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madmole

Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!  

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  1. 1. Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

    • A18 Stable is Out!
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For me, death in the game should give you the opportunity to learn something from it.

 

Yeah, learning the game to prevent the causes of death is good.

 

I don't see a hard death penalty as useful. Especially not to artificially give survival a higher value.

 

Even if there were no death penalty at all, I would never take death lightly. There are certainly players who only fool around, but they would not be deterred by a hard death penalty.

 

What do you mean by "artificially"? Death is the absence of survival - its opposite, the "effect" of not-surviving. Death is only a word we use to describe something. If that word carries no value, no weight, it means nothing. If the effect of not surviving is... well nothing, then surviving = not-surviving, simply because nothing changes. There is nothing more natural than raising the value of survival by making the effects of not surviving something negative. A concept simple enough.

 

Even if for some personal reason which I cannot imagine, you choose to not take death lightly, factually/practically, it doesn't carry any weight without actually having consequences as explained above. And yes, there are many kinds of players. Some will enjoy it, some won't, et cetera.

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heck you might as well make the club have parts also.

 

Done!

 

Every high end weapon or tool that you can craft has parts.

Simple and consistent. Baseball bats are no special snowflakes. They are weapons.

 

Very much unlike the previous weapon parts system, low level weapons or their parts are not frustratingly useless and scrapping them to bring the parts home and maybe craft something better with them saves inventory space.

 

The previous weapon parts were also in no way comparable to mods. They offered zero choice and gameplay, only micromanagement.

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His full name is Rolandstein. You should never call him just a messenger. Never. Go in the corner.

 

Dude, that's the corner where I store my rocks. He'll break some!

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wait like a hardcore mode like you have 5 lives and once you have died that many times your saved game is deleted or maybe a one life only option so you die and also cannot play that save now that's a brutally punishing death penalty option if they ever add that into the game

 

Maybe in addition to the death scene where zombies eat you, there could be one where a Good Samaritan shows up and drags you off-screen. Could be to start out a very small percent chance to actually die. At first you usually get saved and have near-death sickness but any death could be dead is dead. Each near death could raise the percentage a bit so the threat of an actual death gets higher the more you die.

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There. Please stop with the "omg but inventory is unrealistic so everything else can be stupid as well!" argument <3

 

Because it's perfectly acceptable to continue to push that everything has to meet a certain set of immersive/realism arguments?

'Stupid' seems like an opinion. Would it be fair to ask people who are asking other people to stop - to stop?

 

A: Is it not the correct example?

Would it be ok to use spitting cops as an example?

(Can anyone else think of any others?)

 

Lots of people read these forums. Couldn't the inventory 'issue' be considered a 'gate' type of issue that could easily be understood by a lot of people relatively quickly?

 

B: In the kickstarter and (some other places) it is mentioned that this game was/is/trying(?) to be a convergence of MineCraft/Skyrim/and a tower defense game. (What would/does that mean?) And haven't the devs mentioned that the end goal of 7D2D is NOT to be a full on real life zombie survival simulation?

 

C: HAS TFP released a 'story' that explains how, why, or when things in 7D2D are they way they are? (We have had references as to where.)

 

 

<3

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One of the things I enjoyed most in 17.0 was the fact that I, at last, had to fear death, which automatically made survival much more rewarding. Sneak it back into the game Gazz plx!

 

I would like to discuss death penalty with you :D

 

Yes it gives you something to fear... but is that fear changing your playstyle? How does it intigrate into the game?

 

Losing 10 wellness meant that you died easily and you had to eat more good food, meaning more farming or looting.

 

Deathpenalty means everything you do feels unrewarding and comes to a crawl.

I usually just stand there and tab out. It is just not fun at all.

 

I want a penalty for death, but not like that. Maybe a "you get 50% more damage from Z's" or "you lose thirst/food 5x faster for 20 minutes"

 

But "every action you take is slower and its just no fun for 15 minutes" is such a bad idea, I cant even :D

 

 

Tl;Dr:

Penalty: yes please

"Death penalty" how it is implemented right now: HELL NO!!!

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[...]

 

I won't get into how realism in games is more of the consistency in the game's own universe and not a comparison to our exact reality.

 

But here's a rule of thumb IMO: realism should be applied for the purpose of enriching gameplay and consistency and realism should never trample gameplay. As simple as that.

 

For example, players *must* be able to carry unrealistic weight, because absolute realism in this case would trample the building aspect of the game. An inventory slot system (the one we have is kind of meh, but it's better than nothing), serves the game universe's consistency while not trampling the building aspect of the game, so it's a net-positive in the whole scheme of things. The game is already full elements that try to be realistic because of its setting, so consistency is important - not as important as gameplay - but achieving both would be ideal.

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Dont! You are only the messanger :D We are thankful for every detail you give us, so that we might influence them enough to overthink what in my opinion is bad design...

 

Fixed it for you. Just remember for every opinion or preference one may have, there are dozens of different or opposing ones.

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Penalty: yes please

"Death penalty" how it is implemented right now: HELL NO!!!

 

I would too, in detail, but ♥♥♥♥ty Monday morning incoming :p

I don't disagree with you - the ideal death penalty should be something that bears weight, but at the same time doesn't feel like a drag.

 

In short, an ideal DP:

-Shouldn't cause a death loop.

-Shouldn't just make actions more of a chore.

-Should cause a negative effect which will make people want to avoid it.

 

It's just that in this case, I want an option that won't take any time for it to be implemented for A18, which, for me, would be better than nothing for the time being.

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Maybe in addition to the death scene where zombies eat you, there could be one where a Good Samaritan shows up and drags you off-screen. Could be to start out a very small percent chance to actually die. At first you usually get saved and have near-death sickness but any death could be dead is dead. Each near death could raise the percentage a bit so the threat of an actual death gets higher the more you die.

 

Also a severe negative rep once that's in. Maybe a Duke Tax you have to pay or they raid your base. Lots you can do to make death interesting.

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Any news on making cvars trackable on the HUD?

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there. Fixed it for ya.

 

Lol, for someone who criticizes nearly every thing TFP does you sure are touchy when it happens to you ;)

 

My apologies if I hurt your feelings to the point you felt name calling was necessary. Name calling removed - moderator. I was just trying to point out folks have different opinions about good game design and I'm not sure why you feel yours is the only one that can possibly be correct *shrugs*

 

May the rest of your day be merry sir.

Edited by Crater Creator (see edit history)

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The most severe death penalty possible for me has been in about as long as I can remember: delete backpack on death. Stat debuffs, various quest/rep/etc regression, and anything else I can think of pales in comparison to the chance of losing my prized gear. Just turn that on until the game is in a more developed state and they have other mechanics for death to affect. Scary!

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The only true immersive death penalty would be if you weren't allowed to play with that character at all because you're dead. Dead is dead players would certainly be thrilled but other players probably not.

 

Start over with a new character in the same world.

That way if you know the map by heart you could find your old base break in to it and "steal" your stuff back.

Even better would be if your old character roams the land as a Zombie. If you kill it you will get your bag back.

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Maybe in addition to the death scene where zombies eat you, there could be one where a Good Samaritan shows up and drags you off-screen. Could be to start out a very small percent chance to actually die. At first you usually get saved and have near-death sickness but any death could be dead is dead. Each near death could raise the percentage a bit so the threat of an actual death gets higher the more you die.

 

That would look really fun in MP

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The most severe death penalty possible for me has been in about as long as I can remember: delete backpack on death. Stat debuffs, various quest/rep/etc regression, and anything else I can think of pales in comparison to the chance of losing my prized gear. Just turn that on until the game is in a more developed state and they have other mechanics for death to affect. Scary!

 

That penalty mostly increases inventory management because it is not that effective when one can craft and place a chest anywhere they like before they put themselves at any kind of risk.

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Fixed it for you, at least according to my opinion. In my opinion it's important to remember the commonly held(at least in my opinion) opinion that for every opinion or preference one may have, there are dozens of different or opposing ones.

 

In my opinion, it's fair to assume that when someone makes a statement, they are implying it is their own opinion unless otherwise stated, because in my opinion most people have at least, in my opinion, a basic understanding of the notion of objectivity, and because in my opinion inserting the phrase "in my opinion" or a similar (in my opinion) phrase in every case in where in my opinion it is technically valid makes a sentence significantly less readable, which in my opinion is not worth the extra ambiguity that I believe the phrase in "in my opinion" is intended to solve.

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That penalty mostly increases inventory management because it is not that effective when one can craft and place a chest anywhere they like before they put themselves at any kind of risk.

 

Not backpack loot. Loot isn't scary to lose. I'm talking about gear. You can't just drop all your weapons and armor before putting yourself in danger. I don't think the criteria you mentioned earlier really cover it. I think the essential thing a death penalty should do is scare the ♥♥♥♥ out of you in dire situations. The fruit of all your efforts is in your hands and on your body throughout your playthrough and losing that stuff sucks.

Edited by andrough
Forgot quote (see edit history)

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Every high end weapon or tool that you can craft has parts.

Simple and consistent. Baseball bats are no special snowflakes. They are weapons.

 

Very much unlike the previous weapon parts system, low level weapons or their parts are not frustratingly useless and scrapping them to bring the parts home and maybe craft something better with them saves inventory space.

 

The previous weapon parts were also in no way comparable to mods. They offered zero choice and gameplay, only micromanagement.

 

Does that also mean every weapon type upgrades at the same rate? Like is finding T2 stun baton parts equally as exciting as finding baseball bat parts? It seems easier to balance it that way, but the game would be more interesting/thematically appropriate if some character builds had less emphasis on weapon upgrades as a way to increase damage output than others.

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Not backpack loot. Loot isn't scary to lose. I'm talking about gear. You can't just drop all your weapons and armor before putting yourself in danger. I don't think the criteria you mentioned earlier really cover it. I think the essential thing a death penalty should do is scare the ♥♥♥♥ out of you in dire situations. The fruit of all your efforts is in your hands and on your body throughout your playthrough and losing that stuff sucks.

 

-It is not a constant through different situations and still creates the need to unequip, store and equip.

Surely there is a fear of losing them while casually clearing a POI for example, but if you know you will be putting yourself at great risk by e.g. clearing that dog pen or fighting the BM horde, it will still compel some players to take off that e.g. epic mining helmet they so luckily found earlier.

 

-It is not a constant through your playthrough.

You are terrified of losing that e.g. trusty duster that allows you to live in the desert without penalties in the early game, but after a while you end up having enough dusters in your storage to equip a whole army. It is important for it to be a constant through the playthrough and not get mitigated in the late game, because other progress venues already mitigate your chance of dying and if you mitigate death consequences, you also consequently mitigate the value of these venues.

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Start over with a new character in the same world.

That way if you know the map by heart you could find your old base break in to it and "steal" your stuff back.

Even better would be if your old character roams the land as a Zombie. If you kill it you will get your bag back.

 

 

How do you start over in the same world with a new character? How do you reset your level and skills and make it day one again but keep everything you have changed in the world but basically be like starting a totally new game with the starter quests and such?

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