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madmole

Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!  

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  1. 1. Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

    • A18 Stable is Out!
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Omg nerf demolosher before it exists. Does ANYONE here like a challenge? Madmole said block damage from zombies got nerfed in A18. You all got your way, rejoice!

 

Single block damage. The group buff might get buffed to compensate. So a single zed can pound for hours and not do much, but a cluster of 4-5+ will do insane damage. So you will need to focus on the concentrations of zombies.

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I didn't say the demolisher should be nerfed. But there should be a possible defense against this type of zombie.

 

And the question is always what is a challenge for the individual. Standing on a roof with rapid-fire weapons and wasting tons of ammunition when shooting zombies is not a challenge for me. For me, it's a challenge to build a base so that I can take a nap while the base fights the horde on its own without taking much damage and with a minimum of wasted resources.

 

So you build your super automated base/zombie meat grinder. You can go grow corn in a garden while your super base wipes out all zombie threats the game throws at you requiring zero participation in the defense of your base at this point outside of reloading turrets and repairing the odd block.

 

Ok...then what? What is the point in a game if you want a way to eradicate any possibility of risk? Is that your end game or what? I don't understand this mind set.

 

Having to stand on the roof for defense is a challenge, you may not like it but it most definitely is a challenge. Like you said if things go crazy and you miss certain shots it could mean your base being overrun. You want this no-risk, guaranteed, set it and forget safety of a sure solution that to me totally contradicts the point of a game. It sounds like you don't want a game. You want a puzzle. There is a difference.

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I didn't say the demolisher should be nerfed. But there should be a possible defense against this type of zombie.

 

Walls should work. So what if he blows up an outer wall? A proper castle has many walls and towers before the main gate is breached.

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Verily. A turing complete electrical system (see Factorio as another reference system) would make a whole new game out of this. I suspect a "complete" package is only possible in version 2 of this game, but what would be a minimal set of features to make the electricity system more powerful? Electric doors is the first step, what else?

 

* I think we can safely ignore item transportation and automatic farming as too big.

 

* The limitation that any electric device has only one input line seems to be one of the biggest limitations to make "interesting" circuits(?). Maybe it would be possible to make a circuit device that is two blocks wide and has two points to attach wires to. It would be an "or" circuit for power.

 

What else might be relatively easy to implement and "powerful" at the same time?

 

I agree that electric doors are priority number 1. However I would really not scrap the item transportation system. Man, I love hoppers, droppers and dispensers. Moving items from an inventory to another one, from a machine to the next, thus automating tedious processes. This is just awesome in my opinion.

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@madmole

Until recently, in the first comment that the alpha 18 should appear in the first half of the year, has that changed?

 

Yes June is probably not possible. More like late July early August, but in reality when its done. Its playing really good but there are major missing weapons and perks yet on some books and Attribute perks yet, so there is just no way to put it out with missing/broken books. We're making progress on the occlusion system too, and if that pans out framerate should be significantly better than 17.4 and probably no comparison to 17.

 

We probably could have hit the date if we didn't improve so many little things that come up along the way. Like make new short descriptions (a fancy rank name) and long descriptions of the perks. Books took a bit of a life on their own and grew in scope. Fixing design inconsistencies. Adding new tabs to items to show what perks or books unlock what. Those little QOL things were not planned but came up and that causes some delays. But in this case its worth the wait. A month or 6 weeks late with all these polish items and way more new weapons than we planned shipping will be worth the wait.

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I haven't even found a village yet. Would it be in the direction they were headed?

 

Unfortunately no. They spawn like random hordes in 7DTD.

 

If you get frustrated looking for a village you could type "/locate village" in chat to get the coords of the nearest.

 

I'll look at those systems in MC, but most of it sounds a little extreme for the tone of our game and what our players would expect. I would like some kind of moving parts system that doubles as elevators and moving platforms to kind of make a mining cart.

 

I'm glad you'll have a look :)

Edited by KingSlayerGM (see edit history)

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Thanks, no smoke blowing here, but 18 is the best build ever. I say that not from bullet points of added features, but from hands on experience as a gamer. I really think 18 delivers what we had hoped 17 would. Looting, quality has damage, books, random stats, perks are reorganized into more class specific roles and playstyles and there are no "must haves". Zombies do less block damage and takes a group to shred walls. Balance, balance and more balance. Lots of choices. The junk perk books are gone. New terrain textures. Mining has a nice tell where the ore is. What you see is what you get, spot ore on the surface, dig down and get after it. Optimizations and bug fixes, its really shaping up to make things right.

 

Cant W8 to try it out!

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So you build your super automated base/zombie meat grinder. You can go grow corn in a garden while your super base wipes out all zombie threats the game throws at you requiring zero participation in the defense of your base at this point outside of reloading turrets and repairing the odd block.

 

Ok...then what? What is the point in a game if you want a way to eradicate any possibility of risk? Is that your end game or what? I don't understand this mind set.

 

Then I build the next base design and the next until I run out of ideas.

 

I'm not looking for an adrenaline rush while playing. Excitement, tension or emotional roller coaster rides are not my goal.

 

In A15 I dug once passable tunnels into all biomes of the Navezgane map. Just for fun. And I have removed a mountain top to build a big mountain fortress on it. You'd probably die of boredom, but it's great fun for me.

 

So don't worry that I have no reason to continue playing after I have a base that reliably fends off zombies. That's when the game starts to get interesting for me.

 

Having to stand on the roof for defense is a challenge, you may not like it but it most definitely is a challenge. Like you said if things go crazy and you miss certain shots it could mean your base being overrun.

 

Not if you have the base well planned. Of course, if you call a wooden box surrunded by spikes a base, I'm not surprised if the base is overrun.

I've invested a lot of time in my current base, testing different designs against hordes in creative mode that were much stronger than what I usually get in the game.

 

You want this no-risk, guaranteed, set it and forget safety of a sure solution that to me totally contradicts the point of a game.

 

In my opinion, a game is not defined by risks. There are games where there are no risks and no challenges but they are still fun.

 

Taking risks is in my opinion something for people who can't plan properly or who are bored. Methodical planning can eliminate many risks in advance and if you have considered everything even all risks.

 

It sounds like you don't want a game. You want a puzzle. There is a difference.

 

A puzzle is also a type of game. A game that requires patience and logical thinking.

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For some reason the most exciting thing in A18 for me, is the random weapon stats and books. I guess I just love to loot.

 

 

@Madmole, Any plan on making more books after A18 or is this system complete in your eyes?

Also, nice work on the mining helmet, that thing was just too good.

 

They can do a lot with this system, for example I am going to assume that each tier has a stat range, with the tier below able to hit probally the mid ground or so of the tier above. They could add a virtual tier 7 to items, with the high end stats on a tier 6. I still feel players should only be able to craft up to tier 3 and you can hit that early, anything higher? Get out there and loot. Then again if stats are randomized enough, a tier 1 item could be made with god-tier stats thats near max for that item type for example, the main downside is the lack of mod slots and durability.

 

As for the Mining helm, I'm glad they made the light on it into the head light mod instead, so we can rip it out and use it on any helm we like. That mod can be kinda hard to find normally. I have a little party if my trader happens to sell one on day 1. I never did use it due to the armor it has on it, though thinking of it now it was sort of high for light armor.

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Omg nerf demolosher before it exists. Does ANYONE here like a challenge? Madmole said block damage from zombies got nerfed in A18. You all got your way, rejoice!

 

Block damage is not a problem in a17 if you kill them before they can do much to your walls, or set up a kill corridor like what is pretty popular in a17 to do since they'll generally just path right in it for you. Just a tip. Besides they could have modifiers on its block damage so it does very little to say, dirt blocks, but normal damage to wood, stone, metal etc.

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When I said its like scrap helmet, I meant to imply every single property. So it is now a tier 1 heavy armor.

 

BTW perks no longer increase armor rating, they just dictate armor crafting quality, lower stamina use and movement penalty and increase durability. Armor is better than it was in A17. This puts more emphasis on looting armor with good stats versus level up as fast as possible to get higher perks all the time.

 

Finally, My biggest issue with the armor perks in a17 was they never fixed the issue I personally had at all, which was the horrific movement and stamina penalites for using it. I suspect though the armor values for some of the armors will change a bit to compensate for the removal of that perk that adds what was it 50% to it? Probally its Armor Rating range can be between 50%(or 75%) to 150% of its normal. Just a wild guess on my part, as we haven't seen much of a18 yet.. Madmole.. video please? I am curious about the randomized stats and the new weapons and how the perk system is, as I hated how a17 is for a single player game as your virtually forced down int/str stats to be able to do anything.

 

Still pushing my general perk pool idea, where to unlock perks in it you have to have a certan amount of total stat points bought to unlock them. This way you can get stuff like miner 69'er, motherload, pack mule etc, no matter what stats you have, if you have enough of them.

Edited by Scyris (see edit history)

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Single block damage. The group buff might get buffed to compensate. So a single zed can pound for hours and not do much, but a cluster of 4-5+ will do insane damage. So you will need to focus on the concentrations of zombies.

 

improved group buff would be awesome. This sounds great, please try it :)

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Yes June is probably not possible. More like late July early August, but in reality when its done. Its playing really good but there are major missing weapons and perks yet on some books and Attribute perks yet, so there is just no way to put it out with missing/broken books. We're making progress on the occlusion system too, and if that pans out framerate should be significantly better than 17.4 and probably no comparison to 17.

 

We probably could have hit the date if we didn't improve so many little things that come up along the way. Like make new short descriptions (a fancy rank name) and long descriptions of the perks. Books took a bit of a life on their own and grew in scope. Fixing design inconsistencies. Adding new tabs to items to show what perks or books unlock what. Those little QOL things were not planned but came up and that causes some delays. But in this case its worth the wait. A month or 6 weeks late with all these polish items and way more new weapons than we planned shipping will be worth the wait.

 

Thanks Joel, I'm really looking forward to the release of the A18. I'm sure it will be great. :smile-new:

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Walls should work. So what if he blows up an outer wall? A proper castle has many walls and towers before the main gate is breached.

 

Except with the wonky way spawning works they end up inside your base half the time when building larger bases like that. I tried building a compound with some friends and it wasn't even that large inside with most of the size being related to defenses on the outside, but it was pointless as the game decided half of the bloodmoon zombies should spawn inside the inner walls. That logic would work if the game you're developing actually followed it.

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Then I build the next base design and the next until I run out of ideas.

 

I'm not looking for an adrenaline rush while playing. Excitement, tension or emotional roller coaster rides are not my goal.

 

In A15 I dug once passable tunnels into all biomes of the Navezgane map. Just for fun. And I have removed a mountain top to build a big mountain fortress on it. You'd probably die of boredom, but it's great fun for me.

 

So don't worry that I have no reason to continue playing after I have a base that reliably fends off zombies. That's when the game starts to get interesting for me.

 

 

 

Not if you have the base well planned. Of course, if you call a wooden box surrunded by spikes a base, I'm not surprised if the base is overrun.

I've invested a lot of time in my current base, testing different designs against hordes in creative mode that were much stronger than what I usually get in the game.

 

 

 

In my opinion, a game is not defined by risks. There are games where there are no risks and no challenges but they are still fun.

 

Taking risks is in my opinion something for people who can't plan properly or who are bored. Methodical planning can eliminate many risks in advance and if you have considered everything even all risks.

 

 

 

A puzzle is also a type of game. A game that requires patience and logical thinking.

 

The takeaway from this is that everyone has fun in their own fashion and nobody should dictate to anyone else how they have their own brand of fun. With all fun being equally worthy it then comes down to ease of adaptation and it is infinitely easier to mod out stuff than it is to mod stuff in.

 

Ergo...Your original solution to simply mod it out immediately is your best one and you can stop arguing against the inclusion of any special zombie that messes with your particular brand of fun. I know you meant it as some sort of threat but modding is never a threat. It's a feature.

 

So let's get that explosive monster into the game and let him cause his mayhem and for those who don't like it they can...<gasp>...mod him out immediately.

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I agree that electric doors are priority number 1. However I would really not scrap the item transportation system. Man, I love hoppers, droppers and dispensers. Moving items from an inventory to another one, from a machine to the next, thus automating tedious processes. This is just awesome in my opinion.

 

I agree that would be awesome but also almost certainly too big to implement before release.

 

What use is it to ask for features you know they can't commit to and then they implement a new car or gun instead? Isn't it better to ask for the stuff you might really get?

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Walls should work. So what if he blows up an outer wall? A proper castle has many walls and towers before the main gate is breached.

 

I was assuming the block damage and the AI from A17 because I have no information on how this changes with A18.

 

In A17 I have a funnel base where I direct the zombies into a corridor full of blade traps, electric fences and arrow traps. The dart traps are protected by arrow slits and the posts of the electric fences are also behind walls.

 

This defense is very efficient and can even withstand a gamestage 900 Horde without taking major damage. I haven't had any damage from exploding cops since they are killed so quickly that they can't explode. A zombie that explodes, no matter what you do, would destroy all traps in no time.

 

A wall doesn't kill a zombie. My killer corridor, on the other hand, kills a whole horde without wasting valuable ammo.

Edited by RipClaw (see edit history)

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Except with the wonky way spawning works they end up inside your base half the time when building larger bases like that. I tried building a compound with some friends and it wasn't even that large inside with most of the size being related to defenses on the outside, but it was pointless as the game decided half of the bloodmoon zombies should spawn inside the inner walls. That logic would work if the game you're developing actually followed it.

 

Please define "not that big". The zombies spawn in close to the edge of the rendered chunk which means that your base must have been huge. Building a compound so large that it encompasses every possible spawn point and then complaining that they spawn inside isn't fair. If you want to remove the bloodmoon horde mechanic from the game it is as easy as selecting it on the main menu. No need to to try and build it out of existence. You can easily build multiple layers of walls within the radius that the bloodmoon horde spawns.

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Guest Rassilon
Yes June is probably not possible. More like late July early August, but in reality when its done. Its playing really good but there are major missing weapons and perks yet on some books and Attribute perks yet, so there is just no way to put it out with missing/broken books. We're making progress on the occlusion system too, and if that pans out framerate should be significantly better than 17.4 and probably no comparison to 17.

 

We probably could have hit the date if we didn't improve so many little things that come up along the way. Like make new short descriptions (a fancy rank name) and long descriptions of the perks. Books took a bit of a life on their own and grew in scope. Fixing design inconsistencies. Adding new tabs to items to show what perks or books unlock what. Those little QOL things were not planned but came up and that causes some delays. But in this case its worth the wait. A month or 6 weeks late with all these polish items and way more new weapons than we planned shipping will be worth the wait.

 

I was pretty bummed with the Delay of A17 and its release form, but this time Im really content with the Delay. Be it Fall or even Winter, that content you showed us is allready worth the wait and if that time helps you to iron bugs and balance problems out, so be it.

 

What i can tell so far is that A18 will be an amazing step forward with lots of content and reasons to explore and loot again, wich A17 was very lacking of.

 

 

One thing: Madmole, you said in an earlier statement that Random Stats on Weapon Mods are not planned and maybe comming very late, if at all.

While i am allready satisfied with rnd Stats on Weapons/Items, i really cross fingers that maybe you will come to that A19+, as it will be a huge additional boost of Motivator, finding THAT "perfect" Mod to THAT "perfect" Item. You keep players really happy, motivated and busy to fullify their wishes for the best gear.

 

Thank you for returning to the Forum and sharing again with us. Missed you, big guy.

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So let's get that explosive monster into the game and let him cause his mayhem and for those who don't like it they can...<gasp>...mod him out immediately.

 

I don't mind him coming into the game. But like I said, if I don't have a way to kill him without him exploding, I will remove him from the game. A corresponding modlet should only be a few lines long if you are familiar with xpath.

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Please define "not that big". The zombies spawn in close to the edge of the rendered chunk which means that your base must have been huge. Building a compound so large that it encompasses every possible spawn point and then complaining that they spawn inside isn't fair. If you want to remove the bloodmoon horde mechanic from the game it is as easy as selecting it on the main menu. No need to to try and build it out of existence. You can easily build multiple layers of walls within the radius that the bloodmoon horde spawns.

 

A "set active chunk area range" option would be cool for us non potato people. 🥔

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There are pockets you can craft for clothing to lighten the load, plus armor perks. Crafting is now governed by the governing skill not INT. The auger and chainsaw will provide ample resources for non perked characters. Anyone can craft vehicles, only grease monkeys can craft parts. Traders now deal in vehicle parts and whole vehicles. With no perks its something like 5k, 12k, 30k, 60k, 100k. If you buy the parts its cheaper to build your own.

 

It would be pretty cool if the vehicles sold at the trader had a chance of coming with increased storage, speed, gas mileage. So, while you can craft one with baseline stats, the trader offers the chance for a vehcile with nice upgrades.

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I don't mind him coming into the game. But like I said, if I don't have a way to kill him without him exploding, I will remove him from the game. A corresponding modlet should only be a few lines long if you are familiar with xpath.

 

Perfect. Everyone is happy. :)

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Oooh!

 

Are we getting vehicle mods in A18? Stuff like:

 

- Speed Boost

- Fuel Efficiency

- Mufflers (stealth)

- Cargo

- Mounted Spikes

- Explosive Mod -- Big explosion on vehicle death

- Low Gearing Mod -- Better hill climbing

- Overdrive Mod -- Damages vehicle for large speed boost

- Paint -- Just like dye

 

I know some were present in A17. AFAIK, they mostly weren't implemented (I may be wrong). Either way, I'm excited for vehicle mods.

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