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madmole

Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!  

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  1. 1. Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

    • A18 Stable is Out!
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On the subject of the M60, if it becomes OP, which it kinda looks like already, add a requirement to the ammo since it's chain fed, it should require a metal of some sort to make the links to form the ammo. That would separate the early game use of 7.62 VS late game?

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LOL. We need one of those, just for those forum rats that would know where it came from. :D

 

Big boss zed for the shotgun messiah factory :D Or water works, makes more sense there as the 'treasure' room is under ground.

 

Would be fun to have Giant Madmoles show up underground in just the radiated and wasteland biomes:lol:

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Why not just have biomes with higher difficulty and better loot.

 

Giving biomes more meaning would be more interesting than just ore location for sure.

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How about giving each block a static variable for pathing cost, possibly modified by the percentage of HP lost, instead of trying to mangle block HP and the pathing system together?

 

Well that would make the system more robust for designers, which I'm never opposed to. In fact that variable may already be implemented, since doors are weighted differently than other blocks.

 

But in practice, I don't see why HP and path weight wouldn't be coupled. Zombies take the path of least resistance, and generally their only mechanism to get past an obstruction on that path is to destroy it. Ergo, the amount of resistance is the hit points of the blocks involved.

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You would have about a 30 second grace period to pick up a block then it becomes permanent. We could keep wood frames or have scaffolding blocks. Nobody is using frames any more, everyone uses cobblestone because you can clearly see the rotation it is in (frames are hard to tell), it doesn't need immediately updated to offer some protection.

 

Really the only thing good about frames is you can pick it up and block something out. So if we do away with frames, allow a grace period to pick it up again, and add scaffolding blocks for building high structures I think we have a better system. Then allow contextual upgrade material on a hammer so you can upgrade wood straight to reinforced concrete by setting the material to concrete. No more clunky upgrading and wasting tons of materials to reach the best material. No more accidentally upgrading a block to steel and wasting an hour tearing it out. No more breaking a 10000 hit point block only to see one with 5000 take its place.

 

I use them all the time to layout building plans and they stay in place a damn sight longer than 30 seconds before I pick them back up. 30 seconds wouldn't even let me get one room laid out.

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I use them all the time to layout building plans and they stay in place a damn sight longer than 30 seconds before I pick them back up. 30 seconds wouldn't even let me get one room laid out.

 

You would still use them that way. What you describe is exactly the function frames would have. They wouldn’t upgrade to wood blocks any longer. He means that very few make wooden structures by upgrading frames to wood blocks. Most build with flagstone and use frames to mark, flatten, plan, and assist in mobility while building. This functionality would remain and even improve if frames become like scaffold blocks from Minecraft.

 

Not only that but it would be the flagstone blocks you could pick back up again right away if you made a mistake in placement. You can’t do THAT a damn bit right now... :)

Edited by Roland (see edit history)

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You would still use them that way. What you describe is exactly the function frames would have. They wouldn’t upgrade to wood blocks any longer. He means that very few make wooden structures by upgrading frames to wood blocks. Most build with flagstone and use frames to mark, flatten, plan, and assist in mobility while building. This functionality would remain and even improve if frames become like scaffold blocks from Minecraft.

 

Not only that but it would be the flagstone blocks you could pick back up again right away if you made a mistake in placement. You can’t do THAT a damn bit right now... :)

 

I still use upgraded wood frames as roofing.

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So like a "timer" on a newly places block, to pick it up again like a frame when misplacing it (3 seconds should be enough)

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But do you really have to plan out the entire roof first? By time you get to the roof you know how the blocks need to be placed and you’ll be able to immediately pick up any wedges that are placed incorrectly.

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So like a "timer" on a newly places block, to pick it up again like a frame when misplacing it (3 seconds should be enough)

 

Yeah but those generous pimps will give you 10 times that amount of time.

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Yeah but those generous pimps will give you 10 times that amount of time.

 

30 seconds would be good, after that or if it takes any damage at all it gets locked down.

 

Also, think you can add a option to the drop on death setting? I have no idea why the game doesn't have a "Drop nothing" option available in the vanilla game (but not default), most games like this have this setting built into the UI if you so choose to set it.

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Yeah but those generous pimps will give you 10 times that amount of time.

 

Too long, and then there is the danger of accidentally picking up blocks unintentionally.

 

The ability to pick up misplaced blocks should not turn into accidentally making holes.

 

Especially if the structural integrity could fail then.

 

A player experienced in building should realize a misplacement within a second. And then have just enough time to react to it.

 

Alternatively, the game could allow picking up the last 3 placed blocks, until the (longer) timer runs out.

This would also avoid picking up load bearing blocks unintentionally.

And the timer prevents using those blocks as temporary barriers in combat.

Edited by Damocles (see edit history)

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But do you really have to plan out the entire roof first? By time you get to the roof you know how the blocks need to be placed and you’ll be able to immediately pick up any wedges that are placed incorrectly.

 

With the hard to see corner tiles and often not knowing how they would look together, specially in creative builds, either a picking up, or much better previewing before placing would be cool.

 

Same for accidental upgrades. Few things get me raging than an accidental steel upgrade I then need to hack down for a minute. Upgrade lock for blocks or a downgrade tool. You can keep the resources :)

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But do you really have to plan out the entire roof first? By time you get to the roof you know how the blocks need to be placed and you’ll be able to immediately pick up any wedges that are placed incorrectly.

 

Flat roof using blocks not a sloped roof using wedges.

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But do you really have to plan out the entire roof first? By time you get to the roof you know how the blocks need to be placed and you’ll be able to immediately pick up any wedges that are placed incorrectly.

 

I think he means he uses the wood blocks as a permanent roof. I do too but from what you are saying we would still be able to do so and if not, using flagstone is just as easy.

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Just checked the shape menu video, as a builder I gotta say I'm excited BUT when are we gonna have the inner/inverted corner blocks? Especially the stairs block.. PLEEEEEASE!!!

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Well that would make the system more robust for designers, which I'm never opposed to. In fact that variable may already be implemented, since doors are weighted differently than other blocks.

 

But in practice, I don't see why HP and path weight wouldn't be coupled. Zombies take the path of least resistance, and generally their only mechanism to get past an obstruction on that path is to destroy it. Ergo, the amount of resistance is the hit points of the blocks involved.

 

Damage to block HP and the material the block is made of should adjust the weight of pathing but really shouldn't be the basis of it. Making block HP the basis of pathing means you have to make the HP of wildly different blocks the same and mumble something about it being better for balance when questioned about it. It's like trying to drive a car by looking at the streetlights above you, it's possible but not the best way to go about it.

 

The only difference between a door and any other block is that the HP is halved for anything tagged as a door when it comes to calculating the path.

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Hi! Sorry I'm a bit late, but is it still possible to join the discussion about frames vs grace? How about replacing all frames with generic plan blocks? I'm talking about non-tangible, semi-transparent blueprint blocks, which you can choose in the shape menu and place them on existing tangible blocks or other plan blocks, just like you would place normal blocks.

 

They cost nothing, but you can aim at them with your construction tool and upgrade them to whatever material you have loaded in it. They have no mass because they are just plans and ideas, just like that weight loss project or weight lift program you gonna start first thing tomorrow. You can build your whole base with plan blocks, walk through the walls and move your plans around until you feel it's right. Then you just start banging those blocks with your nail gun, turning them into real blocks while paying the raw material costs as if you were upgrading frames.

 

So, no frames, only one kind of placeholder blocks that fit every material. No grace period required. No real need for crafting blocks even. Possible to plan your entire house before laying a single stone.

 

Maybe players could even share their base layouts as plan block prefabs?

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Hi! Sorry I'm a bit late, but is it still possible to join the discussion about frames vs grace? How about replacing all frames with generic plan blocks? I'm talking about non-tangible, semi-transparent blueprint blocks, which you can choose in the shape menu and place them on existing tangible blocks or other plan blocks, just like you would place normal blocks.

 

They cost nothing, but you can aim at them with your construction tool and upgrade them to whatever material you have loaded in it. They have no mass because they are just plans and ideas, just like that weight loss project or weight lift program you gonna start first thing tomorrow. You can build your whole base with plan blocks, walk through the walls and move your plans around until you feel it's right. Then you just start banging those blocks with your nail gun, turning them into real blocks while paying the raw material costs as if you were upgrading frames.

 

So, no frames, only one kind of placeholder blocks that fit every material. No grace period required. No real need for crafting blocks even. Possible to plan your entire house before laying a single stone.

 

Maybe players could even share their base layouts as plan block prefabs?

 

Oooo, this sounds interesting!

 

So some kind of air block with a ghost of the shape you want to build?

 

This could be really good actually, maybe with a new architect tool thingy with the shape selector as a radial menu?

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Damage to block HP and the material the block is made of should adjust the weight of pathing but really shouldn't be the basis of it. Making block HP the basis of pathing means you have to make the HP of wildly different blocks the same and mumble something about it being better for balance when questioned about it.

 

It does? Why? Where is HP-based pathing going to break if different blocks have different HPs?

 

I simply don't follow your logic of why path weight = block HP (except for special cases like doors, as mentioned) means that wildly different blocks need the same HP. Unless you're rejecting the underlying premise of A17 pathing, that zombies 'just know' the path of least resistance... but it doesn't sound like you're making that argument.

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Alternatively, the game could allow picking up the last 3 placed blocks, until the (longer) timer runs out.

This would also avoid picking up load bearing blocks unintentionally.

And the timer prevents using those blocks as temporary barriers in combat.

 

That would also decrease the server load, timers are cheap but you can place a lot of blocks in 30 seconds.

And MP would make it even worse.

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So some kind of air block with a ghost of the shape you want to build?

 

That's exactly what I was thinking. I believe it should work quite nicely with the new shape selector.

 

Surely, there's still the issue of what happens with unbuilt plan blocks left floating around the world. Perhaps they might be automatically deleted at logout, or after some days have passed. Despawning them should be straightforward since they should not be included in any integrity calculations.

 

Also, should they be visible to all players? For sake of simplicity and streamline, I'd say yes.

 

Then there's the issue of blueprint conflicts. Can players remove each other's plans? Maybe, at least if they are on the same team, and not inside unfriendly claim zone.

 

Placing another block inside an existing plan block could work like how grass works now. If you place any block on a ground block with grass, then the grass is just removed and replaced with the placed block.

 

If the concept of blueprint blocks still seems too complicated, I believe there still might be block clutter savings to be made by replacing wood and rebar frames with single kind of generic frame blocks, that could be used to produce blocks of any suitable material.

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