Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
madmole

Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!  

1 member has voted

  1. 1. Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

    • A18 Stable is Out!
      0
    • :)
      1


Recommended Posts

Objectively, no. We have 167 textures in A16 and 173 textures in A17. Two of those textures cannot be selected directly in the R menu but they can be copied to the brush (yet another unfixed bug).

 

Many of the new textures look fugly though. Either due to terrible scaling (thanks to the new texture array where all textures seem to have the same size) or because they are too bright/pale. A lot of the nice and clean looking stuff from A16 has been replaced by worn out-looking versions. So subjectively, I have to agree.^^

 

The texture array is actually better when it comes to tiling. Atlases have problems that array's dont.

All textures are now 1K instead of the majority being 512 or lower. Lowest in 16 was 128x128.

 

As for the rest, there are reasons as to why they appear the way they do, but overall the texture quality is miles better than 16 was.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The texture array is actually better when it comes to tiling. Atlases have problems that array's dont.

All textures are now 1K instead of the majority being 512 or lower. Lowest in 16 was 128x128.

 

As for the rest, there are reasons as to why they appear the way they do, but overall the texture quality is miles better than 16 was.

 

Maybe from a technical point of view. I was talking about the aesthetics though. Just have a look at these screenshots:

 

bwg2EX8.jpg

 

 

Superbright flagstone:

Fw0jq6k.jpg

 

 

 

Well better yet. Just make it moddable ;)

 

But must require inner circle only

 

Hmm no. :-P

Edited by Pille (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Maybe from a technical point of view. I was talking about the aesthetics though. Just have a look at these screenshots:

 

bwg2EX8.jpg

 

 

That type of problem is one of creation. I spent much time trying to avoid that as much as possible, but it's very hard in a voxel world.

 

Superbright flagstone:

Fw0jq6k.jpg

 

 

Its not actually that bright by itself. Other elements effect lighting/colour/brightness of the textures.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That type of problem is one of creation. I spent much time trying to avoid that as much as possible, but it's very hard in a voxel world.

 

Ok but why was it far less terrible in A16?^^ I mean all textures extend over only one square meter / block. That doesn't look intended to me.

 

 

Its not actually that bright by itself. Other elements effect lighting/colour/brightness of the textures.

 

Even in the preview window of the brush it looks so bright... Quite annoying, even if the texture is not that bright by itself.

Edited by Pille (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ok but why was it far less terrible in A16?^^

 

 

 

It wasnt "far less", really. The more details you add, the more likely that is to occur.

The more resolution you have to play with, the more details you want to add.

Rinse, repeat, redo, catch22.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It wasnt "far less", really. The more details you add, the more likely that is to occur.

The more resolution you have to play with, the more details you want to add.

Rinse, repeat, redo, catch22.

 

No the issue is fairly unrelated to the level of detail of the textures. Textures that extended over several blocks in A16 has been squished onto the area of a single block / one square meter in A17. Ofc the level of detail makes it even worse in some cases but imo it's not the main problem. You can easily check the size of the patterns in textures for A16 and A17. The following example is even one of the more benign:

 

A16:

 

No2nHAs.jpg

 

 

 

A17:

 

3YdWcU0.jpg

 

 

 

The result is that you get far more repetitions within the same area. All textures in the current Alpha seem to use this kind of scaling.

Edited by Pille (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its not even the same texture.

 

A16 was a 512 texture with very little main detail over 4 blocks (2w,2h).

A17 is a 1K texture with much more detail over the same area so repeats more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Its not even the same texture.

 

A16 was a 512 texture with very little main detail over 4 blocks (2w,2h).

A17 is a 1K texture with much more detail over the same area so repeats more.

 

In A17 it looks like it's over 1 block (1w,1h)? If the A17 texture extends over the same area as the A16 texture why are there 4 repetitions within that area? That's what I mean. There are other examples of identical textures btw. Why can't we have 1K textures over 4 blocks? I don't understand why having more details means that we must have those repetitions...

 

I really hope that TFP are going to fix this.

Edited by Pille (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had a quick look at the blocks. Some mappings are still 1x1. You are correct.

 

Either intentional (which makes no sense), or weren't adjusted when size was increased from 512/256/128.

Array dictates all maps must be of equal size. I'll go with oversight, benefit of the doubt on TFP's part.

 

Either way, easy fix really. We could also fix ourselves via UABE if so inclined.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Don't forget that this is a magical workbench where you can craft auto turrets with friend/foe recognition from a few random parts.

 

Hell, I dont think they even had that type of recognition software in the aliens movies lol ..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No the issue is fairly unrelated to the level of detail of the textures. Textures that extended over several blocks in A16 has been squished onto the area of a single block / one square meter in A17. Ofc the level of detail makes it even worse in some cases but imo it's not the main problem. You can easily check the size of the patterns in textures for A16 and A17. The following example is even one of the more benign:

 

A16:

 

 

No2nHAs.jpg

 

 

 

 

A17:

 

 

3YdWcU0.jpg

 

 

 

 

The result is that you get far more repetitions within the same area. All textures in the current Alpha seem to use this kind of scaling.

 

 

Unity blog introduced a new very interesting free plugin to avoid repetition patterns on tileable textures, called procedural-stochastic-texturing. Hope TFP can start using soon, now that they are working on better terrain for a18:

 

image3-4.png

 

https://blogs.unity3d.com/es/2019/02/14/procedural-stochastic-texturing-in-unity/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Unity blog introduced a new very interesting free plugin to avoid repetition patterns on tileable textures, called procedural-stochastic-texturing. Hope TFP can start using soon, now that they are working on better terrain for a18:

 

That looks pretty sweet, but:

 

We have some performance comparisons on page 20 of the technical chapter:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QecekuuyWgw68HU9tg6ENfrCTCVIjm6l/view

It is on average 4-5 times slower than simple tiling. Although you can trade performance for memory by using smaller textures than you would normally need to avoid repetition patterns (all of the renders in this post are with 256² textures), which could be a win for some mobile projects.

(From a comment by someone at Unity Labs.)

 

So, I don't know if TFP will add it (or if they should). They have already had to deal with severe framerate drops when entering a POI, and from what I understand, it's due to the texture handling. Slowing it down more doesn't sound like a good idea.

 

More than happy to be wrong though.

 

(Also, I don't think this has anything to do with terrain, not sure why you brought that up?)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That looks pretty sweet, but:

 

 

(From a comment by someone at Unity Labs.)

 

So, I don't know if TFP will add it (or if they should). They have already had to deal with severe framerate drops when entering a POI, and from what I understand, it's due to the texture handling. Slowing it down more doesn't sound like a good idea.

 

More than happy to be wrong though.

 

(Also, I don't think this has anything to do with terrain, not sure why you brought that up?)

 

Well.. If it adds more processing power, then it's not a priority. As madmole said, he aims to get LESS complaints about performance.. And maaan I'd love to be able to fire up my Pentium II at a whopping 450 MHz and kick ass and chew bubblegum as if it was 1999!!

 

But I'll settle with a more modest amount of work done to the performance :smile-new:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Fataal

 

I just checked, and using the default controller options in the game, bank down on the gyro still is not implemented. Also, if you check the controller scheme display, it says the circle button is not used.

 

I also reported issues using the controller to select the preview window for things like the spotlight preview to adjust its angle, and those were never fixed either.

 

If you don't have a controller using tester, I'd be more than happy to fill those shoes. No one seems to be testing controller use at all, and thats kind of basic functionality.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
@Fataal

 

I just checked, and using the default controller options in the game, bank down on the gyro still is not implemented. Also, if you check the controller scheme display, it says the circle button is not used.

 

I also reported issues using the controller to select the preview window for things like the spotlight preview to adjust its angle, and those were never fixed either.

 

If you don't have a controller using tester, I'd be more than happy to fill those shoes. No one seems to be testing controller use at all, and thats kind of basic functionality.

 

I had some plans to play with controller, but when A17 is in final and pimps move to A18. Stuff that you mention actually made me rethink. Hope they fix these.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I had some plans to play with controller, but when A17 is in final and pimps move to A18. Stuff that you mention actually made me rethink. Hope they fix these.

 

There are actually more controller issues than I mentioned, and I did report them in several of the point releases, but none were ever commented on or acknowledged.

 

That said you can pretty much easily work around all the issues, and we've been playing on both our systems here with controllers for 3 years now.

 

My temp fix for the bank down was to split the touchpad on the ps4, and in steam bind the left side to c to bank down when flying. Sometimes the steam keyboard has issues, but you can usually just close it and reopen it to fix that. For targetting the spotlights n such, I just use the mousepad on my kb tro select it... its one of rthose things you set once and don't bother with again, so its not a huge issue.. is just annoying.

 

There is also something weird going on when using the shotgun... if you select reload using it, sometimes it reloads, and sometimes it reloads AND opens the crafting overlay. its easy to just close it again, but it is annoying ad really breaks concentration and immersion.

 

We play on 2 4k tvs from the couch, and using wireless keyboard can be a pita sometimes, so controllers are our go to choice.

 

None of the developers that reply here use controllers at all, so the issues aren't as glaring to them.. the worse issue though is not having the run toggle on vehicles.. especially the bike. After 5 minutes of mashing the stick down to pedal faster, or 10 minutes going faster on the motorcycle to a far quest poi, your thumb starts to cramp up.

 

One of the developers SERIOUSLY needs to try playing with a controller for a few hours with vehicles and electronics to see why I keep bringing the issue up... on steam it is advertised as having full controller support, and if they can't/won't fix it, it should be advertised as only having partial controller support.

 

Controller support was 100% perfect in a16.. a17 broke some things, and added some new issues (like the gyro control issue)

 

I don't think the controller flight has banking at all either... auto banking when turning (like in a plane) would probably be the best option.

 

Part of the problem is new additions and controls aren't really explained anywhere for a lot of items. There should be a popup window for items the first time you use them showing the controls and how they should be used.. not some encyclopedia entry you have to hunt for first. (Other games do this, and it works very well to train newer players, and most of those aforementioned games usually also have a game option to turn tutorials off.)

 

Thats really more going gold polish work though.... but the basic functionality IS a big deal and should have been done before each stable release, IMHO.

 

Imagine if functions didn't work using a keyboard.. the forums would go crazy if crouching or aiming a gun didn't work in a stable release.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I had a quick look at the blocks. Some mappings are still 1x1. You are correct.

 

Either intentional (which makes no sense), or weren't adjusted when size was increased from 512/256/128.

Array dictates all maps must be of equal size. I'll go with oversight, benefit of the doubt on TFP's part.

 

Either way, easy fix really. We could also fix ourselves via UABE if so inclined.

 

Ahh ok. I know you're the creator of a HD texture an lightning mod that's why I assumed a mistake in my thinking. haha. Glad to read that the issue can be easily mitigated correcting some mappings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

no problem with my controller other then i cant use them :)

 

 

i hate gyros... i tried one in real life when i was a teen many moons ago... i didnt have a good experience. :)

 

not picking an argument just saying it works for me unless there is a different brand that is causing the issue.

Edited by unholyjoe (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
no problem with my controller other then i cant use them :)

 

 

i hate gyros... i tried one in real life when i was a teen many moons ago... i didnt have a good experience. :)

 

not picking an argument just saying it works for me unless there is a different brand that is causing the issue.

 

Thanks for the video. Will get an xbox controller and give a try.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks for the video. Will get an xbox controller and give a try.

 

when it was originally fixed i had to open the control options and click on set default before i got it to work. good luck

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
good luck

Will be needed. I bet there are apes more capable of playing with joystick, than me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Will be needed. I bet there are apes more capable of playing with joystick, than me.

 

well i have been called an ape before but i can never get the hang of controllers and or joysticks either.... i can use mouse and keyboard :) sometimes :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...