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Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!  

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  1. 1. Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

    • A18 Stable is Out!
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I have no idea what you're talking about. Horde night in A17 is far, far less "optional" than it was in A16.

 

In A16 you could just go underground and avoid the horde altogether. (I did this pretty consistently.) Now that zombies can dig, you can't do that any more. You have to fight the horde.

 

Yes, there are ways to build a horde base that cheeses the AI and makes fighting the horde much easier. But that existed in A16 too, and it's not any easier in A17 (different sure, but not easier).

 

Also - not directed at you - but I feel the people who are complaining that zombies are XP farms, have too short memories to remember that zombies in A16 and earlier were mainly loot farms. Personally I think removing zombie loot in A17 was a step in the right direction.

 

Now, I do believe the game is still unbalanced, and that the XP from zombie kills still needs to be nerfed somewhat (yes, in A17.2 too, though it was worse in earlier alphas). But that doesn't mean the game is moving in the wrong direction.

 

Sorry for the long post. Don't worry I am not bashing A17 or anything. As I say in my A17 feedback posts, for me, it had both positive changes and negative changes, with flaws carrying over from previous versions (it's an alpha after all). This belongs to the 3rd category. (You could still hide underground in .0 if you went deep enough, haven't tried it in .2 don't think that changed since .0).

 

Of course it was optional in A16 too, god knows how many underground debates we had here and vehicles were still a thing after all (I think the only time when it wasn't optional was before they increased the voxel vertical space and zombies could also somewhat dig, just don't remember if blood moons had been implemented then).

 

Again in A17 you don't have to fight the horde - you really don't, if you can just sprint a little with the A17 player increased speed and get away. I didn't say a word because they said they will add more speed settings which I thought would alleviate this problem, but apparently now there is a speed bug which I hope will finally solve it when it's fixed.

 

I don't tend to complain about problems which are obviously temporary, but about what seem to be design decisions. For example the AI will be further refined and it's not something fixed on the spot, so there is no point in complaining about it, other than giving some feedback and be done with it. The horde being optional unfortunately seems like a design decision, since there are always ways to get away and not fight, like vehicles, which don't have any real cons or cost.

 

Removing zombie loot was definitely a step in the right direction. And making them not worth farming for XP, will also be one, imo. Zombies were XP farms in A16 only after zombie kill XP was added. Before that abomination was added, which turned the zombie apocalypse in a human apocalypse for zombies, you only gained weapon skills when you hit them, which was great, because it was rewarding, but not enough to make you actively hunt them.

 

Finally, people that are complaining about zombies being XP farms particularly in A17 don't always have such short memories. Even after zombie kill XP was added in A16 and zombies became XP farms, skills were compartmentalized and the game still pushed you towards different activities, as it was still not really worth to throw 100 points in e.g. mining without actually mining. This, with A17 changed, and with most recipes being tied to perks now and zombie kill XP enabling you to max anything (became more globally useful), it is no wonder people started complaining about having to grind zombies. Thankfully MM said they will balance XP sources further, and revamp some recipes so we can only wait and see.

 

I see players on servers log off ALL the time when bloodmoon starts. You'll never prevent that from happening. So wishfull thinking, only with SP you already have to face bloodmoon.

 

Gawd, this again! Ok.

 

First of all they recently added an option for blood moons. So balancing the game according to players that are "peculiar enough" to not choose a server without blood moons and STILL log out during blood moons is -guess what-, at best.

 

You can avoid events by logging out in countless co-op games. Do you know what developers do about it? Send goons to your house to rough you up if you log out? They do nothing of course - because they are co-op games. Should the devs make something optional for people while playing the game, because people can... stop playing the game and avoid it? And when you think that these people log out during an already optional thing, feel free to draw your own conclusions.

 

What you say reminds me of gazz - "we won't add POI events/exclusive loot because the game is voxel and players in MP servers may have destroyed the POIs". To balance the game for every single MP scenario, no matter how improbable it is, is madness imo. It is just not worth the sacrifice to give up things for that small of a probability. Except if you find a better solution to go about it.

Edited by RestInPieces (see edit history)

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...just saying... Damn.

 

This is what a17 modding can do. (See? On topic.)

 

Oh my god ... what mod is that????? Released or in development?

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Probably why it's a mod and not vanilla. Couple that with the medieval mod or fantasy mod and you have a whole NEW game.

 

Post was intended to celebrate the awesomeness of 7days modability, no need to bunch your underwear that tightly.

 

You know, this post (and I know, I'm dealing with older posts from yesterday ... sue me) kind of encapsulates why we are all driving Mad Mole and crew nuts. :) None of us want exactly the same thing.

 

But, it also demonstrates the versatility of the game in its modded versions. Because the possibilities are nearly limitless.

 

If you don't like how the vanilla game plays, you want something more or less or different, that's where the modders come in. There's such a diverse, talented group of them that there's a good chance that whatever it is you're looking for is out there. And if it's not, well, maybe mention it, because maybe they just haven't gotten there yet. Or learn to mod, and make the game exactly what you want it to be.

 

This just highlights the importance of a solid base game, that's in a final version. Right now, the game is in too much flux, so the modders spend hours and hours and (God only knows how many more) hours making their version of the game ... and then the guts of the system changes and everything goes flying right out the window. I can only imagine how frustrating that is, because I know how frustrating it is from my side when a favorite mod stops working, and I'm not the one who spent a jillion hours making it in the first place. I'm just grateful that they somehow find the time and energy to remake it all again. And it's probably why some are getting a wee bit cranky.

 

But think how much nicer it will be once the guts of the game are stable, and they can maybe offer some actual modder support (whatever that means.... I'm envisioning vodka and snacks).

 

The more I think of it, the more I realize why Mad Mole and group talk about the first 20 to 30 hours ... because that's about how long a brand new player will most likely play before starting to hear about mods, and multiplayer servers ... and they drift away from the base game into the modded world. And never wander out again ... I think the mod community needs a slogan ... something like "Players check in, but they can never leave." or "Welcome to the dark side." LOL

 

I admit, I was insulted and hurt when that first statement came out ... but then I realized that it's mostly true, and mostly makes sense.

 

Anyway, I haven't had coffee, so I hope this made sense and wasn't snarky.

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More players only mean that you can search the same area in a shorter time but not that more loot will be dropped.

It doesn't matter if 10 players or a singple player loot a house. The loot stays the same.

 

As mentioned before, the best option is to use the zombie respawn in buildings like the Doggos. With "The Huntsman" on 5 you get up to 60 bones out of this building. That's 60 glue / tape. You would have to search a lot of trash cans and garbage bags to find 60 tapes.

 

Okay, I'm glad it works well for you. But you do not speak for everyone, or for every situation.

 

You have 20 to 40 people on a server. There are maybe five or so buildings that generate those bones every five days. Do the math on that and you'll see there's a problem. People have different game situations. Those who are saying it is a problem, whether it fits your definition of problem or not, are not wrong, lazy, or stupid. Just different.

 

You may not mean to sound that way, but you are giving off a definite I'm right and everyone who doesn't agree with me is stupid vibe.

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I don't tend to complain about problems which are obviously temporary, but about what seem to be design decisions. For example the AI will be further refined and it's not something fixed on the spot, so there is no point in complaining about it, other than giving some feedback and be done with it. The horde being optional unfortunately seems like a design decision, since there are always ways to get away and not fight, like vehicles, which don't have any real cons or cost.

 

Excellent post. But I'm not sure the last word is said on vehicles. MM has voiced his idea of buying your way out of horde night with a lot of money and such an idea would be ridiculous when you could just drive around for free. (Like you I see logging off as something outside of the domain of what a game should or can control)

 

Finally, people that are complaining about zombies being XP farms particularly in A17 don't always have such short memories. Even after zombie kill XP was added in A16 ...

 

small correction, zombie xp was in the game at least since A15.

 

Okay, I'm glad it works well for you. But you do not speak for everyone, or for every situation.

 

You have 20 to 40 people on a server.

 

Vanilla game is getting balanced for up to 8 players. If you go outside this range you should expect to have to rebalance through modding.

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)

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I do have my imagination of how I would like some of the game to work but no need to mention it now. My one thing about this game that I hoped to do and the main reason I bought it was for the co-op. My thought was join a server, join a little group and build a base and survive. Everyone contributing (as equally as possible), fighting off wandering hordes that happened by and getting together for the main one to defend the community. When it goes gold I hope that can still happen.

I just wanna play man, I just wanna play.

 

That can, and does, happen now. If you don't want to fight other players at all, look for a server that says it is PvE (player vs environment) ... or there are some that are mixed, with certain areas that are PvP and some that are PvE. It is currently a viable game option, and I like my community server very much.

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Excellent post. But I'm not sure the last word is said on vehicles. MM has voiced his idea of buying your way out of horde night with a lot of money and such an idea would be ridiculous when you could just drive around for free. (Like you I see logging off as something outside of the domain of what a game should or can control)

 

Ah yes had forgotten about that. Well, additionally, for any sum of money to matter, economy must be no less than perfect/robust in my experience. So at the time I thought: "ah just another zero-cost way to avoid the horde besides vehicles and the underground". I haven't used the traders lately, after MM allegedly balanced them, so I wouldn't know if this would be the case at the moment if they added that way of avoiding it.

 

small correction, zombie xp was in the game at least since A15.

 

You are correct, in fact I found a thread of mine complaining about this back in 2016 >.< https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?53718-Zombies-reward-too-much-xp

Edited by RestInPieces (see edit history)

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Ah yes had forgotten about that. Well, additionally, for any sum of money to matter, economy must be no less perfect/robust in my experience. So at the time I thought: "ah just another zero-cost way to avoid the horde besides vehicles and the underground". I haven't used the traders lately, after MM allegedly balanced them, so I wouldn't know if this is the case at the moment.

 

 

 

You are correct, in fact I found a thread of mine complaining about this back in 2016 >.< https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?53718-Zombies-reward-too-much-xp

 

As far as I can remember (and going back into my modding history till 13.8) zombies have always awarded xp for being killed by the player. But also since then and before, crafting and/or action xp, especially crafting, overshadowed kill xp greatly. A17 is probably one of the first where kill xp greatly overshadows crafting xp and only harvesting xp at some stage becomes just as great.

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As far as I can remember (and going back into my modding history till 13.8) zombies have always awarded xp for being killed by the player. But also since then and before, crafting and/or action xp, especially crafting, overshadowed kill xp greatly. A17 is probably one of the first where kill xp greatly overshadows crafting xp and only harvesting xp at some stage becomes just as great.

 

From what I remember and see in that thread I linked, it didn't prior to A15. But even if there was some minor kill exp before then, it was greatly overshadowed, as you say, by the minor action xp, so it doesn't matter anyway. What matters is that by after making it substantial, it became beneficial to actively hunt zombies VS normally getting action xp from various other activities.

PS: The way they dish out the updates (huge, not modular, many different changes at once) is really impractical when it comes to giving/getting feedback, among everything else.

Edited by RestInPieces (see edit history)

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I do have my imagination of how I would like some of the game to work but no need to mention it now. My one thing about this game that I hoped to do and the main reason I bought it was for the co-op. My thought was join a server, join a little group and build a base and survive. Everyone contributing (as equally as possible), fighting off wandering hordes that happened by and getting together for the main one to defend the community. When it goes gold I hope that can still happen.

I just wanna play man, I just wanna play.

 

My experience is that co-op playing makes the game stay interesting for much longer. If you couldn't interest friends to play the game you could try to ask around on the forum for likeminded individuals.

 

Then either find a good PvE server, rent a managed server or even set up one yourself on a barebones server. The last two possibilites mean a lot more peace and freedom as you can set up options and mods like you want it but needs some computer fu.

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actually the flu-zombie pandemic appened after ww3 according to the little lore provided

so the wasteland make perfect sense

 

Now its only missing aliens and wizards and time travel, and we have a nice jambalaya of fiction tropes.

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Now its only missing aliens and wizards and time travel, and we have a nice jambalaya of fiction tropes.

 

haha.

I actually think the wastelands would work just fine, not as a full biome though, only for hubs of cities. If they could make a city hub fully wastelands that would be great imo, and not just smatterings of wasteland here or there throughout the city, but the whole hub size being fully wastelands.

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Three ways to help with the blood moon avoidance problem:

1. Give each player their own 7-day horde. They have to be on the server for 7 days(or whatever the setting is) in between each one.

2. Every horde zombie that they don't kill will come back the next night and still be feral and have x-ray vision.

3. Rare zombie that can outrun the 4x4 but only appears if you've skipped a few horde nights.

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That can, and does, happen now. If you don't want to fight other players at all, look for a server that says it is PvE (player vs environment) ... or there are some that are mixed, with certain areas that are PvP and some that are PvE. It is currently a viable game option, and I like my community server very much.

 

I actually have done it. I have been on PVE servers exclusively (1 really, for years) and at first we used to make a little community and defend it on horde nights. Sadly it has gotten to where little groups of 2 or 3 people make a base way off miles from anyone. I am more a "everyone get together for mutal protection" kind of person. That said I am also never the person to bring it up in game or flat out ask to join a group. Am same irl, I think if they wanted me to join they would have asked.

 

My experience is that co-op playing makes the game stay interesting for much longer. If you couldn't interest friends to play the game you could try to ask around on the forum for likeminded individuals.

 

Then either find a good PvE server, rent a managed server or even set up one yourself on a barebones server. The last two possibilites mean a lot more peace and freedom as you can set up options and mods like you want it but needs some computer fu.

 

Yeah I bought this game (my first since my early computer years and the only reason I joined steam) for that very reason.

From a small (very) community on a tiny island so not many people I know irl play games. I do have my own little home server I use for testing and my neices son has played on it a couple of times for a few hours but he is more into games like fortnite. Am not even sure how it would handle with my internet with 4 or more players (300 dl, 10? ul)

For now I play mostly on my server testing maps and never going past day 12 or so.

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Am not even sure how it would handle with my internet with 4 or more players (300 dl, 10? ul)

For now I play mostly on my server testing maps and never going past day 12 or so.

 

I tried a server from home with asymmetrical dl/ul and it didn't work (I can't tell you exact numbers but what you can get in a city in Germany, so shouldn't be the worst). Next I rented a managed 7 days server, but the managing was atrocious (managing support tickets took more time than doing management myself as I found out). Finally rented an unmanaged (virtual) server and finally everything works as expected.

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)

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^^ This has potential. This would add a good gameplay dyanmic. Have a gas station that you had to power on a special generator that makes a ton of noise and pulls in a giant horde, but gives a descent amount of gas (but you have to pump it into a container).

 

Or some other similar mechanic for mining ores / lumbermill.

 

Couple that with an easy way to modify below ground resources so there is a lot less of them and you could really change the game dynamic.

 

Basically a quest to a POI that gives you an event to earn extra gas.

 

 

I like this idea, except for the nerfing the other play style to force people to do the event.

 

It should be optional and expand things you can do, not add more rails to force it to happen.

 

Hundreds of hours on 17.2 - never once found the chassis for ANY vehicle whatsoever. Not once. Found parts. Only twice mind you and never in a situation where I actually got to use those parts. Even if it is on the loot list somewhere, that does not constitute you being able to assemble it.

 

I have found them fairly often with a high level of lucky looter.

I have probably 2 of each type of vehicle chassis sitting in a box at my base.

They do exist and they do drop, albeit rarely.

Edited by Grue (see edit history)

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...

Except if you find a better solution to go about it.

 

There are quite a few discussions going on in here at the same time, and they are all good. Most of them are speculation based on features the game has currently and what has been reported to come. This issue of avoidable horde nights should continue for a while I think. I truly feel it is a game-breaking problem.

 

Because of vehicles (not going to include player speed vs zombie speed because it's bugged), and because of multiplayer coop, horde nights are avoidable. Because of the removal of most zombie loot, not avoiding horde night becomes an optional and expensive hobby.

 

There really needs to be something in the game that makes defending some kind of base necessary on horde night. A possible solution that I suggested before was that everybody has a single main land claim block. You receive a skill point if you and your placed main land claim block survive the entire duration of a horde night. I also said that the player would have to be within a certain radius of their LCB for the duration and that zombie AI could be extended to also attack LCBs.

 

How this would play out in multi-player is if you log out your LCB becomes your replacement. The zombies simply go for that instead of you until it is destroyed. If you don't have one placed, well then no skill point reward anyway. If you have a team in MP, and for some reason they are playing and you cannot, your team just has to defend your LCB as well as their own. So, in team play, it will be good for everybody to position their LCBs in the base carefully so that all of them can be defended equally.

 

How this plays out with vehicles is the same as it would play out when players scatter in the map on horde night... and again the main LCBs kinda become player entities themselves. You drive away from your base far enough, zombies will be on you, but the LCBs are going to get attacked as well.

 

Now, this idea is using skill points as a reward and using LCBs. These things are just ideas, I'm just presenting the concept as a solution. I chose LCBs because they really don't have a purpose in Single Player. I refer to "main" LCB because only the first one placed by a player should be the special one. I chose skill points as rewards because right now, they are the driving force to do anything in the game. Later, when maxed on skill, the reward could change to something else... perhaps dukes, or perhaps it causes a special air drop the next day with things you actually need because of horde night, such as ammo.

 

EDIT: More opportunity for fun...

In MP, let's say you die or you lost your LCB to the horde. You won't be getting your skill point, but you could take this as the opportune moment to strike against an enemy base. While they are fighting the horde, perhaps you could get in, find their LCBs and ruin their day.

Edited by AtomicUs5000
typos (see edit history)

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There are quite a few discussions going on in here at the same time, and they are all good. Most of them are speculation based on features the game has currently and what has been reported to come. This issue of avoidable horde nights should continue for a while I think. I truly feel it is a game-breaking problem.

 

Because of vehicles (not going to include player speed vs zombie speed because it's bugged), and because of multiplayer coop, horde nights are avoidable. Because of the removal of most zombie loot, not avoiding horde night becomes an optional and expensive hobby.

 

There really needs to be something in the game that makes defending some kind of base necessary on horde night. A possible solution that I suggested before was that everybody has a single main land claim block. You receive a skill point if you and your placed main land claim block survive the entire duration of a horde night. I also said that the player would have to be within a certain radius of their LCB for the duration and that zombie AI could be extended to also attack LCBs.

 

How this would play out in multi-player is if you log out your LCB becomes your replacement. The zombies simply go for that instead until it is destroyed. If you don't have one placed, well then no skill point reward anyway. If you have a team in MP, and for some reason they are playing and you cannot, your team just has to defend your LCB as well as their own. So, in team play, it will be good for everybody to position their LCBs in the base carefully.

 

How this plays out with vehicles is the same as it would play out when players scatter in the map on horde night... and again the main LCBs kinda become player entities themselves. You drive away from your base far enough, zombies will be on you, but the LCBs are going to get attacked as well.

 

Now, this idea is using skill points as a reward and using LCBs. These things are just ideas, I'm just presenting the concept as a solution. I chose LCBs because they really don't have a purpose in Single Player. I refer to "main" LCB because only the first one placed by a player should be the special one. I chose skill points as rewards because right now, they are the driving force to do anything in the game. Later, when maxed on skill, the reward to change to something else... perhaps dukes, or perhaps it causes a special air drop the next day.

 

I really wish TFP see it as an issue in the first place...

 

Before someone pops up and says that "chunk loading won't let this work so everything Atomic says is invalid" plus other possible loopholes like "you can place the block in a place that is impossible to destroy" etc, there are always ways to close these loopholes plus the general concept of having to defend something is what really matters and it is a good concept. I was thinking of something similar at first but tend to prefer the one below.

 

Could make the nights similar to

. In Darkwood's nights, electricity/engines fail from time to time. Banshees' scream (like the one in the video) can also disable them for a while. That would make vehicles unreliable during a horde night. As a bonus it would add that extra bit of atmosphere and difficulty (a different kind of difficulty than the one of these green bullet sponges) by periodically disabling your electrical defenses and lights. I think this along with a meaningful death penalty, would have a good effect. It IS a bit cheesy though.

 

Anyway, for starters let's hope that nightmare speed will at least easily surpass the current player's sprint speed after fix.

Edited by RestInPieces (see edit history)

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I really wish TFP see it as an issue in the first place...

 

Before someone pops up and says that "chunk loading won't let this work so everything Atomic says is invalid" plus other possible loopholes like "you can place the block in a place that is impossible to destroy" etc, there are always ways to close these loopholes plus the general concept of having to defend something is what really matters and it is a good concept. I was thinking of something similar at first but tend to prefer the one below.

 

Could make the nights similar to

. In Darkwood's nights, electricity/engines fail from time to time. Banshees' scream (like the one in the video) can also disable them for a while. That would make vehicles unreliable during a horde night. As a bonus it would add that extra bit of atmosphere and difficulty (a different kind of difficulty than the one of these green bullet sponges) by periodically disabling your electrical defenses and lights. I think this along with a meaningful death penalty, would have a good effect. It IS a bit cheesy though.

 

Anyway, for starters let's hope that nightmare speed will at least easily surpass the current player's sprint speed after fix.

 

By all means, if there are some other more creative ideas to solve the problem, they should be presented. My example is what I thought would be the easiest to implement, using mechanics that somewhat already exist and resources that definitely already exist. Indeed, what is important here is that the problem is addressed by the devs. I would be happy just knowing that they see this problem and are going to find some way to remedy it. Like my example, whatever is presented as a solution will probably have some other issues to consider, but that's always expected in developing any software, not just games.

 

BTW... Love the concept of a zombie being the equivalent of an EMP bomb. An evolved screamer perhaps.

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Madmole has requested a few times now that LBD discussion be taken elsewhere. I am now enforcing that. There is a thread for LBD discussion in general discussions. Please refrain from bringing it up here in this thread. Thank you.

 

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?116806-LBD-talk-is-RIGHT-HERE

Edited by Roland (see edit history)

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Hello I'm playing the latest version with a controller. Unlike previous versions I am having a very hard time moving and fighting. It doesn't feel like a lag issue but at times I can't always rotate on the first stick movement. Looking down to pick something up is a chore to target the object and grab it. Is there something I can do to improve this issue.

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a crowd of mooing zombies to cheer me on.

 

This ... this needs to happen. Some where, some how, only on a day-7 blood moon where you're carrying 13 boiled meat, I don't care how you hide the easter egg.

 

I want to believe.

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There really needs to be something in the game that makes defending some kind of base necessary on horde night. A possible solution that I suggested before was that everybody has a single main land claim block. You receive a skill point if you and your placed main land claim block survive the entire duration of a horde night. I also said that the player would have to be within a certain radius of their LCB for the duration and that zombie AI could be extended to also attack LCBs.

 

How this would play out in multi-player is if you log out your LCB becomes your replacement. The zombies simply go for that instead of you until it is destroyed. If you don't have one placed, well then no skill point reward anyway. If you have a team in MP, and for some reason they are playing and you cannot, your team just has to defend your LCB as well as their own. So, in team play, it will be good for everybody to position their LCBs in the base carefully so that all of them can be defended equally.

 

How this plays out with vehicles is the same as it would play out when players scatter in the map on horde night... and again the main LCBs kinda become player entities themselves. You drive away from your base far enough, zombies will be on you, but the LCBs are going to get attacked as well.

 

Now, this idea is using skill points as a reward and using LCBs. These things are just ideas, I'm just presenting the concept as a solution. I chose LCBs because they really don't have a purpose in Single Player. I refer to "main" LCB because only the first one placed by a player should be the special one. I chose skill points as rewards because right now, they are the driving force to do anything in the game. Later, when maxed on skill, the reward could change to something else... perhaps dukes, or perhaps it causes a special air drop the next day with things you actually need because of horde night, such as ammo.

 

Wouldn't using the active bed be a better solution?

LCB have a min distance that they can be placed from one another don't they, the placement mechanic would have to change to allow this. Also not everyone plays with an active LCB but most people will have an active bed.

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Wouldn't using the active bed be a better solution?

LCB have a min distance that they can be placed from one another don't they, the placement mechanic would have to change to allow this. Also not everyone plays with an active LCB but most people will have an active bed.

 

Sure. I don't see why not. The item used really isn't important.

If players knew about the importance of the LCB, they would use it though... hypothetically.

Right now, I just hope the devs see the issue at hand. Even if they just want to ignore it for the game, that's cool but I would hope for more modding possibilities to remedy the problem.

 

If things ever become available to make this a mod and the horde night issue is still at large, I would probably start work on a mod immediately. In doing so, I would do whatever worked with what was available to be modded. If more LCB options opened up, I could go that way. A bed is another good possibility if it was possible to assign more functionality to it. However, a special block so I had more control and less interaction with other mods is likely the best choice. I would try think of a reason why the zombies hate this block/item as well, but this isn't something I am going to bother thinking about right now.

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Can vultures carry dogs in this version? Or was that for a future build? That and climbing zombies again. I know a base wrecker is coming.

 

I kinda like how the spider zombie is a jumper now and think he should stay that way. Add the climbing ability to another zombie. The more unique zombies we get the better. Have bears climb also, that would be scary as hell for sure.

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