more accurate they needed units to represent the finer precision, so 'a my-newt portion of an hour' (minutes), then later even finer led to, 'a second order of my-newt-ness' (seconds).

 

And 24 (hours) & 60 (minutes/seconds) evenly divide by 12 so, 12ths/dozenal --- geometry/astronomy

 

I believe the reason is a very similar purpose to why I prefer it to do actual math: it is useful when working with basic proportions like 3 and 4. You can smoothly cut a circle int o 1/3's and 1/4's and so on, but it would be a nightmare of runaway numbers if you tried using 10. Geometry is one of those weird crossovers where both are present, the numbers themselves are in decimal, but all of the proportions are 12 based. Same with time, be it hours or months in a year. Just a shame we couldn't preserve it for our actual math, I never cringe when I need to cut a thing into 1/3rds, smoothly, but my calculator ♥♥♥♥s itself trying to give me smooth answer. It can't, that same problem results in infinite 3's no calc screen is big enough to show, never will be. Anyway, we off-topic, sure it is interesting and important, just not here and now. I will keep killing Z by the kilo no matter how many kilometers I need to traverse, meter by meter, just for the love of all that is holy let me keep my Fahrenheit.

[TSBX]

So is there any discussion about A18 going on or are we just going to bore everybody with math-chat? (Roland branded math chat is different because he is a cool and fun guy).

[FileMachete]

fair enough Mech heh.

 

MM, question on the draw bridge/s. Is it still the one, and same size or..?

And, any chance that it will be usable 'upside-down'? So when it's "raised/up" it would be down into a moat/gap, but when "open/down" you could still drive across it?

 

Not a big deal, was just thinking it could be fun to dump zeds down off the bridge

...(lightbulb) hey! what if we could squish em by raising up the bridge?

 

Edit: if at some point there are new model/s for draw-bridges, could one maybe have a deck made of 'grates', so we could shoot through it when it was up?

[ReDelicious]

I'm a fan of not losing stats on death anymore. The hardest part of this new death penalty for me though, will be trying to explain to my parents how to mod it out lol. The game will literally be near unplayable for them.

[ravend]

Do we know the new death penalty?

[Tin]

Do we know the new death penalty?

 

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?111778-Alpha-18-Dev-Diary!!&p=1000946&viewfull=1#post1000946

[PO_Man_3849]

I'm a fan of not losing stats on death anymore. The hardest part of this new death penalty for me though, will be trying to explain to my parents how to mod it out lol. The game will literally be near unplayable for them.

From what i read, you will not "lose stats" but you will lose the XP that you require to advance to the next level. Example if you're level 20 and you're 25% towards level 21 and you die. Your xp would go back to 0% on level 20 and you'd have to make up what you lost. Then if you die again you would have to earn 125% xp to actually reach level 21

 

Someone correct me if that's not right?

[Haidrgna]

From what i read, you will not "lose stats" but you will lose the XP that you require to advance to the next level. Example if you're level 20 and you're 25% towards level 21 and you die. Your xp would go back to 0% on level 20 and you'd have to make up what you lost. Then if you die again you would have to earn 125% xp to actually reach level 21

 

Someone correct me if that's not right?

 

I am sure it will remove x% on death (10?) and if you die a lot you probably will stay at that level. Path of Exile uses a similar system, it can be quite brutal on higher levels where one death can negate experienced gained over several days or weeks.

 

Dying a lot will mean you likely need more experience, but when already at zero for that level it should not further penalize you. At least this death penalty does not make it harder for the next fight like the others used to do. But it will widen the gap between players that are good at staying alive vs people that die a lot. But it might also prevent people from using death as a cure all or free teleport.

[Mechanimal]

I am sure it will remove x% on death (10?) and if you die a lot you probably will stay at that level. Path of Exile uses a similar system, it can be quite brutal on higher levels where one death can negate experienced gained over several days or weeks.

 

Dying a lot will mean you likely need more experience, but when already at zero for that level it should not further penalize you. At least this death penalty does not make it harder for the next fight like the others used to do. But it will widen the gap between players that are good at staying alive vs people that die a lot. But it might also prevent people from using death as a cure all or free teleport.

 

The way MM described it made it sound more like a "Death Debt" of 25%. You either have that 25% removed from your current level progress, or if that amount exceeds your progress so far in that level, it gets replaced by a red bar representing that difference. Example, say you were 10% into level 15 or something and you decided to take Roland's advice and wrench a mine. After a tirade of curses you gently wipe the angry laugh spittle off your screen, wake up at your bedroll, and notice your blue progress bar is now red, and slightly larger than it was when blue, because 15 is larger than 10, just sticking with my example numbers. Point is you have to earn that XP back just to get to the point you were at when you took that beautifully awful advice and got blown sky high. So thinking of it as a debt makes sense, a 25% XP penalty that you must re-earn to get back to where you were. Sometimes it will just subtract from your progress bar, the only time that red will show is if it exceeds what progress you had already. And if you keep dying it adds up, so you could end up with a rather large red bar of debt you have to earn down before you can progress any further.

 

That's how I see it as it was explained, think that's about right, we'll see.

[AtomicUs5000]

The way MM described it made it sound more like a "Death Debt" of 25%. You either have that 25% removed from your current level progress, or if that amount exceeds your progress so far in that level, it gets replaced by a red bar representing that difference. Example, say you were 10% into level 15 or something and you decided to listen to Roland and try to wrench a mine. After a tirade of curses you gently wipe the angry laugh spittle off your screen, wake up at your bedroll, and notice your blue progress bar is now red, and slightly larger than it was when blue, because 15 is larger than 10, just sticking with my example numbers. Point is you have to earn that XP back just to get to the point you were at when you took that beautifully awful advice and got blown sky high. So thinking of it as a debt makes sense, a 25% XP penalty that you must re-earn to get back to where you were. Sometimes it will just subtract from your progress bar, the only time that red will show is if it exceeds what progress you had already. And if you keep dying it adds up, so you could end up with a rather large red bar of debt you have to earn down before you can progress any further.

 

That's how I see it as it was explained, think that's about right, we'll see.

 

That's how I understood it.

[unholyjoe]

food for thought... the higher levels who have the experience/know how, should be a tad bit careful.

 

but i may not even be seeing this correctly either... hmmm

[sillls]

food for thought... the higher levels who have the experience/know how, should be a tad bit careful.

 

but i may not even be seeing this correctly either... hmmm

 

Perhaps if you put down that can of Dr. Pepper, you could see better.

[TSBX]

Experience loss like in Diablo 2 is definitely the way to go. Good job team.

[Sigil_Thane]

So is there any discussion about A18 going on or are we just going to bore everybody with math-chat? (Roland branded math chat is different because he is a cool and fun guy).

 

I asked about Vulkan implementation (It's natively supported by Unity.)

 

...I'm starting to wonder if I'm crouched in the corner so nobody can hear me.