Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[Survager]

JOEL,

Now in Alpha 17, wolves and bears attack only deer.

 

You can change this in 18 alpha to:

Bear attacked wolf, deer, boar, chicken and rabbit

Wolf attacked a deer, a boar, a chicken and a rabbit, but ran away from a bear

Wild wolf attacked a bear, a boar, a chicken and a rabbit, but ran away from a zombie bear

 

and, may be other logic?

[madmole]

Joel, but if the item disappears from the bag only after half an hour of real time ... if no one took the bag (whether it is a friend or an enemy)? ) It looks like it will work everywhere)

 

And if in the settings it is that the items from the belt do not fall, then the item that is on the belt will be climbed immediately, and the one that is in the bag in an hour. If player want the he is not to lose the belt, he will lose two items at once. The best item from a belt and the best item from a backpack.

 

I missed that detail. I still see more value in losing your stuff forever. What good Samaritan in the wasteland is returning your goods to a trader lol. Rebuilding can be a good thing. I must have died 4 or 5 times in Conan before making it to the river and didn't know they had map markers for my stuff or what I was doing. I didn't mind getting new gear. I died again and it was on a mountain cliff or something later and lost significant gear but whatever, sometimes if you just focus on new stuff in stead of what you lost you end up with better gear before you know it anyway.

[madmole]

Oh man...actually thought that was a different game. Looks flippin fantastic!

 

How was there never a spear before now? That is going to be my go to starter weapon if I can find matching loincloth.

 

We didn't have arrow stick code, didn't have a way to throw ammo, etc. It still takes some new code to support. The main reason was unity didn't have texture streaming so we couldn't ever unload any textures or downsize ones that you aren't looking at.

[rdunham3]

True, however I feel there's a balance between the game actively trying to kill you at every turn and it being a challenge. I did find A17.1 (the last Alpha I played before my screen was damaged and now I'm typing this on half of it) very hard and at night found myself too scared to do anything. I open a container after 10pm and I'm dead in minutes. I dig a hole and I'm dead. So basically the only way for me to stay alive was to wait and wait and wait until dawn. Not very fun, even though I kinda loved the realism and scariness of it.

 

Still, the zombies were far too sensitive to sounds that I was making.

If the zombie-heard-a-sound mechanic was changed from GPS'ing to the exact block the sound was heard at to simply wandering towards that direction, but losing interest after a few seconds if no other sound was detected, it would solve most of this.

I don't know if the zombie pathing can be told to move like that, currently, but if it can...quick easy fix to the shambling bunker-busting homing missiles.

[madmole]

Those new screenshots look excellent. Any chance for new plant and grass models the world is looking great but the plants are really sticking out now and not in a good way @madmole

 

Maybe down the road a bit.

[Roland]

New spear and desert terrain textures:

https://twitter.com/joelhuenink/status/1128410137704538112/photo/1

 

 

Now THAT's the way "sharp sticks" were meant to be part of this game!!!

[madmole]

Is it possible to assume this:

level 1 - stone spear

level 2 - iron spear

level 3 - steel spear

:smile-new:

 

Yes.

[madmole]

Oh ok. It very well may have been that as I could not see the ground well on the videos. They were usually showing the destruction in large corn fields.

So the complaints about it were just that they got trampled? Why didn’t players just protect their crops? It’s not like that wouldn’t be fun. Not seeing the problem.

 

It was a bit of a performance issue having all entities capable of destroying blocks. Chunk rebuild calls in the cornfields were adding up so we disabled it. With some rules where only zeds and large animals do it, it might not be too bad, and not to the dead crops.

[madmole]

Joel, always wanted to know who's doing the biomes sun lighting spectrum?

It's You?

 

Thats the one art system I'm still author of, otherwise Justin, Yongha, Ryan, and Joey are handling all the art. I'm doing game balance and system design and a bit of technical art and animation work. But the latter is about 5% of my time at most. I'm sure Justin will take over in time lol.

[AtomicUs5000]

It was a bit of a performance issue having all entities capable of destroying blocks. Chunk rebuild calls in the cornfields were adding up so we disabled it. With some rules where only zeds and large animals do it, it might not be too bad, and not to the dead crops.

I see... there were other reasons. I was focusing on gripes about it.

[ZombieHorde]

Yeah we'll see. I do want to make generic mud and blood covered walking dead like zombies for the hordes. Special ones you never see, and leave the distinguished ones out of horde night. I always felt it was immersion breaking to see cheerleaders and football players in hordes just for the sake of variety. In the walking dead no one zombie stands out, they are all kind of the same and that is how I want our hordes to be. We could save memory and performance doing this as we could instantiate more of the same model.

 

Not like this reference, but only in the sense that no one zombie stands out much different than the others:

https://www.marxist.com/images/cache/53f8976f87b65dc011f5deee844b6eb1_w700_h561.jpg

 

At a minimum maybe we will just cover the existing zeds in more dirt and blood and desaturate their clothing further. But I'd rather make some special blood moon zeds for this, like these are the crazy ones that only come out once a week on blood moons, and that explains their ability to know where players are.

 

In regards to special zombies and bandits (the things newbies might never see if they are only end-game types), maybe make them not interested in you (unless you attack them) until some event later on.

 

I always imagined the bandits working for the Duke. When you start the game you are small-fry and completely uninteresting. Start causing trouble, getting more powerful and knowledgeable and being a threat to the Duke and he starts sending his bandits to warn you off.

 

Continue progressing and then you find your base raided, cars destroyed and a note saying "From the Duke. Quit now!" or some such thing and then they can start hunting you after level 50 or so.

 

But it would be a shame for newbies not to see all the dynamics in the game and want to experience them.

[ZombieHorde]

Or make seed crafting schematic find only. Its the ability to craft seeds that makes it OP too fast. If you only had corn but not potatoes your stew making ability would be limited and you'd need to find that potato schematic before you had mega farming potential.

 

Or just make seeds never craftable, and rare loot and high priced at traders. Each one you find is a big deal because you can feed a bit better.

 

YES! On the list of laws the duke has decreed, no one shall pluck his potatoes or corn. Everyone must buy the seeds. And therefore it be a choice if you choose to steel his food, your notoriety goes up. If you buy things it's okay.

[Syrex]

@Madmole

 

been away for a bit, movin. just got back in internet land and started reading your comments from where I left off. Few things I noticed and wanted to comment on / question:

 

1) I see you tried "Conan Exiles", have you tried "Subsistence"? If you haven't its worth a look. Especially with upcoming bandits concept/ideas.

 

2) Specializations are great, provided they dont become too specialized where "metas" come in to play. Especially when lotsa of ability/perks come in to play (not as many as Path of Exile, but still)

 

3) The turrets sound like that which is in The Division (1&2) -- i'm sure there's other games but the descriptions were sounding more in line the div1/2

[ZombieHorde]

I wish we could support more than one bedroll for these situations.

 

Support them, but at a cost. "Spawn on closest bedroom = -10 wellness"/"Spawn on bedroll 2 = -25 wellness"

[AtomicUs5000]

YES! On the list of laws the duke has decreed, no one shall pluck his potatoes or corn. Everyone must buy the seeds. And therefore it be a choice if you choose to steel his food, your notoriety goes up. If you buy things it's okay.

Could also turn that idea around. You get seeds at the cost of having to supply some quota of harvested crops or face bandit consequences.

[caatalyst]

I think it's time for some video of alpha 18...

[ZombieHorde]

Regarding farming, I believe it can’t be balanced by just changing some numbers. The math doesn’t work out.

 

Under the current system, crops grow exponentially. That’s in opposition to a progressive learning curve, where things start easier and get harder over time. No matter how you adjust that exponential curve, it’s going to be too hard for players at the low end of the curve or too easy for players at the high end of the curve. You'll never find values for vegetables per stew or yield per plant that accommodate both ends of the spectrum.

 

Now, you can dismiss the problem by concluding that you shouldn't bother fixing it because food isn't a big part of the game, or that experienced players are just too good to be worth balancing the game for them. But I would point out that other parts of the game do have a balanced progression curve, namely the game stage and heat systems. These systems already accommodate all kinds of players well, from the 10 hour player to the 1,000 hour player, by scaling the zombie threat based on how successful you’ve been.

 

Farming could draw inspiration from these systems to have its own progression curve. What's critical is that there be some mechanism whereby the more plants on your farm, the more challenge you're given. This could take many forms. I would favor a system directly analogous to the above, where rabbits and deer attack your crops, and their number and frequency is related to the number of plants making 'heat' in a chunk.

 

Most of the pieces for that, both art and code, you already have. And that's good in part because it means there's gameplay there you already have, too. I.e. there would already be different ways to counter animals attacking your crops. Whereas if crops randomly die for no reason, what does the player do about these random failures? Buy a perk? Engage in some new farm-specific gameplay you have to code? Nah. Just lean on the tower defense, traps, gunplay etc. you already have.

 

But again, I'm not attached to animals eating crops in particular. I'm just looking for some way that a bigger farm is harder than a smaller farm.

 

This is exactly why I would propose to have more dynamics with the Duke and bandits. Surviving should be a challenge across the game, and the offer of several game play styles. Do you want a fortress base? To be a cave dweller? A mountaineer? To be a nomad? To advance and take on the Duke? I'd love to see benefits and cons to each of these.

 

Gardening could range from hard to get started, forcing you to scavenge, to having enough knowledge and equipment to farm but once it gets established, you start becoming a threat to the Duke who leaves notices for you to find about why he's unhappy with you.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Could also turn that idea around. You get seeds at the cost of having to supply some quota of harvested crops or face bandit consequences.

 

Love that idea, too. So far the Duke and his tyrannical nature hasn't been seen in the game, and to bring the game together, it's a must.

[Crater Creator]

Yeah we'll see. I do want to make generic mud and blood covered walking dead like zombies for the hordes. Special ones you never see, and leave the distinguished ones out of horde night. I always felt it was immersion breaking to see cheerleaders and football players in hordes just for the sake of variety. In the walking dead no one zombie stands out, they are all kind of the same and that is how I want our hordes to be. We could save memory and performance doing this as we could instantiate more of the same model.

 

Not like this reference, but only in the sense that no one zombie stands out much different than the others:

https://www.marxist.com/images/cache/53f8976f87b65dc011f5deee844b6eb1_w700_h561.jpg

 

At a minimum maybe we will just cover the existing zeds in more dirt and blood and desaturate their clothing further. But I'd rather make some special blood moon zeds for this, like these are the crazy ones that only come out once a week on blood moons, and that explains their ability to know where players are.

 

I get what you’re saying, and I can see that working. Conceptually, I would think of it as starting with this generic indistinct zombie, and then layering on enough differences onto each instance so they're not clones. Maybe one has a boot on one foot, the next has the tattered remains of a skirt, the next a busted up face... I don't mind iconic archetypes like cheerleaders, so much as I mind that it's always THE cheerleader, the exact same one every time, instead of A cheerleader.

 

With that said, I would prefer to keep a visual language for abilities, where you can tell that this guy is going to jump high, this guy is going to vomit, this guy is going to dig, based on that particular zombie’s appearance.

[Crater Creator]

If we limited stack size to 3 food items per slot, then people wouldn't be taking 50 cornbread and being good to go on a quest. They might actualy make more advanced foods because of limited carry space. I'm not talking about resources like raw corn and potatoes or meat, but cooked prepared foods and bandages need their stack sizes cut dramatically.

 

If you go that direction, perhaps you’d want to separate stack size in the player’s inventory from stack size in storage, so your kitchen isn't crates stacked from floor to ceiling.

[DUST2DEATH]

New spear and desert terrain textures:

https://twitter.com/joelhuenink/status/1128410137704538112/photo/1

 

 

[ZombieHorde]

If the zombie-heard-a-sound mechanic was changed from GPS'ing to the exact block the sound was heard at to simply wandering towards that direction, but losing interest after a few seconds if no other sound was detected, it would solve most of this.

I don't know if the zombie pathing can be told to move like that, currently, but if it can...quick easy fix to the shambling bunker-busting homing missiles.

 

THIS ^

[Crater Creator]

Regarding farming, we're doing this for A18. Baby steps and balance.

...

 

Add zombie and stag trampling but not players trampling.

 

Trampling might not make it in, need programmers for that.

 

Neat! Would animals path towards plants, specifically, or just trample them incidentally? If they don’t mill around the garden, I fear it wouldn’t be clear why your plants were destroyed, after the animal's moved on.

 

Also, I think it’d be most interesting, and give better performance, to put this behavior just on animals. Zombies do enough different things already.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Maybe a "bug infestation" statistic could be employed, that makes larger mono-type cropfields have plants dying off ("bug infested - too many crops nearby")

The player must spread the crops out further apart, else the chance to have bugs taking over the plants increases.

 

Could be solved by some kind of distance-heatmap, thus spreading out the farming area.

And in turn making the farms harder to defend from other foes.

 

Hmm. That would be interesting, if a blight or similar wipes out ALL crops of one type. Then you might still bring in 500 potatoes, but no corn. So no more mass production of stew for you: you’re reduced to baked potatoes until you can ramp up corn production again. That would affect a big farm more than a small farm... I think I like this idea!

[ZombieHorde]

Thats the one art system I'm still author of, otherwise Justin, Yongha, Ryan, and Joey are handling all the art. I'm doing game balance and system design and a bit of technical art and animation work. But the latter is about 5% of my time at most. I'm sure Justin will take over in time lol.

 

I believe that not everyone is closeby, right? Some are even in another city or country? The wonders of the digital age! Is this true for TFP's? How far apart are the programmers from each other? I'd have to think they were at least quite close?

[Crater Creator]

How is it valid, when new players gets buffed with the newbie coat that protects you from temperature?

edit: About the seasons..

 

I was referring to Aerial’s (and other’s) idea of growing seasons. The problem being, how to balance it for everyone, if one player joins when crops grow, while another player joins when they don’t. Yeah, the Blood Moon presents the same problem... but that doesn't mean we should introduce more balance problems.

[Crater Creator]

New spear and desert terrain textures:

https://twitter.com/joelhuenink/status/1128410137704538112/photo/1

 

 

Oh, man! I didn’t think it was possible, but once again it looks like a different game.

 

It’s great that you can throw and retrieve the spear. But the one thing I really want in a spear is the ability to poke through iron bars and/or similar blocks. Not only would it be cool in an up-close-and-personal, active engagement way, it'd actually be more risky than hanging back and shooting through the bars, since if they break through they're right in your face already.