Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[Poutre]

No plans for infinite worlds or anything larger than 16k. Gas needs to be more scarce so if you want to drive everywhere you will probably be actively looking for gas like you for ammo and ammo resources. I honestly don't see the value in super huge worlds because as it stands one city out lives my entire play session for looting. Why would I travel to another city when there is 75 real time hours of looting right here.

 

 

Would be nice to have a chance of finding huge stacks of gas randomly. right now you can predict how much you'll find at gas station since it always contains the same amount.

 

You need the gas loot to be more diverse when it comes to amounts you find.

[ecv]

No plans for infinite worlds or anything larger than 16k. Gas needs to be more scarce so if you want to drive everywhere you will probably be actively looking for gas like you for ammo and ammo resources. I honestly don't see the value in super huge worlds because as it stands one city out lives my entire play session for looting. Why would I travel to another city when there is 75 real time hours of looting right here.

Have you ever tried an eight people co-op game?

With eight players having at it, that city is a wreck after one or two rl day. And on day two half those players have to work (rl) while the other half is going to work on the next city. They come back for an hour of after work relaxation only to find all interesting poi already patched, pathed and looted.

 

So the impulse is to get to another city to have some fresh poi feeling. After a rl week that map is ruined. Can't wipe every week as it's hard to coordinate for eight players to be there for reset-day:)

 

Then there's the added gamestage. A new player can not loot a city with higher exp players in them. Radiated everywhere in the first game week. Nobody can handle those when new to the world. So they too need a starter city. There's always a few people power levelling, new players need to stay far away from them. Bigger maps are perfect for longer term worlds

 

a public eight player server will get at least five fresh players every day and a few strays who go away after dying once. They'll do a lot of damage.

 

I suppose most of that can be balanced.

 

Can you make the size optional? In five years we can run that 16kb map on our smartphone and the desktop will have no trouble with a 50k world, what, with 64 core 6GHz computers and a multicore entry level gtx dual 6080... Would be sad if the engine would clamp them to yesteryear. Right now, the server will not start with a 20k+ map

 

Damn, why do I always end up with walls of text

[n2n1]

//// I wouldn't want to walk 50 miles to the desert to find aloe.

This is not a RWG-generation problem! If you want the biomes may change each step!

It's about the size of world.

On the contrary, the journey to find the desert can be fun and interesting and motivate the player. Otherwise, you need to remove all the transport - it is not needed in this miserable piece of 8x8 meters.

 

Why do you add these absurdities. You've already explained everything when you said about the technical side of the problem. People feel like you're inventing nonexistent causes....

It's not necessary... it's offensive.

[Aldranon]

This is not a RWG-generation problem. If you want the biomes may change each step.

It's about the size of the world.

On the contrary, the journey to find the desert can be fun and interesting and motivate the player. Otherwise, you need to remove all the transport - it is not needed in this miserable piece of 8x8 meters.

 

There is the big truth: That everyplace is basically the same place right now.

 

With the exception of novel skyscrapers/HQ's/Quest POI's, traveling long distances is not remotely necessary.

[n2n1]

///

Damn, why do I always end up with walls of text

.....hmmm...This means that for you it is really important and so you are willing to spend time on something that would speak out!

[Damocles]

The best solution currently is to use a custom map with several obstacles along the paths (mainly large bodies of water).

That increases the travel times a lot, traversing the map, compared to a relatively unobstructed map.

 

For a higher player count, its best to just increase the density and size of settlements.

 

In the end 16k means around 256 square kilometers or around 100 square miles of playfield.

(12k around 144 square kilometers, also more than enough actually)

 

With a smart topological structure of the map, there is a long way to go already, even for large servers.

 

Going higher than 16k would require a different setup of the world (splitting it into segments), that adds more complexity, and I can see why they dont want to do that for those few use-cases.

[The Gronk]

Unfortunately it comes with a lot more data to manage and time to generate, and undesirable game play. I wouldn't want to walk 50 miles to the desert to find aloe.

 

The greatest thing about my 17.3 game was reading "Distance to Trader : 11.6km". That's a two day mission. I'm weird like that though.

[The Gronk]

Going higher than 16k would require a different setup of the world (splitting it into segments), that adds more complexity, and I can see why they dont want to do that for those few use-cases.

 

We used to have larger worlds, there was even a system implemented to get around a "shakey-hands" bug that happened far from the centre of the map.

 

That was cut short when the generation system was changed to use splatmaps instead of a fully procedural world.

 

I'd say 16k should be the minimum, even on a SP game.

[madmole]

Would be nice to have a chance of finding huge stacks of gas randomly. right now you can predict how much you'll find at gas station since it always contains the same amount.

 

You need the gas loot to be more diverse when it comes to amounts you find.

 

That isn't true at all, but I just nerfed it from 50-500 to 1-150.

[Damocles]

We used to have larger worlds, there was even a system implemented to get around a "shakey-hands" bug that happened far from the centre of the map.

 

That was cut short when the generation system was changed to use splatmaps instead of a fully procedural world.

 

I'd say 16k should be the minimum, even on a SP game.

 

Example of what I mean: (quickly made), a 12 k map, with around 8200 POIs.

 

Should be plenty to explore, while still being quite managable in file size.

 

The large bodies of water increase travel times, so the map cant be passed that quickly.

 

[madmole]

Have you ever tried an eight people co-op game?

With eight players having at it, that city is a wreck after one or two rl day. And on day two half those players have to work (rl) while the other half is going to work on the next city. They come back for an hour of after work relaxation only to find all interesting poi already patched, pathed and looted.

 

So the impulse is to get to another city to have some fresh poi feeling. After a rl week that map is ruined. Can't wipe every week as it's hard to coordinate for eight players to be there for reset-day:)

 

Then there's the added gamestage. A new player can not loot a city with higher exp players in them. Radiated everywhere in the first game week. Nobody can handle those when new to the world. So they too need a starter city. There's always a few people power levelling, new players need to stay far away from them. Bigger maps are perfect for longer term worlds

 

a public eight player server will get at least five fresh players every day and a few strays who go away after dying once. They'll do a lot of damage.

 

I suppose most of that can be balanced.

 

Can you make the size optional? In five years we can run that 16kb map on our smartphone and the desktop will have no trouble with a 50k world, what, with 64 core 6GHz computers and a multicore entry level gtx dual 6080... Would be sad if the engine would clamp them to yesteryear. Right now, the server will not start with a 20k+ map

 

Damn, why do I always end up with walls of text

Completely irrelevant when you can do a quest and the POI is reset and chock full of loot for you. Adding a bigger world doesn't really encourage interaction between players which iMO is interesting. It doesn't really solve anything in an elegant way. We'll eventually get some kind of poi reset function that restores pois that a server can turn on for your scenario.

[n2n1]

//// Until then, Get off your ass and carve your own cave with a pickaxe

///// I wouldn't want to walk 50 miles to the desert to find aloe.

anyway, how about you get off your ass and take a walk to find yourself a Aloe?

[unholyjoe]

Completely irrelevant when you can do a quest and the POI is reset and chock full of loot for you. Adding a bigger world doesn't really encourage interaction between players which iMO is interesting. It doesn't really solve anything in an elegant way. We'll eventually get some kind of poi reset function that restores pois that a server can turn on for your scenario.

 

Modern day "Supply and Demand"!

 

you supply a bigger map and they demand more and faster vehicles to get across the bigger map... rinse and repeat because the faster vehicles shrink the map.

[Tin]

Modern day "Supply and Demand"!

 

you supply a bigger map and they demand more and faster vehicles to get across the bigger map... rinse and repeat because the faster vehicles shrink the map.

 

Remove vehicles for the win! well at least the gyro-copter..

Or just make mountains/cliff/canyons rougher, to go off-road and over, with vehicles, so they need to go around them mostly instead.

[beerfly]

Modern day "Supply and Demand"!

 

you supply a bigger map and they demand more and faster vehicles to get across the bigger map... rinse and repeat because the faster vehicles shrink the map.

 

First level I started on this game was RWG 16x16 back then , a10 or ♥♥♥♥. I had no idea how big it is and because of my part time stupidity, I refused to build a base, and became nomad. It was ♥♥♥♥ing great. (smell was big part of that back then cuz running in the night with meat was goood). I know what these guys mean, they love exploring and less repetitiveness. But, even Space have its own limits. Good point Joe.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Remove vehicles for the win! well at least the gyro-copter..

Or just make mountains/cliff/canyons rougher, to go off-road and over, with vehicles, so they need to go around them mostly instead.

 

Or have areas of the map that you actually have to manipulate (dig, build, rebuild, repair, do a cave through a mountain) to have access to another part of the map. In some sort of quest story, for a given time.

[Tin]

Or have areas of the map that you actually have to manipulate (dig, build, rebuild, repair, do a cave through a mountain) to have access to another part of the map. In some sort of quest story for a given time.

 

That would be cool as well!

[n2n1]

@MM

I'm curious. If you were offered to take a 3d-model (of proper quality and appropriate to the theme of the game) complete with sources materials, which made the modder. For free and with permission to do anything with it.

Would you take it for 7dtd if you liked it?

 

Or is there some reason why you won't do it?

[Grue]

but, but, BEER is Nectar of the Gods!

 

 

Probably an oversight, but the guy who left had beer as some god tier item with a bunch of beer perks and bs I nuked.

 

I would say that the value of a good beer or even some raw whiskey (grain alcohol) would be at a premium during the apocalypse.

 

Especially if you could age it properly into a nice scotch. Seems like what the economy needs is some trade goods to sink extra resources and provide some occupation for end game.

[beerfly]

@MM

 

Or is there some reason why you won't do it?

 

They have their own plans.

Workshop is on its way and what you guys do, can be ingame some day. So keep developing it and some day it could be anywhere.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

I would say that the value of a good beer ....

 

..depends by the value of the moment when you have it. Cheers Grue.

[Noctoras]

edited :-)

[n2n1]

They have their own plans.

Workshop is on its way and what you guys do, can be ingame some day. So keep developing it and some day it could be anywhere.

 

I mean, the kind of things they suit (or need) right now.

[Thecolours]

That isn't true at all, but I just nerfed it from 50-500 to 1-150.

 

What about the over abundance of gas barrels in the shanty towns?

[beerfly]

I mean, the kind of things they suit (or need) right now.

 

They have their plans and adding a content from anyone just like that is not gonna work.

 

Full mod support, future steam workshop is what you need.

[bayaholic]

What about the over abundance of gas barrels in the shanty towns?

 

You must really like the bicycle. Soon enough you will really have to mine for shale.

[Dimpy]

What kinds of advantages do the fist-based melee weapons give, and how is that related to fortitude? Is there some kind of defensive bonus, lower interrupt chance, or is it just that fortitude players can risk getting up-close-and-personal because they are so tanky?