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madmole

Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!  

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  1. 1. Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

    • A18 Stable is Out!
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I like Roland's no XP idea. The only thing I fear from the idea of removing XP completely is what that would mean for horde night.

Without much loot reward, the only incentive of defending a base on horde night is if you have built it in such a way that you can harvest maximum XP. Otherwise, it's just a waste of resources.

 

There are other incentives but they have to do with role-playing and enjoying tower defense for its own sake.... ;)

 

 

Which is why 0xp is best as a mod. Incentives outside the realm of loot and xp are going to be for a niche crowd at best.

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Game Change

 

That is the real Game rigth now.

Or a POI thats produces x amount of fuel per day. You need to defend It by the way. This are dinamic objetives.optional if you want more fuel

sorry for the inglish.

 

^^ This has potential. This would add a good gameplay dyanmic. Have a gas station that you had to power on a special generator that makes a ton of noise and pulls in a giant horde, but gives a descent amount of gas (but you have to pump it into a container).

 

Or some other similar mechanic for mining ores / lumbermill.

 

Couple that with an easy way to modify below ground resources so there is a lot less of them and you could really change the game dynamic.

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There are other incentives but they have to do with role-playing and enjoying tower defense for its own sake.... ;)

 

 

Which is why 0xp is best as a mod. Incentives outside the realm of loot and xp are going to be for a niche crowd at best.

 

Right. I do think this is a fundamental flaw in the game right now, though. Imagination can only carry you so far. Another thing is that it can be enjoyable just to watch how they behave and destroy, but that only carries so far too. Not that I want the game to have an end to it, but if it was required to put yourself through non-rewarding horde nights in order to reach some end, that would be enough incentive.

So yeah, I like the skill points for defending your landclaim block on horde night better than all of these.

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I like Roland's no XP idea. The only thing I fear from the idea of removing XP completely is what that would mean for horde night.

Without much loot reward, the only incentive of defending a base on horde night is if you have built it in such a way that you can harvest maximum XP. Otherwise, it's just a waste of resources.

 

A solution might be to award skill points only after horde nights, and only if you remain within some radius of your main landclaim block for the duration of the blood moon.

 

I am honestly saddened by the fact that it has come to this. What *is* the horde night? An event that spawns a bunch of zombies which you farm if you feel like it? Well, unfortunately, that's exactly what it is. It is optional. And since it's optional, people feel like they need incentives to participate, else there is no point to it and as you said "it's a waste". One of the reasons why people also complained about decreased loot.

 

I wonder if TFP envisioned it like that or just were misguided by the "allowing people to do anything they want" crowd, which later also complains about the game becoming arcade-y, boring, grindy etc. But more importantly, If we want to put the tower defense elements to good use, the horde should be something which you have to defend against. Having to defend yourself and your base is the best incentive. Hopefully, when the speed bug is fixed, barricading will become a must with the nightmare speed setting. And when they add a DP severity option, I will at last be able to fully enjoy the game and feel that what I am doing has some practical meaning to it.

 

Right. I do think this is a fundamental flaw in the game right now, though

Criminally fundamental flaw if I may add.

Edited by RestInPieces (see edit history)
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I am honestly saddened by the fact that it has come to this. What *is* the horde night? An event that spawns a bunch of zombies which you farm if you feel like it? Well, unfortunately, that's exactly what it is. It is optional. And since it's optional, people feel like they need incentives to participate, else there is no point to it and as you said "it's a waste". One of the reasons why people also complained about decreased loot.

 

I wonder if TFP envisioned it like that or just were misguided by the "allowing people to do anything they want" crowd, which later also complains about the game becoming arcade-y, boring, grindy etc. But more importantly, If we want to put the tower defense elements to good use, the horde should be something which you have to defend against. Defending yourself and your base is the best incentive. Hopefully, when the speed bug is fixed, barricading will become a must with the nightmare speed setting.

 

Yes! I agree it should be something you must participate in.

Just to be clear. I do participate in it. I do pretend like I have to do it. I also pretend that the AI can't be manipulated so easily... but every time I do I question myself. It really isn't worth it.

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Yes! I agree it should be something you must participate in.

Just to be clear. I do participate in it. I do pretend like I have to do it. I also pretend that the AI can't be manipulated so easily... but every time I do I question myself. It really isn't worth it.

 

Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. Pretending sucks...

I can ignore any AI exploits that you can't do by mistake and you have to do something specific, but I can't ignore the fact that I build defenses and struggle against the horde when I could just... walk/sprint away. It feels downright silly.

Edited by RestInPieces (see edit history)

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I just start a new game when AI get the point where I can completely avoid dealing with the horde.

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I just start a new game when AI get the point where I can completely avoid dealing with the horde.

 

Not sure what you mean, you never have to fight the horde or build defenses if you don't want to. Never mind AI, it's a WIP and it's complex. You can easily get away for example by just sprinting or using a vehicle (which hardly costs more than running). And if you do die and keep dying... so what, besides getting a slight, sometimes negligible, penalty? I am just waiting for the options.

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In 17.2, "creating vehicles", as the post stated, is not gated at all other than requiring a workbench.

 

Crafting all the parts yourself and at will is gated by perks which is convenient but not required to build a vehicle.

 

 

Half and half, the perk itself, allows you to CRAFT the vehicle parts but, you no longer actually need the perk to actually assemble a vehicle. So if you find/ loot vehicle parts and have a workbench you can indeed assemble it. The vehicle parts, if you want to craft them, are level gated behind the perk.

 

Hundreds of hours on 17.2 - never once found the chassis for ANY vehicle whatsoever. Not once. Found parts. Only twice mind you and never in a situation where I actually got to use those parts. Even if it is on the loot list somewhere, that does not constitute you being able to assemble it.

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built bikes from found parts several times and a minibike. found some bits for others but not all yet.

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MM earned a bunch of XP flipping houses and invested that into the Game Design perk.

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Hundreds of hours on 17.2 - never once found the chassis for ANY vehicle whatsoever. Not once. Found parts. Only twice mind you and never in a situation where I actually got to use those parts. Even if it is on the loot list somewhere, that does not constitute you being able to assemble it.

 

Tip: Pass-n-Gas stations usually have boxes in them. Use an axe, and then you can loot them. Ok, yes... it isn't as simple as perking into "Grease Monkey" but if one doesn't want to perk into it. They do still have an alternate way of obtaining a vehicle. Traders I've found have minibike chassis and handlebars usually. It all depends on the player of course whether or not, they want to rely on looting to obtain a vehicle or using perk points into that particular skill. You do bring up a good point, either I can choose to rely on looting to eventually find a chasiss or go to a trader or perk into that skill and make one myself without having to rely on looting.

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I'm starting to think that you're experiencing some kind of bug. Those textures are already accessible...

 

dA1CdUA.jpg

 

I would really like to get the bookshelf pattern back, I really miss that one for organizing my shelves that hold books and such.

 

BTW, someone please tell me they are getting rid of those retarded perk magazines?

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I do have my imagination of how I would like some of the game to work but no need to mention it now. My one thing about this game that I hoped to do and the main reason I bought it was for the co-op. My thought was join a server, join a little group and build a base and survive. Everyone contributing (as equally as possible), fighting off wandering hordes that happened by and getting together for the main one to defend the community. When it goes gold I hope that can still happen.

I just wanna play man, I just wanna play.

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I am honestly saddened by the fact that it has come to this. What *is* the horde night? An event that spawns a bunch of zombies which you farm if you feel like it? Well, unfortunately, that's exactly what it is. It is optional.

 

I have no idea what you're talking about. Horde night in A17 is far, far less "optional" than it was in A16.

 

In A16 you could just go underground and avoid the horde altogether. (I did this pretty consistently.) Now that zombies can dig, you can't do that any more. You have to fight the horde.

 

Yes, there are ways to build a horde base that cheeses the AI and makes fighting the horde much easier. But that existed in A16 too, and it's not any easier in A17 (different sure, but not easier).

 

Also - not directed at you - but I feel the people who are complaining that zombies are XP farms, have too short memories to remember that zombies in A16 and earlier were mainly loot farms. Personally I think removing zombie loot in A17 was a step in the right direction.

 

Now, I do believe the game is still unbalanced, and that the XP from zombie kills still needs to be nerfed somewhat (yes, in A17.2 too, though it was worse in earlier alphas). But that doesn't mean the game is moving in the wrong direction.

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faatal has posted that there was a bug that prevented zombies and animals from moving as fast as they should and he has fixed it. Not sure if that will be in 17.3 but for sure 18

 

Great! Doesn't matter if it's 17.3 or 18, since both will come out within the next two months, right?

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..., the horde should be something which you have to defend against. .... [/b]

 

I see players on servers log off ALL the time when bloodmoon starts. You'll never prevent that from happening. So wishfull thinking, only with SP you already have to face bloodmoon.

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A18 is looking to taste like good old 7 Days again...

 

But hunger continues as week after week goes by and we now into the third(ish) month since last major update ?

 

I thought the process of updating from here on wards was going to be swifter & easier etc. I can see a lot of art and coding being done (probably yet to be done as well) can not help thinking we looking at least 6 months till A18 hits us which feels agonising considering the year(and over?) we waited for A17 to land.

 

Yep. A18 was going to be released much faster. In the first half of 2019...

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I see players on servers log off ALL the time when bloodmoon starts. You'll never prevent that from happening. So wishfull thinking, only with SP you already have to face bloodmoon.

 

Good point. Even more of a reason to lean towards a reward for surviving horde night. If that reward is important enough to where it is necessary, or at least very important to progress, then nobody will be logging off.

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I think it would be really cool if TFP could add a swamp biome, with things like moss-covered trees and overgrown decrepit mansions. And of course, gators.

 

And maybe we could get swamp zombies, living skeletons dripping with old flesh and rotted plants, and that's always cool.

 

And maybe a theme song:

 

 

Basically, drop the wasteland and burned forest biomes, and add two other "normal" biomes to the game.

Next to swamps I could also image biomes such as dunes + white sand beaches, "deep forest" with thicker vegetation and some darker, foggy ambience, a savanna type biome...

 

These are great ideas. I wish you guys had seen my thread about other biomes a while back

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?109060-Other-biomes

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My main grieve with the wasteland and burned forest biomes: they make absolutely no sense, and additionally have this annoying atmospheric fog effect.

 

Wasteland looks like an idea straight copied from Fallout (there it makes sense as the games name implies)

In 7DtD, there was some kind of biological outbreak. Where in world does the (nuclear) destruction come from?

Its a "Walking Dead" world, not a "Nuclear War" world.

 

The burned forest would make sense if it does not smolder anymore. Currently its displayed as a burned forest right after a fire, perpetually. It just makes no sense outside an actual dynamic forest-fire scenario.

 

Since there are technical limitations on how many biomes can be in the game, I would throw those two out and use more interesting and FITTING biomes for this worlds scenario.

Edited by Damocles (see edit history)

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Since there are technical limitations on how many biomes can be in the game, I would throw those two out and use more interesting and FITTING biomes for this worlds scenario.

 

Wasteland makes sense dude, there are hazmat suits, radiaton and navezgane contains a city framework in a radiated zone.

 

Which says they have no intention of dropping wastelands. I think adding a new biome is a good idea, but removing these two is just bad. This game has no real story yet, how do you assume there was no nuclear explosion involved ? Maybe they just fought zombies by nuking infected countrys.

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Ravenhearst is good because it has more content, but i don't think i really care for a line of text appearing at the bottom screen, which means i just won a 0.5 bonus efficiency. I mean it's ok to have it, but is it a must-have ? I don't think so.

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Heh. I'm there part time (I have a real job, too. =) and I'm not complaining.

It's certainly interesting because "design, technical design, game data and balancing" has me all over the place.

100+ book perks + the research / technical design to be able to task programmers with the required code to make it possible to do all the effects can be a daunting task until you break it down into manageable parts and a workflow.

If it was easy everyone would do it, right? ;)

 

There are mathy parts like this that some people find off-putting but you need something like that or it would have been impossible to do any gamestaged spawns. Pre-generating this keeps the actual spawning code "simple" (there are plenty of gotchas as is) and separates the game data from the code so it can be changed (or modded) easily.

 

You should ask the coders if maybe the entitygroups.xml groups can work the same way as loot.xml or the rwgmixer.xml. Will save you a ton of mathy stuff and a ton of xml code if groups can list other groups so code does not need to be replicated. And while you are at it, maybe ask for the possibilty of an emtpy list so we can get rid of the dummy spawns as well. :)

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Wasteland looks like an idea straight copied from Fallout (there it makes sense as the games name implies)

In 7DtD, there was some kind of biological outbreak. Where in world does the (nuclear) destruction come from?

Its a "Walking Dead" world, not a "Nuclear War" world.

actually the flu-zombie pandemic appened after ww3 according to the little lore provided

so the wasteland make perfect sense

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